2016 General Recruiting

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Who says we don't have playing time to offer? That's what I'm so confused about. Johnson, Brooks, Scott, Moore, and Jenifer are players 6-10 in our program. I don't see how playing time is a problem. And I'm talking about the 2016 Spring period. There aren't 5* players coming this spring. I'm talking about the players you and I think we need to give us depth. If Darius Hicks thinks he's starting day 1 at a place like Cincinnati, he's nuts. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have a chance to contribute right away. I just used Hicks bc I know we're after him, but the same is true for any wing player we offer.

If we are looking to fill depth I agree. But finding that right guy is not easy.

 

[culverrd]

I think you're missing the point.

It's just weird to me that on one hand we are worried about our depth bc scholarships 6-10 next year are Johnson, Brooks, Scott, Moore, and Jenifer...but on the other hand, it's way too hard to bring in good players bc there are no minutes? I don't get how that works.

My point exactly everyone acts like we have a roster full of NBA guys and that its hard to find playing time here so these high touted prospects don't want to come here or something, but then on the other hand everyone is like man we need this and that or we are going to be screwed. How does that add up? Any big name kid that has produced at a high level at any descent school has a shot to play on our team or about any team in the country. Giving the excuse that we are stacked and there are no minutes here is just a BS excuse. It would be different if we were sending guys left and right to the NBA or winning championships year in and year out and making deep tourney runs but we aren't! We are consistently getting to the tournament and lucky if we win a game. We have 2 recent players in the NBA. You are telling me that our roster is set for the next couple years and that we can't bring people in bc they are scared for playing time and dont think they can compete with what we have that's crazy to me. There is absolutely no reason why we cant keep the ball rolling with recruits bringing in some big key guys to add to what we have continue to have more success. With the arena renovations and if Cronin continues to shift his recruiting to more offensive minded kids and we make deep runs in the tournament there is no doubt in my mind we should and will compete on the same level with recruiting as all of these blue blood schools especially if we get into a big conference.

And my point with bringing up those schools like UK, KU, UNC, Duke, Ect was that they have way more talented rosters than we do from top to bottom if you go by recruiting year in and year out. They have more success as programs than we do consistently. Yet they have no problem reloading every single year with more 5 star top 25 recruits or adding a juco kid or grad transfer. Where is the excuse that these kids are worried about playing time and blah blah blah. All I am saying is if a kid doesn't want to go to a school bc he thinks he wont play much that tells me he is soft. He is already mentally weak. These top schools get kids who accept and want that competition. They live for it! They want the challenge! They have a chip on their shoulders and think they are going to kick anyone's @ss that is in front of them and be the man. That is where we need to get and the kids we need to go after. Please just stop with the excuses for everything.

 

[JasonS]

My point exactly everyone acts like we have a roster full of NBA guys and that its hard to find playing time here so these high touted prospects don't want to come here or something, but then on the other hand everyone is like man we need this and that or we are going to be screwed. How does that add up? Any big name kid that has produced at a high level at any descent school has a shot to play on our team or about any team in the country. Giving the excuse that we are stacked and there are no minutes here is just a BS excuse. It would be different if we were sending guys left and right to the NBA or winning championships year in and year out and making deep tourney runs but we aren't! We are consistently getting to the tournament and lucky if we win a game. We have 2 recent players in the NBA. You are telling me that our roster is set for the next couple years and that we can't bring people in bc they are scared for playing time and dont think they can compete with what we have that's crazy to me. There is absolutely no reason why we cant keep the ball rolling with recruits bringing in some big key guys to add to what we have continue to have more success. With the arena renovations and if Cronin continues to shift his recruiting to more offensive minded kids and we make deep runs in the tournament there is no doubt in my mind we should and will compete on the same level with recruiting as all of these blue blood schools especially if we get into a big conference.

And my point with bringing up those schools like UK, KU, UNC, Duke, Ect was that they have way more talented rosters than we do from top to bottom if you go by recruiting year in and year out. They have more success as programs than we do consistently. Yet they have no problem reloading every single year with more 5 star top 25 recruits or adding a juco kid or grad transfer. Where is the excuse that these kids are worried about playing time and blah blah blah. All I am saying is if a kid doesn't want to go to a school bc he thinks he wont play much that tells me he is soft. He is already mentally weak. These top schools get kids who accept and want that competition. They live for it! They want the challenge! They have a chip on their shoulders and think they are going to kick anyone's @ss that is in front of them and be the man. That is where we need to get and the kids we need to go after. Please just stop with the excuses for everything.

No one is saying we have all these NBA players. We might have a couple in Evans and Clark (maybe Cumberland) but that is still to be seen. The point is, there aren't any NBA ready prospects still available in 2016 so, based on who is out there, who is getting minutes over our starting 5/6? You guys are acting like 5 star players are falling off of trees in the late signing period. If there is a Lance Stephenson out there, great! I haven't seen one.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

No one is saying we have all these NBA players. We might have a couple in Evans and Clark (maybe Cumberland) but that is still to be seen. The point is, there aren't any NBA ready prospects still available in 2016 so, based on who is out there, who is getting minutes over our starting 5/6? You guys are acting like 5 star players are falling off of trees in the late signing period. If there is a Lance Stephenson out there, great! I haven't seen one.

I specifically mentioned that we won't be getting any 5*. I'm completely fine with who we are looking at. I just see the pre-emptive excuses being made for why we won't land them and I think it's hogwash. We have minutes to offer.

 

[JasonS]

I specifically mentioned that we won't be getting any 5*. I'm completely fine with who we are looking at. I just see the pre-emptive excuses being made for why we won't land them and I think it's hogwash. We have minutes to offer.

I know but culver keeps mentioning blue blood programs reloading with 5 stars. That's not realistic in UC's current situation.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I know but culver keeps mentioning blue blood programs reloading with 5 stars. That's not realistic in UC's current situation.

Well we agree on that.

I think the fact that we're being active this spring and looking into grad transfers even though we never really have before, tells us that the coaches think we still need to try to improve for next season. Especially bc our 2017 class is going to be small (potentially Broome + 2) by doing that, so not saving scholarships is very telling to me.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Well we agree on that.

I think the fact that we're being active this spring and looking into grad transfers even though we never really have before, tells us that the coaches think we still need to try to improve for next season. Especially bc our 2017 class is going to be small (potentially Broome + 2) by doing that, so not saving scholarships is very telling to me.

They are looking for a big and a wing for depth. Hopefully whoever we land will be better then what we have.

 

[justinhub2003]

Kentucky gets so much exposure that they have proved that you can play 10-15 minutes in their program off the bench and still get drafted.

UC is not that kinda program and neither is the other 300 and something D1 schools.


Under Cronin's system, usually 2-3 years of experience is going to get you further than raw talent as a freshman. Kevin Johnson will be probably be more of a contributor in his senior year than any of the targets we have left for the 2016 class (at least on defense). We are a program that values experience. Any player who wants to come play for us this late in the recruiting season pretty much knows that if they get big playing time its because they worked their ass off and earned it. I want that kinda player.

I mean, while we didn't kill it this recruiting season, if we do land one more player, we would end up having a decent class with the 41st best player in the country (according to 247 sports). And yet, no one is talking about Jarron near as much as they should (i guess because he is local). and most people have Jarron sharing minutes with Kevin at the 2, not even a full fledged starter, so if we dont think the 41st best player would start on this team and were unsure about, what the hell makes you think we could land someone this land in the season that could steal other established players minutes???

 

[coachpipe]

They are looking for a big and a wing for depth. Hopefully whoever we land will be better then what we have.

havent really heard any names on the wing other than the few that have committed elsewhere. The only name of date that I remember hearing is James Palmer, who would have to sit out a year. We arent in on Gill as far as I know.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I specifically mentioned that we won't be getting any 5*. I'm completely fine with who we are looking at. I just see the pre-emptive excuses being made for why we won't land them and I think it's hogwash. We have minutes to offer.

Not having a bunch of minutes to offer is not a excuse. Its is a part of the recruiting game. Actually we already lost out on a recruit because of minutes. Bowman I believe.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

havent really heard any names on the wing other than the few that have committed elsewhere. The only name of date that I remember hearing is James Palmer, who would have to sit out a year. We arent in on Gill as far as I know.

trying to find a wing is going to be tough.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Kentucky gets so much exposure that they have proved that you can play 10-15 minutes in their program off the bench and still get drafted.

UC is not that kinda program and neither is the other 300 and something D1 schools.


Under Cronin's system, usually 2-3 years of experience is going to get you further than raw talent as a freshman. Kevin Johnson will be probably be more of a contributor in his senior year than any of the targets we have left for the 2016 class (at least on defense). We are a program that values experience. Any player who wants to come play for us this late in the recruiting season pretty much knows that if they get big playing time its because they worked their ass off and earned it. I want that kinda player.

I mean, while we didn't kill it this recruiting season, if we do land one more player, we would end up having a decent class with the 41st best player in the country (according to 247 sports). And yet, no one is talking about Jarron near as much as they should (i guess because he is local). and most people have Jarron sharing minutes with Kevin at the 2, not even a full fledged starter, so if we dont think the 41st best player would start on this team and were unsure about, what the hell makes you think we could land someone this land in the season that could steal other established players minutes???

We have like 3 established players. They don't have to steal minutes from those guys. They have to beat out guys like Jenifer, Moore, Scott, and Brooks to be in the rotation.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Not having a bunch of minutes to offer is not a excuse. Its is a part of the recruiting game. Actually we already lost out on a recruit because of minutes. Bowman I believe.

We don't have minutes at PG this year. We have minutes everywhere else. You have to play more than 5-6 guys and our players beyond that at this point are not established or experienced. Bowman didn't come here bc of minutes? We didn't have Broome at the time he committed to BC, so the only guy ahead of him SO year on would've been Jenifer. If that's the conclusion he came to, he must not be very good.

 

[#BearcatNation]

We don't have minutes at PG this year. We have minutes everywhere else. You have to play more than 5-6 guys and our players beyond that at this point are not established or experienced. Bowman didn't come here bc of minutes? We didn't have Broome at the time he committed to BC, so the only guy ahead of him SO year on would've been Jenifer. If that's the conclusion he came to, he must not be very good.

Flat-out incorrect. Clark will get nearly all the minutes at PF. Evans will get 30 at the wing. We're pretty set at SG (not a big KJ fan, but I assume Cumberland will pick up any slack). We may have some minutes at center, but I think Washington is expected to excel and get a lot of minutes.

I think we could offer 15-20 minutes at center, but the rest of the positions would be around 10 (unless they came in and dominated immediately). 10 minutes isn't a whole lot to offer. We do lack depth, sure, but our starting lineup is pretty set. Seems recruits would rather pick a school that has everything kind of up in the air. Not the case with our top 5-6.

 

[seldompost]

When you are recruiting top 20 players, they don't worry as much about playing time. They figure they can beat everyone else out. A 3 star won't have that same assumption and may make a decision based on available minutes.

 

[culverrd]

Flat-out incorrect. Clark will get nearly all the minutes at PF. Evans will get 30 at the wing. We're pretty set at SG (not a big KJ fan, but I assume Cumberland will pick up any slack). We may have some minutes at center, but I think Washington is expected to excel and get a lot of minutes.

I think we could offer 15-20 minutes at center, but the rest of the positions would be around 10 (unless they came in and dominated immediately). 10 minutes isn't a whole lot to offer. We do lack depth, sure, but our starting lineup is pretty set. Seems recruits would rather pick a school that has everything kind of up in the air. Not the case with our top 5-6.

KJ hasn't done anything crazy in his entire career he has been very up and down. And Cumberland sure as heck hasn't done a single thing in college basketball yet so now we are assuming he is going to be this superstar. Remember a kid named Jermaine Lawrence everyone thought was going to be a superstar also. Nobodies minutes are guaranteed period. If someone comes in that is better I believe Mick will give them a shot to beat anyone on this team out for minutes. Hell what if this was Duvals class? You don't think a player of that caliber would get a shot at being a starter and playing more minutes here??? Hell at one point in the season he was going to play the walk on bc our kids weren't playing.

The only kids you would think would be the safest with minutes are TC, Gary, and Evans. Even then all of those guys have to do it next year and continue to produce and continue to get better. Their minutes aren't guaranteed.

And im not saying we can and should compete with blue bloods right this second I said in the future. I used them as an example with having way deeper rosters than ours filled with way more talent and kids not worrying about going there bc of playing time or having to compete against talented kids to win some playing time. Your excuse for playing time is garbage. Honestly most of these kids are transferring bc they want a shot to prove they can play with anyone in the country. They want a shot to play in the NCAA tournament. They want to experience high level college basketball and play in big time arenas against the big name teams. They want the gear and a shot to be on ESPN. Sure they want to play. But if these kids are leaving their situations they are in, more than likely they think they can compete with anyone in the country and with them getting looks from high level teams it just reiterates their beliefs.

And like Jacob said if that is seriously the reason why they wouldnt come here bc of playing time we dont need a player like that. Shows they dont believe they belong in the elite programs. They dont believe they are good enough to win more minutes from someone.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Flat-out incorrect. Clark will get nearly all the minutes at PF. Evans will get 30 at the wing. We're pretty set at SG (not a big KJ fan, but I assume Cumberland will pick up any slack). We may have some minutes at center, but I think Washington is expected to excel and get a lot of minutes.

I think we could offer 15-20 minutes at center, but the rest of the positions would be around 10 (unless they came in and dominated immediately). 10 minutes isn't a whole lot to offer. We do lack depth, sure, but our starting lineup is pretty set. Seems recruits would rather pick a school that has everything kind of up in the air. Not the case with our top 5-6.

Washington and Clark could both play the 4 or 5. We don't have a 3rd guy who has established himself as a reliable option. So either a 4 or 5 could get 20 minutes easily if they're any good.

We don't have a single backup 3 on the roster.

One of our 2s has never played a D-1 game and the other is a SR who just flat isn't very good.

I'll say this again...YOU NEED MORE THAN 4-5 PLAYERS AND THE 4-10 PLAYERS IN OUR PROGRAM TODAY HAVE NEVER DONE A SINGLE THING IN A BEARCAT UNIFORM.

You guys love following the party lines and faulty conventional wisdom. The depth of talent in our program as it stands today is not great. Our starting lineup seems fine, but you guys all have us slated to run every single one of them into the ground all season. In an 8-man rotation, we have 6 guys who seem capable of playing more than half the game, and that's being extremely generous to Kevin Johnson. Blows my mind that people can't see this. Based on your guys' flawed logic, no team anywhere should ever be able to land good players. And I'm not talking about the blue blood one and doners. I'm talking about the type of players we recruit...and if those 3* players demand starter minutes from day 1 at UC, then they're clueless...but that doesn't mean there isn't room to contribute.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

200 minutes to go around...

Caupain 34
Johnson 20 (not like he's earned that and can't lose his job)
Cumberland 20 (has never played D1)
Evans 32
Clark 30
Washington 28 (has never played a game for UC)

That leaves 36 minutes. No one else on the team has earned a single one of them. We have a few versatile guys too who can play multiple positions. The real life grind of college basketball demands depth. We don't exactly have that right now.

 

[JasonS]

Washington and Clark could both play the 4 or 5. We don't have a 3rd guy who has established himself as a reliable option. So either a 4 or 5 could get 20 minutes easily if they're any good.

We don't have a single backup 3 on the roster.

One of our 2s has never played a D-1 game and the other is a SR who just flat isn't very good.

I'll say this again...YOU NEED MORE THAN 4-5 PLAYERS AND THE 4-10 PLAYERS IN OUR PROGRAM TODAY HAVE NEVER DONE A SINGLE THING IN A BEARCAT UNIFORM.

You guys love following the party lines and faulty conventional wisdom. The depth of talent in our program as it stands today is not great. Our starting lineup seems fine, but you guys all have us slated to run every single one of them into the ground all season. In an 8-man rotation, we have 6 guys who seem capable of playing more than half the game, and that's being extremely generous to Kevin Johnson. Blows my mind that people can't see this. Based on your guys' flawed logic, no team anywhere should ever be able to land good players. And I'm not talking about the blue blood one and doners. I'm talking about the type of players we recruit...and if those 3* players demand starter minutes from day 1 at UC, then they're clueless...but that doesn't mean there isn't room to contribute.

I think there are two separate arguments going on here. I think everyone would agree that, in an ideal world, the staff landing another wing and a big who can improve the overall roster would be preferred. I don't think anyone is saying that they are thrilled with the total roster and that the bench is amazing. The issue is in the available players at those positions who are eligible in 2016-17 and what they can be offered right now in terms of opportnuity. Mick and this staff do not promise players ANYTHING. They don't promise playing time, etc. That is one of the reasons we see fewer transfers leaving the program. Usually those are because of disciplinary reasons or the kid realizes he isn't going to get the PT he wants. It's not because the coaching staff promised the kid something and didn't follow through. There are more big man options out there than guards/wings so it is more likely that we will see the staff land a big than a wing. There is more need for a wing though. It is what it is. It's about setting realistic expectations, not making excuses. Is there room for improvement in the overall roster? Absolutely. Is the staff trying to improve the roster? Always. Does it mean it's going to happen? No. Other programs can and will offer/guarantee playing time. That won't happen here. It is what it is. The kids left in the spring signing period that can play right away aren't 5 star superstars that don't care who is in front of them. It's recruiting 101 and is the nature of the business today. You're not going to land a grad transfer that improves your team at the wing or down low if they aren't going to start or play big minutes. Those guys are highly coveted and they will have other opportunities. It doesn't mean they couldn't beat out 6-10, it means THEY don't want to beat out 6-10. They want to start or play starter minutes. You're not starting a grad transfer over Evans, Clark, or Washington so why would one of those come here? Recruiting is a 2 way contract. Just because you want the recruit, it doesn't mean the recruit wants you. Playing time plays a major role in that for 99% of the recruits out there.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think there are two separate arguments going on here. I think everyone would agree that, in an ideal world, the staff landing another wing and a big who can improve the overall roster would be preferred. I don't think anyone is saying that they are thrilled with the total roster and that the bench is amazing. The issue is in the available players at those positions who are eligible in 2016-17 and what they can be offered right now in terms of opportnuity. Mick and this staff do not promise players ANYTHING. They don't promise playing time, etc. That is one of the reasons we see fewer transfers leaving the program. Usually those are because of disciplinary reasons or the kid realizes he isn't going to get the PT he wants. It's not because the coaching staff promised the kid something and didn't follow through. There are more big man options out there than guards/wings so it is more likely that we will see the staff land a big than a wing. There is more need for a wing though. It is what it is. It's about setting realistic expectations, not making excuses. Is there room for improvement in the overall roster? Absolutely. Is the staff trying to improve the roster? Always. Does it mean it's going to happen? No. Other programs can and will offer/guarantee playing time. That won't happen here. It is what it is. The kids left in the spring signing period that can play right away aren't 5 star superstars that don't care who is in front of them. It's recruiting 101 and is the nature of the business today. You're not going to land a grad transfer that improves your team at the wing or down low if they aren't going to start or play big minutes. Those guys are highly coveted and they will have other opportunities. It doesn't mean they couldn't beat out 6-10, it means THEY don't want to beat out 6-10. They want to start or play starter minutes. You're not starting a grad transfer over Evans, Clark, or Washington so why would one of those come here? Recruiting is a 2 way contract. Just because you want the recruit, it doesn't mean the recruit wants you. Playing time plays a major role in that for 99% of the recruits out there.

Absolutely!!!!!!! thank you!!!!!