2016-2017 Season

[Madman81]

Lol. Why would you even try to engage in a conversation with someone like that? Maybe just ignore them instead?

...that was the point

 

[jacobkdoyle]

actually do neither of those things and instead just appreciate the absurdity for its entertainment value while not engaging at all or only engaging on your own terms.

Sad that competing for AAC Championships and having high standards for Cincinnati basketball is so absurd to you that it's laughable.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

...that was the point

Except you obviously don't ignore it.

 

[L-T]

The last time I looked, the guy holding the keys to the 2016/2017 season is Mick Cronin, so any discussion of the head coach and his part of the 2016/2017 season is "on topic".

The posters who only show up to talk about other posters are definitely not on topic, and if you look at their posting history in this thread, you'll see that they've added absolutely nothing to the thread other than those aforementioned random comments..

 

[Madman81]

i never said anything was laughable.

i've engaged on my terms and demonstrated where i think arguments and assumptions are flawed.

at this point i just appreciate how consistently certain folks shout the same shit repeatedly into the abyss. it is entertaining to me, regardless of how dumb i think the content is...just like situations with those folks with bull horns.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Depending on which poll you look at, we're anywhere from the 8th or 9th to 17th or 18th greatest basketball program of all time. During the Cronin era, we're not top 30 in anything.....results, ranking, recruiting, attendance,....anything. 3 of our last 4 tournament seeds have been 8 or lower. Last year we were a 9 seed (one worse than the year before when he wasn't coaching) with supposedly the most experienced, most talented, deepest rosters that he ever had.

He has not been able to keep this program anywhere near historical levels and yes.....because of that, he has been very average. The 2016/2017 season has what appears to be a very strong starting 5 and a lot of questions on the bench. Our recruiting class is nowhere on the radar in the top 35, so I guess we shouldn't expect much difference in how this season is going to play out. Many of us just use the law of averages to assume/hope that this season will be different. That is where I stand. There are some teams that do quite well with a very thin bench and the regulars playing a lot of minutes. I hope we're one of those teams, or I also hope that these bench guys finally live up to expectations and perform well. 23 wins won't cut it for me. These two years (last year and this one) were supposed to be when we took that next step under Cronin. Last year was a phenomenal disappointment. This is the last season with Caupain and KJ. I'm not going to be stupid and talk about Elite 8 again, but we have enough talent to reach the Sweet 16. We can also win this conference. But obviously, it all depends on the coaching.

L-T I'm not going to compare era's or debate the changes in college athletics that impacted our program. We have beat that to death. Also we are probably the only two people posting here that remember the Jucker years. Our program has not come close to his results. Your certainly entitled to your opinion and expectations. I would never tell a person how to spend his time or money. I enjoy our program and think the coach does a fine job. I hope we reach your level of expectations because if we do it will make me happier then if he just reaches mine. Either way I am more then satisfied with our team and Coach. Winning the conference depends a lot more then just coaching. It requires a buy in from everyone. Staff and Players!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

i never said anything was laughable.

i've engaged on my terms and demonstrated where i think arguments and assumptions are flawed.

at this point i just appreciate how consistently certain folks shout the same shit repeatedly into the abyss. it is entertaining to me, regardless of how dumb i think the content is...just like situations with those folks with bull horns.

Ok. Well if you have no interest in contributing to the discussion, then maybe keep it to yourself. Only posting to comment on other posters throws the thread off topic.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

L-T I'm not going to compare era's or debate the changes in college athletics that impacted our program. We have beat that to death. Also we are probably the only two people posting here that remember the Jucker years. Our program has not come close to his results. Your certainly entitled to your opinion and expectations. I would never tell a person how to spend his time or money. I enjoy our program and think the coach does a fine job. I hope we reach your level of expectations because if we do it will make me happier then if he just reaches mine. Either way I am more then satisfied with our team and Coach. Winning the conference depends a lot more then just coaching. It requires a buy in from everyone. Staff and Players!

Hopefully Caupain hears that clock ticking. It goes by fast. Take advantage every day.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Jake all topics get back to the same thing. A few don't enjoy the program as it is being directed by our Coach. Certainly they have a right to their opinion. I hope we have a year that can unite our fan base but if not I still enjoy our team.

 

[L-T]

L-T I'm not going to compare era's or debate the changes in college athletics that impacted our program. We have beat that to death. Also we are probably the only two people posting here that remember the Jucker years. Our program has not come close to his results. Your certainly entitled to your opinion and expectations. I would never tell a person how to spend his time or money. I enjoy our program and think the coach does a fine job. I hope we reach your level of expectations because if we do it will make me happier then if he just reaches mine. Either way I am more then satisfied with our team and Coach. Winning the conference depends a lot more then just coaching. It requires a buy in from everyone. Staff and Players!

....and buy in from a coach who plays to win rather than one who plays not to lose. We have 10 years to prove that his defensive philosophy and slow-down approach gets you no more than just respectability. It doesn't get you recruits. It doesn't get you success in the postseason. It hasn't gotten us championships. It doesn't attract fans. Any discussion of how 2016/2017 plays out begins and ends with this coach and how he will coach this team. If it's status quo, this season will be no different than others. It's a key point in any discussion of this program and any discussion of an upcoming season. Even discussing players is almost irrelevant. Is he going to let them play or not?

 

[L-T]

Jake all topics get back to the same thing. A few don't enjoy the program as it is being directed by our Coach. Certainly they have a right to their opinion. I hope we have a year that can unite our fan base but if not I still enjoy our team.

....so wrong.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

....so wrong.

to each his own L-T

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Hopefully Caupain hears that clock ticking. It goes by fast. Take advantage every day.

Jake we lost a bunch of heartbreakers last year. I really don't think I have ever seen a team lose in the fashion we did. Especially in big games. I hope things even out this year for the kids on the team. I think they work hard and deserve some bounces go in there direction. Your right 4 years go fast.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jake we lost a bunch of heartbreakers last year. I really don't think I have ever seen a team lose in the fashion we did. Especially in big games. I hope things even out this year for the kids on the team. I think they work hard and deserve some bounces go in there direction. Your right 4 years go fast.

Gotta make the most of our limited possessions and take the right shots. Be smart with the clock and no more long 2s.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Shaq was playing very good basketball until his injury. Like most freshmen, Evans gained consistency as the year went along. At the beginning of the year, Shaq was the better choice. By the end, it would have been interesting to see if Shaq had stayed healthy. As a result, it didn't matter.

Thomas had been here for 4 years and did nothing but show he couldn't consistently be counted on. Period. Sure he had some decent games, but they'd always be followed up by going 3 games without making a shot. Evans obviously is better, and obviously had the higher ceiling. Kenyon Martin could see it after just a few days with the team. I'd never wish injury on anyone, but once Thomas went down, we really got to see Evans blossom when no one was in his way. It was a blessing in disguise. It took Evans no time at all to show that he was better than Thomas ever was.

I fear the same will be true with Johnson and Cumberland this year. We know what Kevin Johnson is...and we almost certainly know what Cumberland will be. And what that is, is a player who shouldn't be playing second fiddle to a guy like Johnson. That's just the truth. I root for Kevin Johnson. He's a good kid by all accounts, hard worker, the whole bit...but at this level that shouldn't mean you get to play over someone who can help the team on the floor more than you can. Let's be honest about this. We all hope Johnson can breakout or whatever, but he's played almost 100 games at UC, and like Shaq Thomas, has shown that he simply can't be counted on consistently. And that's ok. He can still get on the floor and have a role on the team, but it isn't fair to anyone to have the better prospect playing behind him. I've said before, and I'll continue to say it, if we want to do anything in the postseason this upcoming year, it is imperative that Jarron Cumberland be a main contributor. In order for him to get there, he needs the opportunity from season start to season end. No way you can convince that isn't what's best for the Cincinnati Bearcats. Unless Kevin Johnson miraculously turns into an All-League player, his role should stay the same as it was last year. Where his minutes depend on specific game situations and how he happens to be playing that night. Cumberland should be the go-to-guy out of the 2 and I don't think it is even close. If Cronin learned anything last year (or with Caupain/Guyn) it should be that the better basketball player in a position battle needs to be given the chance no questions asked. Bc we saw what Evans did with it in just a few games, compared to what Shaq Thomas did in 4.5 years.

 

[waterhead]

Jake we lost a bunch of heartbreakers last year. I really don't think I have ever seen a team lose in the fashion we did. Especially in big games. I hope things even out this year for the kids on the team. I think they work hard and deserve some bounces go in there direction. Your right 4 years go fast.

Waite. I think winning those close games come down to a team mentality. Usually that is fed into by a few players and the coaching staff. Mental toughness, heart, and desire. When you have those you win more than 50% of those tight games. Focus increases under pressure and teammates trust each other.

I hope we get more of that from incoming players than we lost. Chemistry cannot be understated!

 

[UCBearcats]

Better all around scorer in Cumberland than Cobb
Brooks will be better on D than Deberry
Washington will be better than Ellis in every possible way
It's time to move on the thought of Shaq actually doing something. Tre Scott will probably give us more.

How do you know Cumberland is going to be a better all around scorer than Cobb in his Freshman year? I'd be willing to bet any amount of money that Cumberland doesn't average as many points as Cobb did last season.

Brooks will be better on D than DeBerry? Based on what? Not saying it won't happen but how do you know this? I'll be surprised if Brooks or Scott play much more than mop up minutes once we get into the meat of our schedule.

Washington better than Ellis in every way possible, doubtful. Again I'd be willing to bet Washington doesn't average more points or rebounds than Ellis did last season.

I agree with you that Shaq was terrible.

In about 3 weeks some of you guys will start sending pictures of KJ in the locker room flexing his muscles and start talking about how much better we're going to be because the guys are hitting the weights hard. Meanwhile nothing changes in terms of leadership, same coach and same staff with less experience than we had before and zero established depth.

For anyone who lives in reality there is no reasonable expectation to believe this team will be better than last year's team.

 

[UCBearcats]

Thomas had been here for 4 years and did nothing but show he couldn't consistently be counted on. Period. Sure he had some decent games, but they'd always be followed up by going 3 games without making a shot. Evans obviously is better, and obviously had the higher ceiling. Kenyon Martin could see it after just a few days with the team. I'd never wish injury on anyone, but once Thomas went down, we really got to see Evans blossom when no one was in his way. It was a blessing in disguise. It took Evans no time at all to show that he was better than Thomas ever was.

I fear the same will be true with Johnson and Cumberland this year. We know what Kevin Johnson is...and we almost certainly know what Cumberland will be. And what that is, is a player who shouldn't be playing second fiddle to a guy like Johnson. That's just the truth. I root for Kevin Johnson. He's a good kid by all accounts, hard worker, the whole bit...but at this level that shouldn't mean you get to play over someone who can help the team on the floor more than you can. Let's be honest about this. We all hope Johnson can breakout or whatever, but he's played almost 100 games at UC, and like Shaq Thomas, has shown that he simply can't be counted on consistently. And that's ok. He can still get on the floor and have a role on the team, but it isn't fair to anyone to have the better prospect playing behind him. I've said before, and I'll continue to say it, if we want to do anything in the postseason this upcoming year, it is imperative that Jarron Cumberland be a main contributor. In order for him to get there, he needs the opportunity from season start to season end. No way you can convince that isn't what's best for the Cincinnati Bearcats. Unless Kevin Johnson miraculously turns into an All-League player, his role should stay the same as it was last year. Where his minutes depend on specific game situations and how he happens to be playing that night. Cumberland should be the go-to-guy out of the 2 and I don't think it is even close. If Cronin learned anything last year (or with Caupain/Guyn) it should be that the better basketball player in a position battle needs to be given the chance no questions asked. Bc we saw what Evans did with it in just a few games, compared to what Shaq Thomas did in 4.5 years.

There is ZERO doubt that KJ will soak up the majority of the minutes in the 2 spot this coming season. Mick has shown time and time again that he values KJ's solid on ball defense much more than he is concerned with how badly KJ hurts the offense when he's on the floor.

I think we'll see a lot of time with TC, KJ and either Cumberland or Evans on the floor together. I think Mick will have a lot of moments this season with both Evans and Cumberland where he sees them make a defensive mistake and immediately yanks them from the game. He's always been quick on the draw to yank a guy over a blown defensive assignment and he's much quicker to pull the trigger on a younger guy than a more experienced player.

Unless Cumberland comes in ready to stand out on defense and learn Mick's systems (which is very possible) I think you'll see him battle for rotation minutes and go through spikes in playing time based on how badly he's currently struggling.

 

[#BearcatNation]

How do you know Cumberland is going to be a better all around scorer than Cobb in his Freshman year? I'd be willing to bet any amount of money that Cumberland doesn't average as many points as Cobb did last season.

Brooks will be better on D than DeBerry? Based on what? Not saying it won't happen but how do you know this? I'll be surprised if Brooks or Scott play much more than mop up minutes once we get into the meat of our schedule.

Washington better than Ellis in every way possible, doubtful. Again I'd be willing to bet Washington doesn't average more points or rebounds than Ellis did last season.

I agree with you that Shaq was terrible.

In about 3 weeks some of you guys will start sending pictures of KJ in the locker room flexing his muscles and start talking about how much better we're going to be because the guys are hitting the weights hard. Meanwhile nothing changes in terms of leadership, same coach and same staff with less experience than we had before and zero established depth.

For anyone who lives in reality there is no reasonable expectation to believe this team will be better than last year's team.

I think many will agree that this past season's team underperformed. It happens. Just like the 2013-14 team overperformed. I think it's fair to think we may be a little better. To assume it may be over-the-top, but my guess right now would be a 7-8 seed in the tournament, so barely better. An overperforming season would be a 5-6 seed. Underperforming would be on the tournament bubble. I think a lot would have to go wrong for UC to miss the tourney.

I haven't seen anyone acting too unrealistic. I find it kind of odd that often in this forum, when you expect more out of the coach, that's fair game, but when you set the bar high for the players, many will say you need to be realistic and calm down. Can't you just want everyone to raise the bar a little?? Unless a season is a complete rebuild, I will always think it's very possible for our team to be a little better than the previous year. Call me delusional if you will.

 

[UCBearcats]

I think many will agree that this past season's team underperformed. It happens. Just like the 2013-14 team overperformed. I think it's fair to think we may be a little better. To assume it may be over-the-top, but my guess right now would be a 7-8 seed in the tournament, so barely better. An overperforming season would be a 5-6 seed. Underperforming would be on the tournament bubble. I think a lot would have to go wrong for UC to miss the tourney.

I haven't seen anyone acting too unrealistic. I find it kind of odd that often in this forum, when you expect more out of the coach, that's fair game, but when you set the bar high for the players, many will say you need to be realistic and calm down. Can't you just want everyone to raise the bar a little?? Unless a season is a complete rebuild, I will always think it's very possible for our team to be a little better than the previous year. Call me delusional if you will.

What I find odd is people expecting more out of players that they've never seen play at this level.

I guarantee that Coach Cronin would 100% disagree with a statement like Washington will be better than Ellis in ever way imaginable.

Based on what? Every off season it's the same people making the same outrageous claims about how much better we're going to be because of players they've never seen play the game. Heck, last season LT even got sucked in and proclaimed Justin Jenifer as the next Isiah Thomas.

FYI, I'm very calm, I like the optimism from most, it's what makes for interesting debates. No one was posting on this thread until a few people started having some doubts about next season. If everyone agreed all the time there wouldn't be very many posts on this board.