3/7 Polls

[Kingsley Court]

I understand what you're saying about OOC SOS, but just think about it logically. We are a better team than Xavier; we proved it on the court convincingly. If they're the 18th best basketball team in the nation (and that's a big if), we have to reside somewhere between 1-17. It's very simple -- no transitive arguments here saying we beat somebody they lost to, so by proxy we're better. No, we're better by virtue of the fact we beat them, so we should be recognized as being better.

Same goes for Georgetown (and Louisville btw), though the case is even more convincing. We have beaten them not once, but twice in the past two weeks, and our record is superior to theirs in the same conference. If they're the 22nd best basketball team in the nation, we have to be 21st or better. There's just no getting around it.

Are you serious about this? I understand being upset, but it was just 1 game. Or are you the type of person that thought K-state was really 20 points better than Kansas? Had Kansas not played Kstate again, would you think Kstate should be ranked higher than them? Come on. Or, if you feel like that, do you believe XU was better than UC's number 1 ranked teams? According to you, they were.

I think Gtown in the polls still is garbage though. Gtown is obviously slipping, I didn't think there was any way they would be ranked.

 

[SlamJam]

What ever happen to being rewarded for player and beating good competition??!! While Xavier is beating 150+ RPI teams and getting better. Its a joke. I think the reason why it bothers me so much now where as before it didn't because it is potentially hurting our seeding. There is just no way Temple, Gtown, Utah State can be ranked higher than us.

Wont hurt the seeding. UC has the good wins and no bad losses- the only thing that could hurt the seeding is that 78th SOS

**I will say RPI is lame but RPI and SOS are looked at heavily by the committee

 

[Kingsley Court]

What ever happen to being rewarded for player and beating good competition??!! While Xavier is beating 150+ RPI teams and getting better. Its a joke. I think the reason why it bothers me so much now where as before it didn't because it is potentially hurting our seeding. There is just no way Temple, Gtown, Utah State can be ranked higher than us.

You know they don't look at top 25 polls when it comes to seeding right?

 

[adrock]

Are you serious about this? I understand being upset, but it was just 1 game. Or are you the type of person that thought K-state was really 20 points better than Kansas? Had Kansas not played Kstate again, would you think Kstate should be ranked higher than them? Come on. Or, if you feel like that, do you believe XU was better than UC's number 1 ranked teams? According to you, they were.

That's fair. I suppose my fandom is showing. I still think the GTown argument holds some water though because it was 2 games and both of them recently.

 

[anbuc88]

You know they don't look at top 25 polls when it comes to seeding right?

You are correct. The polls will have nothing to do with seeding. UC will be seeded higher than XU come Selection Sunday. And they should be.

 

[UCalum08]

You know they don't look at top 25 polls when it comes to seeding right?

No I didn't. I mean I know they don't use that strictly on placing teams but I always hear and it seems like i.e. the 25th team is usually a 7ish seed. So I thought it would play some what of a part in the decision.

Question(s): What do you see our seeding in the tourney being? Also, since we have not been getting any respect from majority of the people out there, do you winning our first game in the BE tourney will do anything for UC? What about if we won 2 games? To me, it seems even if we beat, assuming we play Villanova, it won't hold much praise since Nova is a downfall...

 

[Kingsley Court]

That's fair. I suppose my fandom is showing. I still think the GTown argument holds some water though because it was 2 games and both of them recently.

Well, I fully support you on the Gtown argument. Can't believe they are still ranked.

To those who don't understand XU's ranking, they have lost once in the past 17 games.

 

[BoKnows]

Im not saying UC should be ranked ahead of Xavier or not- but I dont like that argument. Is Fordham better then St. Johns by virtue of the fact they beat them?

Also to note- Xavier currently has a tougher SOS (57) compared to UC (78)

Again- I think UC should be in the top 25 but the argument "we beat team A so we are better then Team A" is a bad argument IMO. Was Xavier better then UC when UC was number 1 in the country and X beat them (two different times)? No. Using your argument- yes.

I'm not supporting the argument that just because you beat someone you should be ranked higher, but when the two teams in question have at least similar resumes and one beat the other by 20, i think its fair to say they should be ranked higher based on the head to head win.

As for Xavier having a stronger SOS than UC, all that does is show how flawed the RPI is.

Putting aside the fact that Xavier lost to the two top-25 teams they played, UC has played 9 top 25 teams and Xavier has played 2.

They have a stronger SOS because they played less 250+ RPI teams. As far as I'm concerned whether a cupcake is ranked 150 or 330 in the RPI makes no difference, if you are a good team its an automatic win.

It should be based on how many top 50 teams you have played not on the fact that the cupcakes you played were slightly better than the cupcakes another team played.

 

[Kingsley Court]

No I didn't. I mean I know they don't use that strictly on placing teams but I always hear and it seems like i.e. the 25th team is usually a 7ish seed. So I thought it would play some what of a part in the decision.

Question(s): What do you see our seeding in the tourney being? Also, since we have not been getting any respect from majority of the people out there, do you winning our first game in the BE tourney will do anything for UC? What about if we won 2 games? To me, it seems even if we beat, assuming we play Villanova, it won't hold much praise since Nova is a downfall...

Well it usually works out that way, just because if they are in the top 25 polls then they have to have a pretty good resume. They do look at top 25 RPI wins and things like that though.

I think UC could have a great seed, it looks like a lot of people have them around a 7, I think best realistic case would be around a 5. Win Big East tourney I'm thinking a 4. Your thoughts?

 

[anbuc88]

That's fair. I suppose my fandom is showing. I still think the GTown argument holds some water though because it was 2 games and both of them recently.

The rankings should be on how you are playing as of the present. The inarguable fact is that it is not. SJU should have moved up more than they did after beating Duke, but they remained on the fringe of the Top 25. Conversely, UNC beats Duke and gets a 10 spot bump in the polls. There is an inherent bias in the polls, and the name on the front of your jersey goes farther at times than your results on the court. Even though we debate this, the best thing about college basketball is that eventually things have to be decided on the court, not in the arena of public opinion.

 

[SlamJam]

I agree- its flawed. But its the system the committee looks at. I think Both UC and XU will be right around the 6 seed.

 

[Kingsley Court]

I'm not supporting the argument that just because you beat someone you should be ranked higher, but when the two teams in question have at least similar resumes and one beat the other by 20, i think its fair to say they should be ranked higher based on the head to head win.

As for Xavier having a stronger SOS than UC, all that does is show how flawed the RPI is.

Putting aside the fact that Xavier lost to the two top-25 teams they played, UC has played 9 top 25 teams and Xavier has played 2.

They have a stronger SOS because they played less 250+ RPI teams. As far as I'm concerned whether a cupcake is ranked 150 or 330 in the RPI makes no difference, if you are a good team its an automatic win.

It should be based on how many top 50 teams you have played not on the fact that the cupcakes you played were slightly better than the cupcakes another team played.

I do agree the RPI is a joke. I hate it, and can't stand that it's used in seeding. But, if it is used in seeding then it's smart to schedule RPI boosters.

 

[BoKnows]

I do agree the RPI is a joke. I hate it, and can't stand that it's used in seeding. But, if it is used in seeding then it's smart to schedule RPI boosters.

I agree. You can easily work the system if you know what you are doing. The Missouri Valley Conference played that game during Kennedy's season as coach when they got 4 bids to the tourney (could have been 5, I forget) and half of the conference had a top 50 RPI.

The problem with that for UC comes back to money and the school's support of the program.

You have to pay teams in the 150-200 range of the RPI a lot more to come play at your place than you do with the teams in the 250+ range. Before this season, spending more money on scheduling wasn't exactly a priority for the university.

I can see that happening in the future after the success of the team this season but the majority of the schedule is set a few years in advance.

 

[UCalum08]

Well it usually works out that way, just because if they are in the top 25 polls then they have to have a pretty good resume. They do look at top 25 RPI wins and things like that though.

I think UC could have a great seed, it looks like a lot of people have them around a 7, I think best realistic case would be around a 5. Win Big East tourney I'm thinking a 4. Your thoughts?

I agree with you on that. I think if we lose our 1st rd game we are most likely a 6 or 7. But, I think if we can move on to ND and play well in that game win or lose we will be a 5-6 seed. Anything past that and we should be a solid 4-5. That is where I would really like to see them just bc of the 2nd rd. match-ups in the NCAA.

 

[cincinnati insanity]

Me and my buddy were talking earlier in the season and we both could swear that UK lost a game and moved up in the rankings. they just beat like Vanderbilt and moved up 7 spots. there record of big wins does not compete with UC's either. KY's fans follow and bring money. UC's dont. I might be the only one here who does not want UC ranked. They might play worse than any other team when there is a number infront of there name. I say go in tournament unranked with a chip on your shoulder and then prove yourself there.

 

[JasonS]

If UC wins the Big East Tourney, they will have beaten (most likely) Nova and then ND. They could play Louisville or WVU potentially in the Semi-Finals and STJ, Cuse, Pitt, UCONN, or GT in the finals. If you win those 4 games against any of these opponents, you are looking at another 4 top 50 (if not top 25) RPI wins and an overall record of 28-7 and essentially 15-7 in the Big East with the Tourney included. They will be rewarded with a 3 seed if that happens. Win 3 games and you are looking at a 4 IMO. Win 2 and a 5 seed is probable. Win 1 and I think they are probably a 6 but depending on what other teams do, they could be a 5.