WAITE HOYT 2
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2016-2017 Season
- Thread starter jacobkdoyle
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jacobkdoyle
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Waite each game has its own identity. You don't just implement the exact same gameplan all season long. I get the pace thing against top-notch teams. And for the Virginia and Notre Dame's of the world, they don't have many gimme games in the ACC. But for us, the style you're defending has led to some very ugly performances over the past couple years...a literal first to 50 loss to Tulane, a crap South Florida team who had a game tying 3 in the air, an ugly 2 OT loss to an inept Nebraska, and only scoring 60 points on the road 1 time in 9 AAC road games last year. How you can argue that we are approaching those games the best possible way we can is mind boggling to me. You have to be able to adapt to your opponent. If they have all big guys and 1 ball handler on the roster, who is a FR (USF), you can't tell me you would be wise to implement the same tactic as against Kentucky. So I guess what I'm telling you is, you're right. It isn't that simple.
UCBearcats
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Couldn't agree more. Fans generally tend to be overly optimistic this time of year. Last year right about now we were talking about Justin Jenifer being a hybrid of Chris Paul, John Stockton and Gary Peyton. A super PG plucked out of the sky by Mighty Mick himself sent to save our eyes from watching this pathetic offense plod along every year............well, we all saw how that worked out.
Lots of unknowns on the team this year and I have a lot of concern about the depth. I think most are assuming the unknowns are what will lead to the improvements but I'll be skeptical until I see it for myself.
I guess the good news for Mick is that he has built in excuses already for when he doesn't get it done this season. All the people telling us right now why they're going to be so good will be defending him at the and of the year saying this was a young team and just needs another year of experience and we'll get em next year. "We'll get em next year" -- the go to line for all Mick Cronin supporters.
Hey, hey, hey, let's get the facts straight. It was not right about now when I started my JJ promotional tour. It was actually the week after homecoming and the intrasquad scrimmage when I did that. And, you left out Nick Van Exel. I think I compared him more to Nick the Quick than I did to Paul, Stockton, or Payton.
I get accused about bashing Mick and his recruits all the time. but how did it work out when I went ga-ga over one of his recruits? You think I'll ever make that mistake again?
I will get the last laugh though. You watch. It will be JJ that gets us over the top in this 2016/2017 season. You've already seen Mick commenting on how he is a different player. The truth is, he's no different than he was last year. Mick has just changed his attitude about him and finally recognized his talents and is going to let him be the player he can be. If he doesn't jerk him out after one mistake every game, you'll see the true visionary that I am. You heard it here first!
UCBearcats
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CHEER CINCY
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Nothing changes with this team until we actually have a floor general with supreme ball skills and distribution intellect. Mick hasnt recruited ANYONE like this EVER. Cashmere was the closest to this but his injuries resulted in this never coming to fruition.
Everyone bashing "style of play" and making assumptions about who is going to be vastly improved needs to reflect on one thing : RECRUITING. I believe Mick isnt an idiot: he would run more uptempo if he had the player to do it. Unfortunately, his lack of recruiting in this area will NEVER solve this.
Everyone bashing "style of play" and making assumptions about who is going to be vastly improved needs to reflect on one thing : RECRUITING. I believe Mick isnt an idiot: he would run more uptempo if he had the player to do it. Unfortunately, his lack of recruiting in this area will NEVER solve this.
I totally agree Jacob! We need to dictate! If we are the more talented team, let's destroy them! Yeah against a more talented team if we need to be more conservative I don't wish that but if it happens I can see us being more conservative. I certainly hope this changes. All those mid-level teams should fear us. We should destroy them! But when you played at their pace regardless if we're more talented it becomes a six-point game.
Totally agree with you, I've never been a fan of Caupain as a point guard. He's a nice player, but not a great point guard. Jennifer is a true point guard, but needs work and maturity.
bearcatbacker82
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I noticed that CBS sports is broadcasting a lot cincy's games this year. Does ESPN still have the contract with the AAC for bball? It's definitely seems it's still in place for football.
I've been a member and a reader here for a long time. I never really post but nothing tickles me more than the grammar Nazis and forum correction officers on here. Y'all are so funny getting butthurt over the mildest tangent someone might drift off on and acting all corporate when u correct people or refer them to the terms of service. Please remember that this is an online message board for an unpopular team and banning people will only result in the number of daily posts to drop to 9.
Somebody is drunk posting. Dude, nobody cares what you have to say. Go be a pretend Cincinnati fan somewhere else. Sometimes I hate being a fan of a Cincinnati fan, not because of the teams, because all teams struggle and go through hard times. But because Cincinnati fans are just the worst, if their team isn't winning the talk s#*t about them non stop, they stop going to games and just give up all together. But believe me when a team is doing good that same fan says they've been a fan for 20-30 years and they have loved them the whole time and their support never wavered. It really is embarrassing for a true fan who supports his team and players no matter what. Honestly our teams don't need fans like you, go jump on the Alabama, OSU, New England or Cleveland fan bus.
2bearcatdad
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Was Steve Logan a great point guard? I thought he was tremendous - loved his game. His game style is far more similar to Caupain's than someone like JJ's imo. Of course, he had players like Kenyon and DeMar to pass it to - so it was a little easier for him to look good.
You don't have to be built like Nate Archibald in order to be an effective point guard.
CHEER CINCY
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Steve Logan was one of the best point guards in UC Basketball history. But, what I and LT are referencing specifically is the Mick Cronin era... the guy in 11 years has NEVER been able to recruit this type of floor general and thus it impacts the style of play. Again, say what you want about how he likes this slow, grind it out approach, but its a all result of him not be able to recruit PG's at a high level. I see this slow tempo as his excuse and outlet for not excelling in the recruiting arena.
justinhub2003
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Pretty sure they do. It's they only cover so many games that day and the rollover games go to cbs sports.
Steve Logan was one of the best point guards in UC Basketball history. But, what I and LT are referencing specifically is the Mick Cronin era... the guy in 11 years has NEVER been able to recruit this type of floor general and thus it impacts the style of play. Again, say what you want about how he likes this slow, grind it out approach, but its a all result of him not be able to recruit PG's at a high level. I see this slow tempo as his excuse and outlet for not excelling in the recruiting arena.
Troy has a completely different style but very effective. With the addition of Broome and Jenifer...they are definitely more up tempo guys. So the last two recruits are in the general direction you are talking about.
I think Troy is going to have a special season and I like the fact that he will be the floor general. I think the motion offense will help but we will have to wait and see. Just like Cronin's desire to control the D...it's hard for me to imagine that he won't regress from motion to his old stand by on offense at some point in the season so he has more control. In a play calling offense everyone knows where they are suppose to be or go. The motion will be a lot more chaotic. As a fan I can't wait to see this new style...if it lasts who knows.
I gotta tell you though...most of the latest recruits are not the old "physically gifted athletes who can play D but need to work on offense". Perhaps a light came on. Although Justin Jackson was a great defender it did take him 4 years to learn how to score points. Rubles is another guy that could defend at a high level but couldn't score. KJ...as a SG...should be able to score 12+ pts per game...but he hasn't.
Clark, Evans, Cumberland, Washington, Broome, Jenifer, Moore, Williams. These guys have offensive abilities. I think we struck gold with Evans and Clark being fantastic defenders as well. It sounds like Williams will be able to defend as well. It sounds like Washington just has to learn how not to be so aggressive and foul too much.
I like where this is all heading...
Actually, your statement is wrong. Logan only played primarily point guard in his senior season and he thrived. That was his first team all-american season. In his junior and sophomore seasons, Kenny Satterfield was the point guard and played 35 minutes per game. Logan played a little backup point guard, but more shooting guard. When he was the team's point guard, he did not have Kenyon and DeMarr to pass to. He had Immanual McIlroy, Leonard Stokes, a new feshman Jason Maxiell, Jamaal Davis, Donald Little, etc. Besides himself, the only other double figure scorer on the team was Stokes, so he really didn't have a ton of great offensive options to pass to. That however, was one of our great chemistry teams and an amazing defensive group. Amazingly, we averaged almost 79 points per game, and only gave up 60 per game. We spent most of the season ranked in the top 5, won the Conference USA Tourney by beating Dwayne Wade and Marquette, got a #1 seed, and then was screwed by the committee when they placed us with a second round matchup with highly "underrated" UCLA, who had been in the top 5 earlier in the season before injuries and chemistry issues caused them to underachieve. We lost that infamous double overtime battle 105 to 101.
But, for that one season, Steve Logan was as good of a point guard as we have ever seen. Let's watch how Troy's senior season plays out before we start comparing him to Steve Logan. Those are some very big shoes to fill!
justinhub2003
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One of the main reasons I can't switch. Basically stick to fiootics for the bearcats
I can still use my ps4 browser to get on vipbox.tv. Which is still better than paying more for cable. But still gets annoying sometimes
2bearcatdad
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I'm with you - my comparison is on their styles more than results although I think you downplay Troy's effectiveness too much. I expect Troy to have a really nice season, I'm not expecting a first team All-American, Steve Logan type season.
Regardless, can't wait for the season to get started.
Go Cats!
jacobkdoyle
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You can find the games to stream on Reddit and get a Chromrcast. That's my plan this year.
