Around the Country

[sedziobs]

The idea is that Kenpom provides a better estimate of team strength than RPI. By that measure, the Big East is actually better than their RPI indicates. Our conference is actually worse than our RPI indicates.

If you're going to make bold claims like "The big East really understands the RPI and how to game it... We don't and our conference doesn't" then you should probably look at some facts first.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

The idea is that Kenpom provides a better estimate of team strength than RPI. By that measure, the Big East is actually better than their RPI indicates. Our conference is actually worse than our RPI indicates.

If you're going to make bold claims like "The big East really understands the RPI and how to game it... We don't and our conference doesn't" then you should probably look at some facts first.

Facts like their conference OOC SOS is projected 6th and ours is projected 22nd? Facts like the RPI is calculated with 75 percent of the weight going towards SOS? That's what I look at when I say they know how to game the RPI. The RPI is more who you play and they don't play as many bottom feeders as our conference teams do. It's really that simple. Comparing their RPI to kenpom makes no sense. We're not talking kenpom, we're talking gaming the RPI. Their conference is projected to finish 2nd and ours 7th. You don't think that means they've worked it better? It'd been the same way for years and I've made this same "bold" claim. But we're smarter for finishing 7th rather than 2nd? I agree Kenpom is a better guage, unfortunately the selection committee doesn't and whenever ranking numbers are used it's always RPI. Teir 1, Teir 2 will use RPI. Their conference schedules much better than ours and that's not me making some unfounded bold claim.

 

[sedziobs]

How can you possibly tell how successfully a conference "games" RPI without even considering how good the teams are? That's a nonstarter. RPI and SOS are not the same thing. The SWAC has the 3rd best SOS.

The Big East doesn't have a higher RPI because they're "smarter" than us. They're better at basketball than us.

 

[cincrulz11]

The Big East doesn't have a higher RPI because they're "smarter" than us. They're better at basketball than us.

and they are a small conference with no teams that are awful. our conference has a weak middle and a horrendous back end.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

How can you possibly tell how successfully a conference "games" RPI without even considering how good the teams are? That's a nonstarter. RPI and SOS are not the same thing. The SWAC has the 3rd best SOS.

The Big East doesn't have a higher RPI because they're "smarter" than us. They're better at basketball than us.

My point is they schedule better than us and it reflects in their RPI. If you can't see that then we're on a separate page I guess.

And actually RPI and SOS are very close to the same because 75 percent of it is your SOS. Obviously wins and losses play on which is why the SWAC isn't as high in RPI. But playing 100-200 level teams regularly as opposed to 200+ will affect your SOS numbers while not necessarily affecting your wins and losses as you should be winning them all anyway. So by "gaming the RPI", I'm referring to scheduling better. Their SOS is much better than ours and that's not by accident.

 

[sedziobs]

RPI is calculated with 75 percent of the weight going towards SOS

This fact is often pointed out, but I don't think people appreciate how little of an effect that 75% actually has.

For example, the forecast top conference SOS is 5439. The worst is 4625. That's a difference of only 0814.

The top conference record is 8268. The worst is 0661. That's a difference of 7607, almost ten times as high as SOS.

So although SOS is 75% of RPI, the differences are still mostly due to actual record. The same concept also applies to individual teams.

 

[sedziobs]

My point is they schedule better than us and it reflects in their RPI. If you can't see that then we're on a separate page I guess.

We're on a separate page. If we scheduled like the Big East does, our record would be considerably worse. Bad enough that I doubt our RPI would end up any better than it is now. Kempom is the reason I think that.

 

[Jon Rycek]

We're on a separate page. If we scheduled like the Big East does, our record would be considerably worse. Bad enough that I doubt our RPI would end up any better than it is now. Kempom is the reason I think that.

Our record would not be considerably worse. Go look at Xavier's non conference schedule and tell me how much worse our record would be if that's what we played.

Their tough game consisted of
@Wisconsin
Arizona State on neutral court
Baylor at home

We may even have a better record if we play their schedule. They played a bunch of decent schools, like was already said. Teams we would beat 9/10 times if we played them. does that make their RPI better, sure, does it really mean they're that much better, hell no.

 

[sedziobs]

You're comparing two individual teams, not two conferences. And the AAC team you picked is actually better than the Big East team you picked in Kenpom. I'll counter with the middle team in the AAC against the middle Big East team (according to kenpom). Tulsa vs Seton Hall. Do you think Tulsa would go 11-2 against Seton Hall's schedule?

But individual team comparisons are not the point. The point is the conference as a whole. ECU and USF barely went .500 against horrible teams. Georgetown and DePaul played horrible teams too, but they beat them. The Big East has better basketball teams in general.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Well really I was just answering exactly what you stated. That if we played a big east schedule we would be considerably worse off record wise so I picked the other team who happens to be 3rd in RPI. I never said anything about Kenpom. So what about Villanova. Who is higher than us in Kenpom.

They played

Western KY on neutral court
Tennessee on a neutral court
Gonzaga at MSG
At Temple

Once again; we would have the same, If not better non conference record if we played their schedule. The thing is the play a bunch of mediocre teams(teams we would beat almost every time), but we play a few trash games and it kills our RPI.

 

[cincrulz11]

You're comparing two individual teams, not two conferences. And the AAC team you picked is actually better than the Big East team you picked in Kenpom. I'll counter with the middle team in the AAC against the middle Big East team (according to kenpom). Tulsa vs Seton Hall. Do you think Tulsa would go 11-2 against Seton Hall's schedule?

But individual team comparisons are not the point. The point is the conference as a whole. ECU and USF barely went .500 against horrible teams. Georgetown and DePaul played horrible teams too, but they beat them. The Big East has better basketball teams in general.

yeah i dont really see what the hang up here is. depaul is their worst ranked kenpom team at 118. thats better than half our league.


they also have 6 in the top 39. we have 4 in the top 43.


the leagues aren't comparable once you get past the top 2 (and thats being generous considering their top team is the best team in the country).

 

[jacobkdoyle]

@EnthusiAdams
NCAA Men’s Basketball Average Budgets/Team by Conference: As Per US Dept of Education
1. ACC- Average Budget $10.165M/Team
2. Big 12 Average Budget $9.27M/Team
3. Big East Average Budget $9.055M/Team
4. SEC Average Budget $8.917M/Team
5. Big Ten Average Budget $8.765M/Team
NCAA Men’s Basketball Average Budgets/Team by Conference: As Per US Dept of Education
6. Pac12 Average Budget $7.52M/Team
7. AAC Average Budget $6.12M
8. A-10 Average Budget $4.355M
9. WCC Average Budget $4.352M
10. MWC Average Budget $3.835M
11. C-USA Average Budget $2.792M
NCAA Men’s Basketball Average Budgets/Team by Conference: As Per US Dept of Education
12. MVC Average Budget $2.576M/Team
13. CAA Average Budget $2.495M
14. MAC Average Budget $2.35M
15. Big West Average Budget $2.26M
16.MAAC Average Budget $2.24M
NCAA Men’s Basketball Average Budgets/Team by Conference: As Per US Dept of Education
17. Horizon League Average Budget $2.155M/Team
18. WAC Average Budget $2.1M
19. Patriot League Average Budget $2.06M
20. Sun Belt Average Budget $1.966M
21. America East Average Budget $1.73M
NCAA Men’s Basketball Average Budgets/Team by Conference: As Per US Dept of Education
22. NEC Average Budget $1.71M/Team
23. Big South Average Budget $1.67M
24. Summit Average Budget $1.651M
25. Big Sky Average Budget $1.63M
26. SOCON Average Budget $1.62M
NCAA Men’s Basketball Average Budgets/Team by Conference: As Per US Dept of Education
27. Atlantic Sun Average Budget $1.523M
28. OVC Average Budget $1.46M
29. IVY Average Budget $1.37M
30. Southland Average Budget $1.25M
31. MEAC Average Budget $1.16M
32. SWAC Aver Budget $821K

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Duke and Kansas getting beat.

 

[dbieon12]

Duke and Kansas getting beat.

Not sure we leap Duke but should definitely move passed Kansas.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Not sure we leap Duke but should definitely move passed Kansas.

Yeah right. Duke loses to a team with a losing record we definitely pass them lol

 

[Jon Rycek]

Down goes the blue devils. Number 6 we are coming for ya

 

[Queens_NYC]

Funny how St. John's always plays out of their mind at home against Duke

 

[dbieon12]

Yeah right. Duke loses to a team with a losing record we definitely pass them lol

I agree but then again it is Duke. Big name brands get special treatment.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Kansas now has 3 losses at home to unranked teams.

 

[Defense first]

I agree but then again it is Duke. Big name brands get special treatment.

No doubt about it. West Virginia getting some love also. Drop 4 if your last five and don't drop 10 spots. Lol. Officiating in these blue blood games are even worse than I remember. Ky gets every opportunity call wise in every game they play. There guys stiff arm every time they attack the lane, never ever seen it called. So you can basically use your off hand to create space. Unbelievable. They lose to Missouri even with the help of the refs. God i love watching them lose.....