Crosstown Shootout Dec 6, 2020 Fifth Third Arena

[skyblade]

What’s the solution. I agree Vogt hasn’t been good. Diarra has been clueless. What’s the solution? I’d prefer not playing with 2 bigs

I think you have to go with Diarra and/or Eason and take your lumps. I'd even be willing to give Eason at the 5 and Davenport at the 4 a go. Rap/Vogt just haven't been good enough on offense to justify having two liabilities on defense (with the exception of Vogt for the last 8 minutes against Lipscomb).

I thought it could be Rap at the 5 and 4 smaller guys. But against Xavier Rap looked worse defensively than Vogt when playing the 5. At least Rap, Eason (especially Eason) and Diarra grabbed some rebounds, Vogt finished with one while being guarded by a guy he has 4/5 inches and 30lbs on.

Our defense is horrible. The majority of stops are from the other team shooting themselves in the foot or missing open shots.

 

[Bcatfollower]

No defense. .500 team at best. Brannen is a garbage-tier coach.

I wouldn’t say garbage. Probably average. But fans don’t want average.

 

[cincyalum2014]

With Mick we knew what our identity was and that was defense. He recruited tough unknown guys and then 1 or 2 offensive stars and ran the whole offense through them... IE: Jarron and Evans, then guards who could distribute the ball and play defense..... With JB what’s our identity? He wants to run and shoot? I’m not bashing JB I just honestly don’t know, how can you run and gun with Vogt and Rap on the floor together.

 

[Bcatfollower]

I think you have to go with Diarra and/or Eason and take your lumps. I'd even be willing to give Eason at the 5 and Davenport at the 4 a go. Rap/Vogt just haven't been good enough on offense to justify having two liabilities on defense (with the exception of Vogt for the last 8 minutes against Lipscomb).

I thought it could be Rap at the 5 and 4 smaller guys. But against Xavier Rap looked worse defensively than Vogt when playing the 5. At least Rap, Eason (especially Eason) and Diarra grabbed some rebounds, Vogt finished with one while being guarded by a guy he has 4/5 inches and 30lbs on.

Our defense is horrible. The majority of stops are from the other team shooting themselves in the foot or missing open shots.

I believe you have some sort of bias. Nothing diara or Eason did shows they would be an upgrade over Vogt and rap.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Our guards are so bad defensively they constantly get beat off the dribble. Vogt and rap can only do so much. Either the guard gets a layup or they leave their man for a dish.

Williams and maw look slow on their feet.

Our guards have zero reasons to be bad at defense and they are. they should be locked down defenders with their length and athleticism and they suck

 

[cincyguy13]

I think you have to go with Diarra and/or Eason and take your lumps. I'd even be willing to give Eason at the 5 and Davenport at the 4 a go. Rap/Vogt just haven't been good enough on offense to justify having two liabilities on defense (with the exception of Vogt for the last 8 minutes against Lipscomb).

I thought it could be Rap at the 5 and 4 smaller guys. But against Xavier Rap looked worse defensively than Vogt when playing the 5. At least Rap, Eason (especially Eason) and Diarra grabbed some rebounds, Vogt finished with one while being guarded by a guy he has 4/5 inches and 30lbs on.

Our defense is horrible. The majority of stops are from the other team shooting themselves in the foot or missing open shots.

I love dou, but he has looked like one of the worst players on the court every time he has played. I’d go rap for offense and Eason or Davenport. I think Davenport is solid. Get Harvey or another wing in there. The confusing part of the defense is when no one helps. That’s basketball 101. Still the 2nd game, maybe we will see some changes. I think brannen is trying to get Eason on the court more. Maybe he is trying to work him in. Similar to maw last year.

 

[cincyguy13]

DD had 16, 5 rebs, 6 assist, and 0 turnovers. That’s a great game.
Saunders look really good and comfortable out there.
Eason lead our team in rebounds in very limited minutes.

I think there is some good things going forward but I think we need to start limiting Vogt and Williams minutes. Not saying they shouldn’t play but I don’t think they need to be playing as much as they do

 

[cincyguy13]

With Mick we knew what our identity was and that was defense. He recruited tough unknown guys and then 1 or 2 offensive stars and ran the whole offense through them... IE: Jarron and Evans, then guards who could distribute the ball and play defense..... With JB what’s our identity? He wants to run and shoot? I’m not bashing JB I just honestly don’t know, how can you run and gun with Vogt and Rap on the floor together.

Mick was never great against xavier either. I honestly think he is still building his program. I don’t think Vogt is his ideal player but he can trust him and knows what to expect from him. With diarra he has no clue. I don’t know why he think we need to play 2 bigs at the same time

 

[skyblade]

I believe you have some sort of bias. Nothing diara or Eason did shows they would be an upgrade over Vogt and rap.

I agree, nothing shows they'd be an upgrade in the short term. But nothing shows they'd be particularly worse either. They'd make more dumb mistakes, but make up for it by playing better defense and grabbing a lot more rebounds.

But in the long term, Eason and Diarra will be here next year, they also fit into the run and gun style Brannen claims to want to play. Their mistakes can (in theory) be corrected with playing time. Vogt's not going to ever become more mobile. Rap could in theory improve at defense at the 5, but he seems to want to play like a guard and it's probably a bit late in his career to fix him.

 

[skyblade]

Our guards have zero reasons to be bad at defense and they are. they should be locked down defenders with their length and athleticism and they suck

I agree our guards haven't been great on defense, but you can't put all the blame on them. Vogt is horrible at pick-and-roll defense and Rap isn't much better. Teams are consistently going after them in the pick-and-roll, Xavier did it more times then you can count. Initially they went to Freemantle for the 3 off the pick-and-roll, but Freemantle missed quite a few opens one and Vogt started paying more attention to him, but that left Vogt more vulnerable to the drive. It puts the guard in a tough -near impossible - position, he needs to get around the screen and still guard the drive.

 

[cincyguy13]

I agree, nothing shows they'd be an upgrade in the short term. But nothing shows they'd be particularly worse either. They'd make more dumb mistakes, but make up for it by playing better defense and grabbing a lot more rebounds.

But in the long term, Eason and Diarra will be here next year, they also fit into the run and gun style Brannen claims to want to play. Their mistakes can (in theory) be corrected with playing time. Vogt's not going to ever become more mobile. Rap could in theory improve at defense at the 5, but he seems to want to play like a guard and it's probably a bit late in his career to fix him.

Diarra is in his 4th year here. Keith the same. At some point, they are what they are. Diarra has looked worse in the limited time he has played. Which is hard to do, because Vogt hasn’t been good.

 

[Bcatfollower]

I agree our guards haven't been great on defense, but you can't put all the blame on them. Vogt is horrible at pick-and-roll defense and Rap isn't much better. Teams are consistently going after them in the pick-and-roll, Xavier did it more times then you can count. Initially they went to Freemantle for the 3 off the pick-and-roll, but Freemantle missed quite a few opens one and Vogt started paying more attention to him, but that left Vogt more vulnerable to the drive. It puts the guard in a tough -near impossible - position, he needs to get around the screen and still guard the drive.

They were getting beat straight up without picks in the first 10 min of the game. I’d say they have the majority of the blame. Other than DD.

 

[skyblade]

I wouldn’t say garbage. Probably average. But fans don’t want average.

As long as we finish above .500 in conference, I think Brannen deserves another year. But he definitely hasn't done a lot to convince me at this point.

 

[Bcatfollower]

As long as we finish above .500 in conference, I think Brannen deserves another year. But he definitely hasn't done a lot to convince me at this point.

I think his recruiting has been light years ahead of the prior coach. But he needs to do something with it.

 

[justinhub2003]

It is what it is.

The pressure to win next season at cintas is off the charts. Because even mediocre mick didn’t lose 3 in a row.

But it’s not season defining. We will still have a chance to show we are good.

But defensively, when you start 2 slow footed white guys and don’t run a zone to protect the paint, then teams will score almost 80 on 51% shooting in your own gym.


The stubbornness of all coaches annoy me. But it is what it is.. move on and get better

 

[TheLivingLegend]

I agree our guards haven't been great on defense, but you can't put all the blame on them. Vogt is horrible at pick-and-roll defense and Rap isn't much better. Teams are consistently going after them in the pick-and-roll, Xavier did it more times then you can count. Initially they went to Freemantle for the 3 off the pick-and-roll, but Freemantle missed quite a few opens one and Vogt started paying more attention to him, but that left Vogt more vulnerable to the drive. It puts the guard in a tough -near impossible - position, he needs to get around the screen and still guard the drive.

Vogt and rap are insanely limited defensively... Obviously.

But I watched alot of dribble drives blowing by guards.. and I watched alot of backdoor layups.i can stomach the pick and roll issues. I cannot stomach that stuff

 

[skyblade]

I think his recruiting has been light years ahead of the prior coach. But he needs to do something with it.

I never have and still don't put much stock in recruiting. Doing something with the players you have is what matters. So far Brannen hasn't.

 

[cincyguy13]

I think his recruiting has been light years ahead of the prior coach. But he needs to do something with it.

Agree. Recruits look good. Of the ones we have seen play, they all look like they can contribute something. Would probably be more beneficial if this was a complete rebuilding year, where all the young guys could get playing time but we have to try to win.

 

[Bcatfollower]

It is what it is.

The pressure to win next season at cintas is off the charts. Because even mediocre mick didn’t lose 3 in a row.

But it’s not season defining. We will still have a chance to show we are good.

But defensively, when you start 2 slow footed white guys and don’t run a zone to protect the paint, then teams will score almost 80 on 51% shooting in your own gym.


The stubbornness of all coaches annoy me. But it is what it is.. move on and get better

Racist

 

[Bcatfollower]

I never have and still don't put much stock in recruiting. Doing something with the players you have is what matters. So far Brannen hasn't.

Yea, no Cincinnati coach ever has