2016-2017 Season

[jacobkdoyle]

Yeah way too many what ifs. Obviously health was a big factor no matter how you look at it. Hopefully this year goes smoother in that category.

We have a chance to really do some damage out there. We shouldn't lose any more than 4 games in the AAC realistically. Is our only game against Memphis this year home? SMU is not the same team. Tulsa no. Temple is not beating us twice this year, not a chance. Houston we might split and then UCONN we might split. It was good last year not to have those slipups like we did the year before last to Tulane and ECU.

Hopefully only 2 non conference losses and one of them not being from Xavier. How does 24/25 - 6 sound? 3 or 4 seed? That should be our only expectations if not better with this type of starting 5. Again, as long as injuries do not hurt us.

Sounds good. I'm going to go with 23-8ish, but not playing Michigan could shift the record by a game. I definitely agree and think anything worse than 14-4 in the AAC would be disappointing. I'm going to guess 7 seed. I'd love to be proven wrong on that, but I gotta see it before I believe we can leap up to a 3/4. As many have said, being ranked all year shouldn't be that difficult. The mentality shifts with all of Cronin's teams once they get ranked. He thrives as the underdog, disrespected, chip on the shoulder, back against the wall, little engine that could team. So the attitude of expecting a ranking and still playing hard with it starts with him. Time to play like we belong. With our experience and starting 5 (or 4 + Cumberland) we should play like we're one of the big dogs.

 

[L-T]

L-T he is a very solid player. Maybe not a All American but he is very very good at what Mick ask him to do. One only has to look at the UCONN to know he is very good. That may have been the best game played by a PG at UC in sometime. Like you he reminds me more of a Combo guard then a true point guard. Lack of having such a player is what has forced him to play PG. I love Evans as well. If we have a great season I think he will be a big reason. Clark keeps improving. Not flashy just very steady. Just need KJ to cut down on his TO's.Washington will give us a offensive presence in the post. He also will range away from the hoop and still need to be guarded. If Cumberland gives us anywhere close to what Evans did as a freshman I will be thrilled.

Waite, one only has to look to the first Houston game to possibly feel that he is not so good. 0 for 10 from the floor, 0 for 4 from three, 3 turnovers.......or the Temple game where he was 5-15 from the floor, 0-3 from three, 3 turnovers, 1 assist. You can't pick single games out where he was very good and extrapolate that to the conclusion that he therefore was very good for the whole season. He only shot 37% for the season and 32% from three. He took 80 more shots than the next closest guy on the team, and then 130 and 140 more than the next two. He took 140 and 170 more shots than our two highest percentage shooters on the team who were on the inside and got a lot of their shots on put-backs off of rebounds.

Everyone hated Jenifer because he was always quick to fire up a shot, but we give Caupain a pass when he did the same exact thing. He is the point guard and shouldn't be taking the most shots on the team, especially when his shooting percentage is so low. The fact that the inside guys shot so much less is an indicator that he isn't distributing the ball effectively enough as a point guard. We all know that our team likes to pass around the 3-point line until the clock runs out and then fire up a hurried 3. Caupain epitomizes that. His performance when he holds the ball for the last shot at halftime, and when he does the same thing at the end of games, is atrocious.

But, what do I know? He was 1st team all-league. Go figure.

 

[justinhub2003]

Waite, one only has to look to the first Houston game to possibly feel that he is not so good. 0 for 10 from the floor, 0 for 4 from three, 3 turnovers.......or the Temple game where he was 5-15 from the floor, 0-3 from three, 3 turnovers, 1 assist. You can't pick single games out where he was very good and extrapolate that to the conclusion that he therefore was very good for the whole season. He only shot 37% for the season and 32% from three. He took 80 more shots than the next closest guy on the team, and then 130 and 140 more than the next two. He took 140 and 170 more shots than our two highest percentage shooters on the team who were on the inside and got a lot of their shots on put-backs off of rebounds.

Everyone hated Jenifer because he was always quick to fire up a shot, but we give Caupain a pass when he did the same exact thing. He is the point guard and shouldn't be taking the most shots on the team, especially when his shooting percentage is so low. The fact that the inside guys shot so much less is an indicator that he isn't distributing the ball effectively enough as a point guard. We all know that our team likes to pass around the 3-point line until the clock runs out and then fire up a hurried 3. Caupain epitomizes that. His performance when he holds the ball for the last shot at halftime, and when he does the same thing at the end of games, is atrocious.

But, what do I know? He was 1st team all-league. Go figure.

WHAT???

Caupain had a rough season from the floor but He still made our offense go. Caupain earned his right to take shots, Jenifer hadn't and was still taking them. Jenifer was also fouling 3 point shooters on more than 1 occasion. Compare Caupain's freshman numbers to Jenifer's and you'll find that TC was better by nearly all measures and actually shot LESS than Jenifer did.

But Yea man, if we could just kick TC off the team and start JJ all season, and fired Cronin and hired whatever scrubb that would take this job in this whack ass conference, we;d win it all every single year.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Seems like you're disagreeing just to disagree. Doesn't matter anyway bc the game was in March and we lost. Evans had 26 points and 9 boards though. If everyone is healthy, which again it doesn't really matter bc they weren't, Evans gets less minutes and doesn't have that kind of game.

But I mean if we want to turn back time and reinvent a scenario where Thomas is 100% healthy and Clark isn't, I guess he could've played without impacting Evans. Not sure what the point of that is though.

Not at all Jake.. I don't agree with your statement that having a healthy Shaq would have made things worse.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

WHAT???

Caupain had a rough season from the floor but He still made our offense go. Caupain earned his right to take shots, Jenifer hadn't and was still taking them. Jenifer was also fouling 3 point shooters on more than 1 occasion. Compare Caupain's freshman numbers to Jenifer's and you'll find that TC was better by nearly all measures and actually shot LESS than Jenifer did.

But Yea man, if we could just kick TC off the team and start JJ all season, and fired Cronin and hired whatever scrubb that would take this job in this whack ass conference, we;d win it all every single year.

Much lesser programs have hired very good coaches in this "whack ass conference". In fact, the number of good coaches is the best thing about the conference. Not sure why you assume we could only get a scrub to coach, considering we pay more and have been better historically than these other schools who have actually hired very well. Do you really think that little of our program, that you think it isn't bigger than Coach Cronin?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Not at all Jake.. I don't agree with your statement that having a healthy Shaq would have made things worse.

Haha well I'll say it so you don't have to .

Anyway, I'm glad that Evans has no ceiling and nothing in his way this year. He can really blossom.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, one only has to look to the first Houston game to possibly feel that he is not so good. 0 for 10 from the floor, 0 for 4 from three, 3 turnovers.......or the Temple game where he was 5-15 from the floor, 0-3 from three, 3 turnovers, 1 assist. You can't pick single games out where he was very good and extrapolate that to the conclusion that he therefore was very good for the whole season. He only shot 37% for the season and 32% from three. He took 80 more shots than the next closest guy on the team, and then 130 and 140 more than the next two. He took 140 and 170 more shots than our two highest percentage shooters on the team who were on the inside and got a lot of their shots on put-backs off of rebounds.

Everyone hated Jenifer because he was always quick to fire up a shot, but we give Caupain a pass when he did the same exact thing. He is the point guard and shouldn't be taking the most shots on the team, especially when his shooting percentage is so low. The fact that the inside guys shot so much less is an indicator that he isn't distributing the ball effectively enough as a point guard. We all know that our team likes to pass around the 3-point line until the clock runs out and then fire up a hurried 3. Caupain epitomizes that. His performance when he holds the ball for the last shot at halftime, and when he does the same thing at the end of games, is atrocious.

But, what do I know? He was 1st team all-league. Go figure.

L-T I really don't get the point your trying to make. I said he wasn't a all American but was a solid player. If your arguing that he is not I really don't know what to say. Trying to compare him and JJ, well I am scratching my head. Hoping TC improves his shooting % and continues to take care of the ball and the players he throws the ball to have a bit more success as well.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

L-T I really don't get the point your trying to make. I said he wasn't a all American but was a solid player. If your arguing that he is not I really don't know what to say. Trying to compare him and JJ, well I am scratching my head. Hoping TC improves his shooting % and continues to take care of the ball and the players he throws the ball to have a bit more success as well.

Caupain definitely needs to make more shots. I checked to see if he got a boost in conference play but found that he only shot 40% or better in 6 of 19 games vs AAC competition. That needs to be way better this year. Hopefully Evans and Clark can bear more of the offensive burden and create more for themselves. I know I've beat it to death so I don't want to make it all about pace, but I believe that having more than 20 seconds per possession to run the offense will also help take some of the burden off of Caupain. With other capable players, he shouldn't have to have the ball in his hands as much as the past 2 years.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Haha well I'll say it so you don't have to .

Anyway, I'm glad that Evans has no ceiling and nothing in his way this year. He can really blossom.

I really don't think I've been this excited to see a player as I am Evans. Word is he played hurt last year which impacted his explosiveness. At this point I'll be shocked if he is here 4 years.

 

[L-T]

WHAT???

Caupain had a rough season from the floor but He still made our offense go. Caupain earned his right to take shots, Jenifer hadn't and was still taking them. Jenifer was also fouling 3 point shooters on more than 1 occasion. Compare Caupain's freshman numbers to Jenifer's and you'll find that TC was better by nearly all measures and actually shot LESS than Jenifer did.

But Yea man, if we could just kick TC off the team and start JJ all season, and fired Cronin and hired whatever scrubb that would take this job in this whack ass conference, we;d win it all every single year.

How exactly was Caupain's 142 shots as a freshman "LESS" than Jennifer's 58 shots? Your math skills aren't quite there.

The two comparison's are basically apples and oranges. Caupain came to a team with no point guard. We had GeLawn Guyn and that's it. His opportunity to play was far greater than Jenifers was out of pure necessity. He also came on a team with a 1st team all-american getting all the defensive focus, along with a couple other very good seniors, which probably allowed him to achieve some more success as a relative unknown who was getting little attention.

My post had nothing to do with Jenifer other than one small comment about his shooting complaints, and pointing out that Caupain shoots too much also.

Since you took the conversation to Cronin, let's discuss your little outlandish comment there. So you believe a top 20 salary out of 350 schools would only land us a scrubb? In other words, if P&G offered me $150,000 to work for them, and a run of the mill tool and dye shop on Beekman Street offered me $250,000 to work for them, I'll pass on the quarter mil because it's a little "whack" business. I would rather take $100,000 less to work at a Fortune 50 company. Show me the money! Paying a top 20 salary will attract very good coaches no matter what you think. It's a great university, with phenomenal facilities, in a tremendous city, with an amazing history and tradition. Don't kid yourself in thinking Cronin is the best we can do.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Caupain definitely needs to make more shots. I checked to see if he got a boost in conference play but found that he only shot 40% or better in 6 of 19 games vs AAC competition. That needs to be way better this year. Hopefully Evans and Clark can bear more of the offensive burden and create more for themselves. I know I've beat it to death so I don't want to make it all about pace, but I believe that having more than 20 seconds per possession to run the offense will also help take some of the burden off of Caupain. With other capable players, he shouldn't have to have the ball in his hands as much as the past 2 years.

another area I think Evans will help a bunch with. Ball handling!!! I will be disappointed if he isn't our last shot guy this year.

I have know problem TC having the ball a bunch because he doesn't turn it over but I hope he is not a first option. I want that to be Evans.

If we take care of the ball like we did last year and we get better production from Clark,Evans and Washington a lot of those close games we lost last year will show up in our win total.


We were about 7 points collectively from having a very nice season last year.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

How exactly was Caupain's 142 shots as a freshman "LESS" than Jennifer's 58 shots? Your math skills aren't quite there.

The two comparison's are basically apples and oranges. Caupain came to a team with no point guard. We had GeLawn Guyn and that's it. His opportunity to play was far greater than Jenifers was out of pure necessity. He also came on a team with a 1st team all-american getting all the defensive focus, along with a couple other very good seniors, which probably allowed him to achieve some more success as a relative unknown who was getting little attention.

My post had nothing to do with Jenifer other than one small comment about his shooting complaints, and pointing out that Caupain shoots too much also.

Per 40 minutes:
Caupain 8.7, 9.1, and 13.7 FG attempts by year.
Jenifer was 10.0 last year.

 

[L-T]

another area I think Evans will help a bunch with. Ball handling!!! I will be disappointed if he isn't our last shot guy this year.

I have know problem TC having the ball a bunch because he doesn't turn it over but I hope he is not a first option. I want that to be Evans.

If we take care of the ball like we did last year and we get better production from Clark,Evans and Washington a lot of those close games we lost last year will show up in our win total.


We were about 7 points collectively from having a very nice season last year.

Waite, we had 1 pt., 3 pt., 4 pt., two 5 pt., and 6 pt. wins last year. Therefore, we weren't many points from a catastrophically bad season as well.

 

[GarradJ21]

Per 40 minutes:
Caupain 8.7, 9.1, and 13.7 FG attempts by year.
Jenifer was 10.0 last year.

That's the only way you can look at it too^^

 

[L-T]

Per 40 minutes:
Caupain 8.7, 9.1, and 13.7 FG attempts by year.
Jenifer was 10.0 last year.

He didn't say "Less per 40 mins". He said "less". But now that you answered for him....he'll claim that is what he meant...lol! Also, he had SK, Jackson and Rubles throwing up over 1000 shots between them, and still he almost shot as much per 40 mins than Jenifer.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Per 40 minutes:
Caupain 8.7, 9.1, and 13.7 FG attempts by year.
Jenifer was 10.0 last year.

i really haven't dug into the statistics but if JJ gives us TC production over his 4 years I will be happy. Getting into who he played with and what was the game situation and such makes my head hurt. My eyes tell me TC is the best option at PG and that is why he gets the minutes. hopefully JJ will improves and will be a very nice option for us when TC is out of the game or moved to the 2. I refuse to get into the whole he was handled improperly. Without having access to all information needed to make such a statement it is pure speculation. We need all our players to move their games forward to have the kind of season we all want.

The whole Cronin debate is senseless as well. The fact he makes a bunch of money has been extended and brought back after considering another job tells me the people who make that decision are more then happy with his performance. It is totally irrelevant what anyone posting here thinks. We would be a much better site if we all remembered that. JMHO!!!

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, we had 1 pt., 3 pt., 4 pt., two 5 pt., and 6 pt. wins last year. Therefore, we weren't many points from a catastrophically bad season as well.

Can't argue that. But you have to admit 3/4 shots and split second wave offs were far from the norm in ne season.

 

[L-T]

i really haven't dug into the statistics but if JJ gives us TC production over his 4 years I will be happy. Getting into who he played with and what was the game situation and such makes my head hurt. My eyes tell me TC is the best option at PG and that is why he gets the minutes. hopefully JJ will improves and will be a very nice option for us when TC is out of the game or moved to the 2. I refuse to get into the whole he was handled improperly. Without having access to all information needed to make such a statement it is pure speculation. We need all our players to move their games forward to have the kind of season we all want.

The whole Cronin debate is senseless as well. The fact he makes a bunch of money has been extended and brought back after considering another job tells me the people who make that decision are more then happy with his performance. It is totally irrelevant what anyone posting here thinks. We would be a much better site if we all remembered that. JMHO!!!

Waite, this is a basketball forum. This is exactly the place to discuss the coach, his performance, his salary, who might be a better fit, that he is amazing, that he sucks, that he won that game for us, that he lost that game for us, that he is a great recruiter, or that he sucks at recruiting. The Reds owners kept Dusty Baker around for years and all you kept hearing is he needs to go. Finally the owners got the message. The Bengals have kept Marvin Lewis for years and all you hear is he needs to go. Nobody cares what ownership thinks. Just as in any other profession, there are owners who are great and owners who suck. That applies to Athletic Directors and BOT and Univ. Presidents. Maybe our university leadership is as incompetent as the coach. So, the fact that they are happy with him could be totally irrelevant. Evaluating basketball and coaching talent is not rocket science. It's fairly simple IMO. When you can't win championships and can't recruit, and you've been given 10 years, and you're paid a top level salary, it's time to move on. The fact that those in charge are too incompetent to see that is irrelevant to me. My prediction is that they will get the message soon.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, this is a basketball forum. This is exactly the place to discuss the coach, his performance, his salary, who might be a better fit, that he is amazing, that he sucks, that he won that game for us, that he lost that game for us, that he is a great recruiter, or that he sucks at recruiting. The Reds owners kept Dusty Baker around for years and all you kept hearing is he needs to go. Finally the owners got the message. The Bengals have kept Marvin Lewis for years and all you hear is he needs to go. Nobody cares what ownership thinks. Just as in any other profession, there are owners who are great and owners who suck. That applies to Athletic Directors and BOT and Univ. Presidents. Maybe our university leadership is as incompetent as the coach. So, the fact that they are happy with him could be totally irrelevant. Evaluating basketball and coaching talent is not rocket science. It's fairly simple IMO. When you can't win championships and can't recruit, and you've been given 10 years, and you're paid a top level salary, it's time to move on. The fact that those in charge are too incompetent to see that is irrelevant to me. My prediction is that they will get the message soon.

L-T we have beat the subject to death. It generally shows up in every thread. It is generally debated by the same people with the same arguments on each ocassion. How much does he make, how long has he been here and on and on. I have a different view of what I consider a successful program. i want the program to meet my standard and you want it to meet yours. We are both fans. I guess will have to agree to disagree. Personally I hope Mick finds a way to meet your expectation. because as I pointed out the admin is far from making a change and you are a longtime supporter of the program. If they were close to your perdiction his interest in the Vegas job would have been handled much differently. I'll bet you a 6 pack he is here at least 3 more seasons

 

[Madman81]

L-T we have beat the subject to death. It generally shows up in every thread. It is generally debated by the same people with the same arguments on each ocassion. How much does he make, how long has he been here and on and on. I have a different view of what I consider a successful program. i want the program to meet my standard and you want it to meet yours. We are both fans. I guess will have to agree to disagree. Personally I hope Mick finds a way to meet your expectation. because as I pointed out the admin is far from making a change and you are a longtime supporter of the program. If they were close to your perdiction his interest in the Vegas job would have been handled much differently. I'll bet you a 6 pack he is here at least 3 more seasons

fwiw the administration was furious about the vegas shit