Crosstown shootout

[Patrick Bateman]

As a Xavier fan, I don't post here often. I've read through a decent amount of the posts so far in this thread. With that being said, I think Mack did lose control of his ballclub for a period of time last season after the shootout. They did show a lack of maturity that a senior laden team needs in order to put something like that incident behind them. I would be lying if I didn't, at times, begin to lose faith in Mack.

With that said, and I know people will go straight to pointing to the fact that they played a 15 seed in the tournament to get to the sweet sixteen, but the fact remains they were there. They did come together towards the end of the season last year, and in many cases, Mack did out coach his opposition. Which was something that we, as Xavier fans, had not experienced a ton of during the season.

Sometimes it takes a young coach time to find his "sea legs" and learn how to coach, and how to truly take that step from the top assistant to the head coach position. I know Mick has done it, but he absolutely had to go through some growing pains as a coach, and the dismissal of Alvin Mitchell is a great example of this.

Lyons brought a ton to the table athletically. He was loud and I can certainly see where he could get under a lot of people's skin. He will get his degree, and move on to another program. I think his dismissal however, is another sign that Mack is taking that next step in becoming a good coach. Sometimes tough decisions need to be made.

Finally, Yes, those players that the greatone pointed out did transfer out of the program, but in each one of those instances (with the exception of Lyons) that player was not going to see significant time throughout their career. This can happen for various reason, but Canty and Latham both left to be closer to home, and Mckenzie was the product of 3 months of AAU ball. I'm not saying that Mack is at the point where he is a great, or even a good coach, but as a fan of the program, I do believe that he is taking the right steps to becoming a more complete coach.

I agree with some of your points about Mack and the X program in general. I am not sold on Mack's coaching and them gelling at the end of the year. They beat Dayton by 1 pt. and needed an 15/2 upset that hadn't happened in a decade to get into the S16.

There is definitely something going on at X with all of the transfers and now X just lost their top recruiter.

Also, if this is one decision that Mack had to make to benefit the team, and Mack is taking the steps to becoming a complete coach by dismissing Lyons, then why does he take another transfer that has had notable issues and has been kicked out of games and did not have his scholly renewed by former school. This is on top of recruiting and getting a verbal from a player that has been to 6 HS's in 3 years, known for being a hot head and yelling at players and referees and being labeled as "difficult to coach," in Thomas. The defections recently from assistant coaches and players in the past 2 years is glaring.

 

[Kingsley Court]

The amount of transfers under Mack is getting impressive.

Brian Walsh, Mark Lyons, Jay Canty, Jordan Latham, and Griffin McKenzie in a whopping 3 years.

Honestly, if you look at that list, besides Lyons, who is graduating, most of those players just didn't have what it takes to play good D1 ball. They were highly regarded out of college, but just didn't pan out.

I believe there are well over 250 transfers so far this year in division 1 college basketball. It is becoming more and more common, IMO. It's not rare to have players transfer, or it isn't as rare as it once was.

 

[Thegreatone]

Honestly, if you look at that list, besides Lyons, who is graduating, most of those players just didn't have what it takes to play good D1 ball. They were highly regarded out of college, but just didn't pan out.

I believe there are well over 250 transfers so far this year in division 1 college basketball. It is becoming more and more common, IMO. It's not rare to have players transfer, or it isn't as rare as it once was.

I heard that another assistant coach is leaving? He has been unable to keep assistant coaches now too which I have heard some reasoning behind.

I like Mack. I always say he is a great follow on twitter and seems down to earth to me.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I heard that another assistant coach is leaving? He has been unable to keep assistant coaches now too which I have heard some reasoning behind.

I like Mack. I always say he is a great follow on twitter and seems down to earth to me.

I know a lot about Mack and some behind the scene stuff at Xavier. I have a source very close to the program and coach Mack himself. Matter of fact my source there is closer to the head coach then my source for UC. I can tell you that Mack is glad to be rid of Holloway and Lyons and would not have been too upset had Holloway not come back last season. Wonderful, but very disruptive talents on the floor and in the locker room.

 

[ralph1950]

Of course Mick doesn't want to keep playing it. The best team he has had while at UC just got embarrassed by 23 by his crosstown rival. Mick is scared, I think that's pretty clear.

He has already said he doesn't want it to continue, lets see if the UC administration backs it's coach, or chooses to go against their coach. Will be interesting to see.

The score of the game was immediately forgotten when the brawl erupted. When your dad and the head football coach and his wife have blue paint thrown on them, when Kenny Freese jumps on a table and swats the associate head coach's wife's cell phone from her hands, when it is posted on YouTube a video of XU students chanting f*** UC for all the world to see, why would you ever play that team again.

Every time UC or X played on ESPN or CBS after the brawl, a video of the brawl was shown during the game.

UC is throwing X a major, major, bone by agreeing to continue to play at US Bank Arena.

 

[Thegreatone]

The score of the game was immediately forgotten when the brawl erupted. When your dad and the head football coach and his wife have blue paint thrown on them, when Kenny Freese jumps on a table and swats the associate head coach's wife's cell phone from her hands, when it is posted on YouTube a video of XU students chanting f*** UC for all the world to see, why would you ever play that team again.

Every time UC or X played on ESPN or CBS after the brawl, a video of the brawl was shown during the game.

UC is throwing X a major, major, bone by agreeing to continue to play at US Bank Arena.

It is funny how X fans downplay the fight and UC fans react so strongly (perhaps over react). I think that comes from the responses the coaches had.

If we have a suitable replacement I would go ahead and do it. That replacement might be IU if rumors are correct.

 

[more cowbell]

If we have a suitable replacement I would go ahead and do it. That replacement might be IU if rumors are correct.

The only rumor about IU replacing X is coming from Ralph. UC might be able to schedule IU, but that doesn't replace the shootout. Everyone on this board knows UC has plenty of room in their OOC schedule to fit a quality opponent.

 

[Thegreatone]

The only rumor about IU replacing X is coming from Ralph. UC might be able to schedule IU, but that doesn't replace the shootout. Everyone on this board knows UC has plenty of room in their OOC schedule to fit a quality opponent.

More people than Ralph are hearing the IU rumors. In fact I think I posted what I heard in a thread earlier. I have heard numerous times that IU is very likely and that the shootout would not be played at Cintas again...

 

[bearcat jeff]

It is funny how X fans downplay the fight and UC fans react so strongly (perhaps over react). I think that comes from the responses the coaches had.

If we have a suitable replacement I would go ahead and do it. That replacement might be IU if rumors are correct.

Crean and Cronin are friends. I've heard the IU rumors but not to replace the Shootout, unless there can't be an agreement to play it t a nuetral site going forth.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Of course Mick doesn't want to keep playing it. The best team he has had while at UC just got embarrassed by 23 by his crosstown rival. Mick is scared, I think that's pretty clear.

He has already said he doesn't want it to continue, lets see if the UC administration backs it's coach, or chooses to go against their coach. Will be interesting to see.

Ridiculous. Xavier was playing some of the best ball in the country prior to the brawl. UC beat Xavier by 20 the year before. Gotta come up with something better than that.

 

[cincycpaw]

It is funny how X fans downplay the fight and UC fans react so strongly (perhaps over react). I think that comes from the responses the coaches had.

If we have a suitable replacement I would go ahead and do it. That replacement might be IU if rumors are correct.

There is no "perhaps". UC fans have continued to over react to this brawl since it happened.

 

[bearcat jeff]

There is no "perhaps". UC fans have continued to over react to this brawl since it happened.

Much of the overreaction comes from ESPN and others playing it over and over every time UC played. The Georgetown game in the BEast tourny was a prime example. They never once mentioned the Georgetown brawl in China but they linked UC's entire season to the Brawl.

 

[Kingsley Court]

Ridiculous. Xavier was playing some of the best ball in the country prior to the brawl. UC beat Xavier by 20 the year before. Gotta come up with something better than that.

What's ridiculous? Him being scared? That was said as a joke, kind of.

But seriously, Mick said he didn't want to play the game anymore, I wonder if the UC administration will back Mick, or go behind his back and continue the series. It will certainly be interesting.

 

[ralph1950]

What's ridiculous? Him being scared? That was said as a joke, kind of.

But seriously, Mick said he didn't want to play the game anymore, I wonder if the UC administration will back Mick, or go behind his back and continue the series. It will certainly be interesting.

Nothing interesting about it at all, it simply is what it is. If Whit or Greg tells Mick the game will be played at US Bank Arena he will be there coaching the team.

 

[ucdave]

Looks like nothing has been decided yet.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2012/04/25/no-decision-yet-on-crosstown-shootout/

 

[Thegreatone]

What's ridiculous? Him being scared? That was said as a joke, kind of.

But seriously, Mick said he didn't want to play the game anymore, I wonder if the UC administration will back Mick, or go behind his back and continue the series. It will certainly be interesting.

Mick has hardly made a stand on this issue. He made a comment during his post game presser after a brawl.

You are trying to stir things and you continue to fail.

 

[Thegreatone]

Looks like nothing has been decided yet.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2012/04/25/no-decision-yet-on-crosstown-shootout/

I firmly and honestly believe that this game will be/ should be cancelled because Xavier fans have taken the hatred to a new level.

Xavier players hit UC players 3 out of the last 4 years and this year UC players hit back. Sadly, it was Yancy who fought back and when yancy fights it usually ends bad.

4 years ago: Kenny Frease headbuts Yancy Gates.
2 years ago: Tu takes swing at Thomas and connects with elbow
Last year: Tu slaps Guyn; Wells shoves Guyn

Sooner or later a UC player was going to snap. Yancy was tired of dealing with it. Take into consideration the frustrating lost last year and someone had to do something.

Why should UC continue to play against a team that is clearly unable to play a clean game. How many chances do we need to give them? 3 problems in 4 years is enough for me.

Get them out.

 

[BearcatMick]

Xavier is all thugs. Mick recruits classy talented players and it's a shame they were brought down to Xavier's level that day. One thing is for certain, mick is a much much better coach than Mack. Mick will win a national championship soon. He has already established himself as one of if not the best coach in the country

Mack should have been fired for his antics the last 3 years but he learns from higher ups. X is rotten from the top down

 

[Thegreatone]

Xavier is all thugs. Mick recruits classy talented players and it's a shame they were brought down to Xavier's level that day. One thing is for certain, mick is a much much better coach than Mack. Mick will win a national championship soon. He has already established himself as one of if not the best coach in the country

Mack should have been fired for his antics the last 3 years but he learns from higher ups. X is rotten from the top down

You lose credibility when you are so one sided.

 

[BearcatMick]

You lose credibility when you are so one sided.

Naturally you cannot refute any of my points I see. Ad hominem attacks show your desperation