justinhub2003
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2015
- Messages
- 5,583
Did you expect more?
2016-2017 Season
- Thread starter jacobkdoyle
- Start date
Help Support BearcatTalk:
Did you expect more?
SMU lost most of their scoring and cheating coach. Could still be a good team, but a lot is unknown. Tulsa lost their entire team and Memphis is still LOL. Temple could still be a decent team. but other than that.......
Lol! I think we said a lot of this same stuff last year!
UCBearcats
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
I just don't see it. Too many unknowns and not enough depth. My gut tells me this team will be very similar to last year's team and possibly not as good.
I'm not worried about our unknowns...they can't be much worse than some of our "knowns" from last season. I am excited about having 3 potential all conference players. We can fill in the gaps. The only depth issue we have is on the wing so I get that worry.
UCBearcats
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
To me Washington is a huge unknown, people love to crap on Ellis now that he's gone but I think he was a solid player and we may be taking a step back this season. Not having Deberry off the bench will hurt, to me the 5 is a huge question mark for this team.
Gary is very good, can he take a step forward this season and become great? It's a big if.
We all expect Evans to take a step forward after a great freshman season but it's not a given that his improvement will be dramatic and he could take a step back. Some would argue that Gary took a step back last season so it's not unheard of.
KJ is a downgrade over Cobb and Cumberland is the wildcard. How realistic is it to expect much out of Jarron, especially in Mick's system.
Troy will be Troy
Bench depth across the board is a huge question mark.
Every time I've rooted for a team with so many unknowns it usually doesn't turn out as well as everyone hopes. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.
The kicker with all this is Mick as coach, IMO he will hold this team back from any potential we hope it can show us. We can argue about it till we're blue in the face but Mick's teams usually all wind up looking about the same. This team will play the same brand of hoops Mick's teams always do and I expect the results will be similar to what we've grown accustomed to.
GarradJ21
Well-known member
I'll have to disagree.
Name one big shot Cobb has hit? The last 4 minutes of games he virtually disappeared. Couldn't make a shot and in fact was often benched since he couldn't find a way to get open, make a shot, or too short on defense. Overall, I liked him, but to act like he's way ahead of KJ or Cumberland I find that extremely hard to believe.
Ellis was awful. I'll say that now. At this point last year I expected big things out of him, but nope, was an absolute liability. His up and down travel during ISU game cost us the game. Butler game his put back with the and one was key, but besides that was terrible. How many missed layups did he miss against Tulsa when we needed it? I get it, his D was better than any center we have now, but I'll trade that any day with the rotation we can get now with much faster big men and the ability to spread the floor.
Shaq was Shaq for all 4 years. Never got over the hump maybe did for one or two games and then got hurt so who knows what could have happened but it's time to move on from him. Wish him the best. This basically gives Evans (a much better player) the chance to shine with no one in front of him.
Deberry was awesome off the bench. I'll miss him the most.
Trust me, you will be impressed with Washington. He will mean a heck of a lot more than Ellis did. Washington has better mindset and willing to do what ever it takes to win.
This team is much better and experienced than last year. AAC is down and we have winnable good non conference games. We should have our best year yet without a doubt. Caupain, Evans, and Clark being one year older and experienced alone can be a reason to be more excited this year than last.
That's a lot of pessimism right there...but that's okay. Not saying we shouldn't be. But you didn't really call for or expect any player to exceed last years production...other than it being a possibility just as much as the possibility for regression?? I don't get that.
Troy has progressed every year...so Troy being Troy should be a better Troy than last year. Gary became Defensive POY and increased point totals. I expect another gradual improvement from both. Evans blossomed at the end of last year. Not sure why you would expect a regression (or even consider it much a possibility).
As far as Ellis goes...he's been criticized for 2 seasons for his temperment, traveling, and soft hands. That did not start when he left the program. He was an asset on D but I think the other issues hurt his value and his team's chemistry. I've heard enough about Washington already to not be worried other than defensively.
As for the unknowns...we will just have to see. Not having Deberry isn't optimal. I liked Cobb...but the second half of last season was very average. He was killing it early on. It would be hard to replace first half Cobb but not second half Cobb.
It's not often you see regression out of players unless they get demoted and they have attitude issues.
UCBearcats
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
I'm a Cincinnati sports fan, pessimism is part of the gig.
I've tried the negative approach with Mick's teams, I've tried the positive approach and I think at this point I'm just resigned to a I'll believe it when I see it approach. Mick's teams generally leave a lot to be desired on the offensive end of the court and I don't expect that to change much this season.
Hope I'm wrong.
BearcatSpaniard513
Well-known member
Gary literally improved every single possible stat line last year....
Fr. Pts-7.8 Rebs- 7.2 Ast- 1.7 Blocks- 1.3 Stls- 1.0 3PM- 0
So. Pts- 10.4 Rebs- 8.8 Ast- 2.1 Blocks- 1.5 Stls- 1.2 3PM- 13
Bearcat_NTS
Well-known member
UCBearcats
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
Maybe "step back" was the wrong phrase. No question he improved, I just think many were predicting the improvement would be much better than it was.
Union Bearcat
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2015
- Messages
- 100
Better team doesn't always win.
BearcatSpaniard513
Well-known member
We did have some high hopes last year! Feelin' a lot of the same now. This time last year I thought Ellis would have been much more dominant offensively. Gary and Troy were great and Evans was a nice surprise. Shaq was Shaq though. Ellis under-performed IMO. The goal tending and traveling was ridiculous. Cobb started the season hot with games of 11, 15, 20 and 20 the first 4 games of the season. Second half od the year he was M.I.A. minus a couple performances. Gary was hurt. Troy was hurt. Will definitely miss DeBerry off the bench the most.
BearcatSpaniard513
Well-known member
Yeah hopefully the injury plagued our memories of how good he is. He's just such a solid player that you don't really worry when the ball is in his hands. I'm hoping he can average 2-2+ blocks a game this year with Ellis gone. I'm not expecting a huge jump offensively, but he does so many things well. They're definitely going to guard him on the 3 point line this year.
JasonS
Football Moderator
JasonS
Football Moderator
You have the 3 best players on last year's team returning this year and you are adding a talented freshman and a talented transfer. There's a lot to be optimistic about with this team. Not to put down the players that are gone from last year's team, because that wouldn't be right, but I think we have upgraded the top 6 players for sure and maybe top 7. Sure there are unknowns, but there are always unknowns in college basketball. That's what makes it so much more fun than the NBA. You never know how a kid is going to progress or how a freshman or transfer might fit in with the team. This roster make up is different. It's more athletic from the guard and wings spots and less focused on players in the paint posting up. Let's see what happens. Until I see them play a bit, I don't have a really good feel for where they will be from a record standpoint. I do think they have the chance to be a top 15 or 20 team at the end of the year.
david aka the TYZ
Well-known member
Cobb was very one dimensional. Any team smart enough to put size on him and take away his three ball made him pretty useless. And as others have said he never hit anything at the end of games. Ellis was a big disappointment last year. His D was solid but he couldn't rebound defensively because he went for EVERY blocked shot. And he regressed offensively. Shaq, as much as we all rooted for him, hurt us out there more than he didnt. Evans per 40 numbers could go down this year and we'll still get better production from the 3 as a whole. Those three players were the reason we weren't great last year. The team just didn't have a flow to it, players didn't all seem to fit. With that said we had a decent season but not as good as we all had hoped. The only thing I might can hang on mick is how much time he gave Shaq. Outside of a handful of opponents over the years that simply didn't play D, Shaq was just not a fit for this team. He played hard and hustled so I give him credit but the stats speak for themselves. The scoreless games and reboundless games were far too many and some were the same game where he played 20 minutes. That won't happen with Evans. Deberry was a great spark off the bench and a great way to get some quick points but overall he didn't play D or rebound at all. So he couldn't play too many minutes consistently. I'd love to have him on the bench again though. But for all these reasons above not being an issue this year I think we'll be better. This team seems like it's more cohesive where everybody will have and know their role. No they haven't played a game yet so it's just something I am speculating on, but my point is I don't hang last year on coaching. Yes mick recruited the players, and for that he deserves criticism, but some teams just don't gel and sometimes players don't perform like they should. I think last year's team falls in that category. Once the season starts you're stuck with the hand you have. We lost a lot of close games and that was for several reasons. A more cohesive group and maybe a little better rebounding and overall D, which I think this team will bring, can and will be the difference in some of those games.
Last edited:
CHEER CINCY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2014
- Messages
- 139
The coaches poll has us at #25. Im guessing the AP will have us top 30.
I know 3 things for certain:
1) the voters in these polls know nothing....yet
2) we dont have Shaq Thomas anymore.
3) we dont have Octavious Ellis anymore.
Based on key point #2 and #3 above, this years team will be better. I have never seen a worse 4-year player in my life in Shaq and I have never seen a dumber player than Ellis. The fact that they are gone leads to greater optimism alone.
In JE3 I TRUST,
CHEER CINCY
I know 3 things for certain:
1) the voters in these polls know nothing....yet
2) we dont have Shaq Thomas anymore.
3) we dont have Octavious Ellis anymore.
Based on key point #2 and #3 above, this years team will be better. I have never seen a worse 4-year player in my life in Shaq and I have never seen a dumber player than Ellis. The fact that they are gone leads to greater optimism alone.
In JE3 I TRUST,
CHEER CINCY
