Crosstown shootout

[Kingsley Court]

Plus, my arguement was not that Mick has been more successful in their full tenures but rather Mick has been more successful than Mack in the same timeframe of the past 3 years.

I know it was, and I just don't believe it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that time frame UC has been to two NCAA tournaments, 1 first round win, and one sweet 16 blow out loss.

Xavier and Mack has been to three tournaments, one first round loss, one sweet 16 loss by 5, and one sweet 16 loss in double OT.

Take out UC and Xavier, and one team is clearly doing better than the other team, correct?

 

[Kingsley Court]

so you are saying UC had a tougher schedule? I agree.



And Presbyterian is ahead of UC?

XU started off wayyyy better than UC which included the butt whipping in Evanston. But UC finished the season better and if I recall, ended up ranked higher in final polls. XU got to the sweet 16 by beating a ND team who had been struggling and sucks on the road, and by beating a crappy 15 seed. Most XU fans were concerned of them getting into the tournament yet somehow beating those two teams totally redeemed their season?

Xavier beat the third best team in the Big East in the first round, and then got an easy second round opponent. However, if you want to play that game, who did UC beat when they got to the final four?

This past year, Xavier beat the third best team in the Big East regular season, and beat the Big East runner up by 23.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

TheLongHaul, I understand your point but for me the head to head battle for the city iswhat I was referring to. That title belongs to X. A 23 point thumping is what i base my opinion on.

 

[Thegreatone]

I know it was, and I just don't believe it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that time frame UC has been to two NCAA tournaments, 1 first round win, and one sweet 16 blow out loss.

Xavier and Mack has been to three tournaments, one first round loss, one sweet 16 loss by 5, and one sweet 16 loss in double OT.

Take out UC and Xavier, and one team is clearly doing better than the other team, correct?

If your only basis for the programs level of success is post season success i would argue they are about even.

But you are better than that. I know X fans like to descredit the regular season because it is not fun and meaningless for 80% of their conference games but it matters in measuring success.

Anyone can get lucky and get Lehigh in round 2.

Added that Mack has a team full of Mid major transfers and high risk guys that have really hurt the schools image.

Not good.

 

[Thegreatone]

TheLongHaul, I understand your point but for me the head to head battle for the city iswhat I was referring to. That title belongs to X. A 23 point thumping is what i base my opinion on.

I think thats fair but I also think that is a simple way of thinking.

 

[more cowbell]

Since you are against X taking some risk, how do you feel about Shaq Thomas or Born Ready? Stephenson may have shaped up when he got to campus, but he was not perfect before coming to UC.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Xavier beat the third best team in the Big East in the first round, and then got an easy second round opponent. However, if you want to play that game, who did UC beat when they got to the final four?

This past year, Xavier beat the third best team in the Big East regular season, and beat the Big East runner up by 23.

key words.

though I didn't realize we were discussing if last years XU team was better than UC's 1992 team.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Since you are against X taking some risk, how do you feel about Shaq Thomas or Born Ready? Stephenson may have shaped up when he got to campus, but he was not perfect before coming to UC.

Shaq Thomas wasn't a risk. LS was and a lot of UC fans were against it.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

TheGreatOne, Head to head is a very simple way of determining who is the best. Wouldn't you much rather have the title settled on the field rather then by debate? Those are the best games. Next year UC will get a chance to avenge a very lopsided loss. i hope they do.

 

[Kingsley Court]

key words.

though I didn't realize we were discussing if last years XU team was better than UC's 1992 team.

We weren't, but you said Xavier got to the sweet 16 because they didn't have to play anyone tough. Must be hard to admit, considering the third place Big East team was the first team they played.

Then, I simply said if it matters who you beat, then just look at UC's run in 92, when they got one of the easiest draws to the final four ever.

 

[Kingsley Court]

If your only basis for the programs level of success is post season success i would argue they are about even.

But you are better than that. I know X fans like to descredit the regular season because it is not fun and meaningless for 80% of their conference games but it matters in measuring success.

Anyone can get lucky and get Lehigh in round 2.

Added that Mack has a team full of Mid major transfers and high risk guys that have really hurt the schools image.

Not good.

I think post-season success is THE most important thing in judging a successful season, or how successful of a season a program had.

Also, about even? Don't think that's accurate.

 

[Bearcat22]

TheLongHaul, I understand your point but for me the head to head battle for the city iswhat I was referring to. That title belongs to X. A 23 point thumping is what i base my opinion on.

I enjoy the city bragging rights component of the game...at least when UC wins anyway. In actuality, which ever team wins the game, all you can really say is they were the best team that day.

 

[Thegreatone]

Since you are against X taking some risk, how do you feel about Shaq Thomas or Born Ready? Stephenson may have shaped up when he got to campus, but he was not perfect before coming to UC.

Shaq Thomas is not a risk. If UC having one player not qualify being determined a risk that my Xavier list explodes as Xavier is the king of partial qualifiers.

Mack is a far far cry from Skip Prosser. That isnt a bad thing in terms of winning but last year was a train wreck for X and the worst thing that could have happened is them getting a cake walk to the sweet 16 to make there fans happy.

As a student of X I think it sucks that the image of the school has been damaged by the basketball teams image.

Fact remains Xavier bball is taking more and more risks with players (Crawford, Lavender, Holloway, Lyons...) and weird transfers in order to find a way to win.

If Mack shows he can control and manage that type of team it can work but few can do that. Starting with Jcrawford and leading to holloway and lyons the players did whatever they wanted and that was clear when they vandalized butlers lockerroom, taunted Vandy players (said they wouldnt play X again), tuanted purdue, tuanted Uc bench, blindsided a player which started a brawl, held the worst press conference ever, and taunted Dayton to end the season.

Mack never showed the backbone to stop any of it. Ever. Xavier wont tolerate too many more of these incidents. They dont need to. Others can come in and win a lot of games at Xavier without all of this.

 

[Thegreatone]

I think post-season success is THE most important thing in judging a successful season, or how successful of a season a program had.

Also, about even? Don't think that's accurate.

Big East and A10tourny would have to be included in post season correct?

 

[more cowbell]

When you say Mack did nothing to stop it, do you mean Holloway, Lyons and Wells weren't suspended? They were given longer suspensions than a lot of schools would have given. Think about the ASU fight from last year or the Brittney Griner fight. I don't recall Stephenson being suspended for taunting Chris Mack. When it comes to partial qualifiers, I am perfectly fine with X taking them. There is nothing wrong with giving someone another chance to go to college. Xavier is not cheating by accepting them and on the downside they reduce the amount of players on the bench.

 

[TheLongHaul]

TheGreatOne, Head to head is a very simple way of determining who is the best. Wouldn't you much rather have the title settled on the field rather then by debate? Those are the best games. Next year UC will get a chance to avenge a very lopsided loss. i hope they do.

again, is Presbyterian the better than UC? If you say no your argument hold no water. Was Presbyterian the better team that day? Yep. Was Xavier the better team that day? Yep. That doesn't mean they were better over the course of the season. Was UC better than Syracuse because they beat them in the tournament? Nope.

We weren't, but you said Xavier got to the sweet 16 because they didn't have to play anyone tough. Must be hard to admit, considering the third place Big East team was the first team they played.

Then, I simply said if it matters who you beat, then just look at UC's run in 92, when they got one of the easiest draws to the final four ever.

It isn't hard at all to admit. Unfortunately the Big East has uneven schedules. In addition, ND went on a tear in the middle of the conference and did damage in the standings and then slid at the end. They went into the NCAA tournament off a 14 point loss to UL, lost to 18 points to GU on their last road game of the year, squeaked by Villanova in OT, and lost to SJU on the road. Not exactly a stellar way to end the season.

UC had a pretty easy draw to get to the final four in 92. Not sure what that has to do with this argument?

 

[ralph1950]

We weren't, but you said Xavier got to the sweet 16 because they didn't have to play anyone tough. Must be hard to admit, considering the third place Big East team was the first team they played.

Then, I simply said if it matters who you beat, then just look at UC's run in 92, when they got one of the easiest draws to the final four ever.

The only thing that matters about the NCAA Tournament is winning it. UC has won 2 of them.

 

[more cowbell]

The only thing that matters about the NCAA Tournament is winning it. UC has won 2 of them.

Oklahoma A&M and San Francisco also have 2 championships. I don't see top recruits lining up for those programs. What happened 50 years ago is irrelevant.

 

[Bcatfollower]

It seems the basis for the X fans argument is to discount any success U.C. has had and only recognize the slight success X has ever had.

 

[Kingsley Court]

It seems the basis for the X fans argument is to discount any success U.C. has had and only recognize the slight success X has ever had.

HUH?