Micks Philosophy needs to change.

[ralph1950]

Obviously, Tom Crean inherited a similar situation at Indiana, was 6-25 in his 1st year, but was 27-9 in year 4, with a trip to the Sweet 16, won the Big Ten Championship outright in year 5, along with getting to the #1 ranking in the nation, and a 29-7 record, and another sweet 16 appearance. He also has landed some big-time recruits along the way. During our 15 or so years in the nineties and early 2000s, we consistently were ranked higher and out-performed IU. So, I believe he performed the way that any great coach would have performed and he has that program back near the top in a reasonable amount of time.

A few years ago, people on these sites would routinely bring up Crean to support their argument for Mick. It was because Mick out-performed him in the 1st three years. Now we never hear Crean's name mentioned anymore for some strange reason. Wonder why?

Crean is not doing so well this year. Indiana is 8-3 but has only beat the cupcakes, squeaking by LIU Brooklyn by 1 point. Crean's won loss record at IU is worse than Mick's at UC. The situation that Crean started with at IU was much better than what Mick started with at UC. Indiana fans did not quit on the school, they still showed up 17,000 for most every game. Cody Zeller did not grow up in Cincinnati wanting to play for UC, he grew up in Indiana wanting to play for IU. Cincinnati high school basketball has not produced any McDonald's All-Americans recently. Mick got the best player to come out of Cincinnati while he has been UC's head coach, Yancy Gates, and got a commitment from the second best player Chane Behanan, unfortunately his Mom moved him to Bowling Green, KY. He got the best player out of Cincinnati last year, KJ.

 

[L-T]

There are 330 teams in college basketball and you rattled off 1% of D1 coaches. There is definite risk and nothing is certain in college basketball and more fail than succeed. I think that if Cronin were to look at hiring a former NBA'er like Van Exel it would bode well for recruiting and for the offense.

I've heard this lame statement a thousand times in here..."Lets not talk about replacing Cronin until you name someone who would replace him." I'm sorry, but that is just a ridiculous thing to say. I wasn't trying to name "all" the possibilities,just make a point that on any given day, there are plenty of great coaches in D1, D2, or D3 and other places just waiting for the same opportunity all the HoF coaches got at some point in their career. That's why you have a search committee.

I do like your suggestion of Nick Van Exel though. I haven't been following him lately. Is he coaching somewhere now?

 

[ralph1950]

Nobody had an idea who would replace Tony Yates either. We had just come thru 10 years of futility and losing, a couple probations, one year in which every single recruit was a Prop 48 and had to sit out the whole season. We picked an obscure name coach that nobody had ever heard of, who was handed a team of basically 4 players. In his press conference, he said he wanted to win a national championship and hang banners. We all laughed and chuckled, but we loved the brashness of the statement. He had to recruit a short chunky player from our football team to start and play forward. He had to move a juco forward recruit over to play point guard, where he had never played in his life. In his 1st game ever, he defeated one of the better Big 10 teams and went on to take this joke of a team to the NIT. Two years later, he had us in the final 4. When some in here speak of the miracle that Mick Cronin has accomplished, it is light years behind taking the piece of crap that our program was in the 80s and in three years putting us in the Final 4.

So, we will always have no idea who will replace a coach until we start the process and our talented AD and president evaluate all the candidates, known and unknown, and do the interviews and make the decision. We always hear about our finances, but we somehow found a lot more money to pay Tommy Tuberville than we were paying Butch Jones. Who knew Buzz Williams? Who knew Brad Stephens? Who knew Shaka Smart? Who knew Mark Few? There are great coaches all over the college basketball landscape just waiting for their first great opportunity like the one we gave the obscure coach we hired in the late 80s.

That guy that took over for Tony also got UC put on NCAA probation and greatly soiled the reputation of the University with the 0% graduation rates and players known more for their police blotters than their basketball skills.

 

[#BearcatNation]

I've heard this lame statement a thousand times in here..."Lets not talk about replacing Cronin until you name someone who would replace him." I'm sorry, but that is just a ridiculous thing to say. I wasn't trying to name "all" the possibilities,just make a point that on any given day, there are plenty of great coaches in D1, D2, or D3 and other places just waiting for the same opportunity all the HoF coaches got at some point in their career. That's why you have a search committee.

I do like your suggestion of Nick Van Exel though. I haven't been following him lately. Is he coaching somewhere now?

Assistant for the Milwaukee Bucks. Unless as head coach, coming here would be a huge downgrade.

 

[L-T]

Crean is not doing so well this year. Indiana is 8-3 but has only beat the cupcakes, squeaking by LIU Brooklyn by 1 point. Crean's won loss record at IU is worse than Mick's at UC. The situation that Crean started with at IU was much better than what Mick started with at UC. Indiana fans did not quit on the school, they still showed up 17,000 for most every game. Cody Zeller did not grow up in Cincinnati wanting to play for UC, he grew up in Indiana wanting to play for IU. Cincinnati high school basketball has not produced any McDonald's All-Americans recently. Mick got the best player to come out of Cincinnati while he has been UC's head coach, Yancy Gates, and got a commitment from the second best player Chane Behanan, unfortunately his Mom moved him to Bowling Green, KY. He got the best player out of Cincinnati last year, KJ.

Mick is not doing so well this year either, and he hasn't gotten us near the #1 ranking and a league championship that Crean produced in only 5 years. Chane Behanen did grow up here, and decided, after committing to Mick, to cancel that commitment and play for the program that Mick helped to dethrone us...our #1 rival. We once owned the state of Ohio with recruits, and the city of Cincinnati. Under Mick, we've lost all advantages we once owned. I watched Yancy Gates for 4 years. Never did he look better than what I saw from Chane Behanen last year. If Yancy was the best, than Chane certainly passed him by and that points to Mick's ability to develop talent. Yancy>>>>NBA BODY, great skills, 4 years with Mick....hasn't sniffed the NBA. That's pretty sad!

 

[TheLongHaul]

Mick is not doing so well this year either, and he hasn't gotten us near the #1 ranking and a league championship that Crean produced in only 5 years. Chane Behanen did grow up here, and decided, after committing to Mick, to cancel that commitment and play for the program that Mick helped to dethrone us...our #1 rival. We once owned the state of Ohio with recruits, and the city of Cincinnati. Under Mick, we've lost all advantages we once owned. I watched Yancy Gates for 4 years. Never did he look better than what I saw from Chane Behanen last year. If Yancy was the best, than Chane certainly passed him by and that points to Mick's ability to develop talent. Yancy>>>>NBA BODY, great skills, 4 years with Mick....hasn't sniffed the NBA. That's pretty sad!

At this point in Chane's career, Yancy has easily been better. Yancy was always the focal point for the opposing defense and yet still put up good numbers along with a number of games that he dominated. And that was with no interior help and very little exterior help. Chane isn't close to that and he is on one of the best teams in the country.

 

[L-T]

That guy that took over for Tony also got UC put on NCAA probation and greatly soiled the reputation of the University with the 0% graduation rates and players known more for their police blotters than their basketball skills.

Alvin Mitchell, Octavious Ellis, Yancy "the Brown Bomber" Gates.....Mick has had his bad apples too. And, it was nice of the NCAA to finally change their ridiculous guidelines of not giving graduation credit for JUCOS. You can snow the unimformed with that 0% graduation rate BS Ralph, but we know the real story.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Mick is not doing so well this year either, and he hasn't gotten us near the #1 ranking and a league championship that Crean produced in only 5 years. Chane Behanen did grow up here, and decided, after committing to Mick, to cancel that commitment and play for the program that Mick helped to dethrone us...our #1 rival. We once owned the state of Ohio with recruits, and the city of Cincinnati. Under Mick, we've lost all advantages we once owned. I watched Yancy Gates for 4 years. Never did he look better than what I saw from Chane Behanen last year. If Yancy was the best, than Chane certainly passed him by and that points to Mick's ability to develop talent. Yancy>>>>NBA BODY, great skills, 4 years with Mick....hasn't sniffed the NBA. That's pretty sad!

Yancy sat around all day smoking weed and not giving a crap. I'll give Cronin a little blame, but he wasted his own natural talent.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I've heard this lame statement a thousand times in here..."Lets not talk about replacing Cronin until you name someone who would replace him." I'm sorry, but that is just a ridiculous thing to say. I wasn't trying to name "all" the possibilities,just make a point that on any given day, there are plenty of great coaches in D1, D2, or D3 and other places just waiting for the same opportunity all the HoF coaches got at some point in their career. That's why you have a search committee.

I do like your suggestion of Nick Van Exel though. I haven't been following him lately. Is he coaching somewhere now?

You would be correct if Mick wasn't successful. Mick has made 3 straight NCAA tournaments and has a top 25 recruiting class coming in next year. If you want to get rid of him you sure as hell get someone better, not just some risky up and comer, leave that for the struggling programs...

 

[L-T]

At this point in Chane's career, Yancy has easily been better. Yancy was always the focal point for the opposing defense and yet still put up good numbers along with a number of games that he dominated. And that was with no interior help and very little exterior help. Chane isn't close to that and he is on one of the best teams in the country.

With all that talent, the NBA wanted no part of him. I'll bet Chane plays in the NBA. You want to take that bet? Don't you think the NBA scouts would take the fact that he was some huge focal point of all defenses into consideration? Wonder why that didn't impress them? If he was a focal point, it was probably because, as usual, nobody else on the team could shoot. Why not double the only guy who might hurt you? Again, the NBA is the ultimate judge. They didn't think much of Yancy's talent.

 

[Bcatfollower]

That was a very tall order in the BEast. Now in the AAC we should compete for both.

Not that tall...as someone tried to mention before all the great programs mick has beat in his tenure...yet when someone brings up a real point the excuses come out again.

And you're arguing against yourself by your statement... a mediocre team can compete for a conf championship in a weak to mediocre conf but not in a conf with good programs....guess mick isn't that great?

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

With all that talent, the NBA wanted no part of him. I'll bet Chane plays in the NBA. You want to take that bet? Don't you think the NBA scouts would take the fact that he was some huge focal point of all defenses into consideration? Wonder why that didn't impress them? If he was a focal point, it was probably because, as usual, nobody else on the team could shoot. Why not double the only guy who might hurt you? Again, the NBA is the ultimate judge. They didn't think much of Yancy's talent.

Yancy played with the Detroit Piston in the summer league and opted to play overseas rather than go to the NBDL.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Really? Like when we were ranked #8 last year and still averaged like 6500? That wasn't enough reason? I get that the weak OOC doesn't help, but it isn't simply the product on the field. We all know our fan base is unbelievably flaky.

We were ranked 8 for week after beating no one and promptly lost to New Mexico... that gets the fan base pumped.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

We were ranked 8 for week after beating no one and promptly lost to New Mexico... that gets the fan base pumped.

Cincinnati defeated Oregon and Iowa State to that point, both of which were tournament teams (and 2 of the 3 best wins UC had all year)....

 

[ralph1950]

With all that talent, the NBA wanted no part of him. I'll bet Chane plays in the NBA. You want to take that bet? Don't you think the NBA scouts would take the fact that he was some huge focal point of all defenses into consideration? Wonder why that didn't impress them? If he was a focal point, it was probably because, as usual, nobody else on the team could shoot. Why not double the only guy who might hurt you? Again, the NBA is the ultimate judge. They didn't think much of Yancy's talent.

Wrong again. Chane's mom moved him out of Cincinnati to Bowling Green because he was running with the "wrong crowd". She refused to let him return to Cincinnati for fear that he would renew his old acquaintances. There was nothing Mick could do in this situation to keep Chane coming to UC.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Not that tall...as someone tried to mention before all the great programs mick has beat in his tenure...yet when someone brings up a real point the excuses come out again.

And you're arguing against yourself by your statement... a mediocre team can compete for a conf championship in a weak to mediocre conf but not in a conf with good programs....guess mick isn't that great?

Really, not a tall order to not only a complete rebuild but in the most competitive conference ever? Not an excuse just the facts.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Cincinnati defeated Oregon and Iowa State to that point, both of which were tournament teams (and 2 of the 3 best wins UC had all year)....

all within the same week...

 

[Bearcat04]

Obviously, Tom Crean inherited a similar situation at Indiana, was 6-25 in his 1st year, but was 27-9 in year 4, with a trip to the Sweet 16, won the Big Ten Championship outright in year 5, along with getting to the #1 ranking in the nation, and a 29-7 record, and another sweet 16 appearance. He also has landed some big-time recruits along the way. During our 15 or so years in the nineties and early 2000s, we consistently were ranked higher and out-performed IU. So, I believe he performed the way that any great coach would have performed and he has that program back near the top in a reasonable amount of time.

A few years ago, people on these sites would routinely bring up Crean to support their argument for Mick. It was because Mick out-performed him in the 1st three years. Now we never hear Crean's name mentioned anymore for some strange reason. Wonder why?

His name shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place, because the two situations aren't comparable. If Mick had a top 10 budget (IU spent $9,264,091 last year) and outstanding fan support (IU finished 5th in attendance last year-17,412 per game), then I'd absolutely agree that one Sweet 16 wouldn't be enough. Unfortunately, UC athletics don't live in that world. The lack of money is not a death knell, as we saw the program get great results in the early 90's, but it took a HOF level coach to get that much more out of less. Good luck finding another one of those guys though. That doesn't mean that we should just stick with Mick until he decides to retire, but I have a hard time holding him to elite results when nothing about the support of the program (budget/arena/fan support) is elite.

Right now this is a pretty good program, with pretty good support, that is getting pretty good results.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Really, not a tall order to not only a complete rebuild but in the most competitive coence ever? Not an excuse just the facts.

Just sayin all the apologist throw out the same junk about being a great recruiter, rebuilding a program, beating good programs... yet when you look at what matters he hasnt done squat. I'm prepared at this point to get dominated by uconn, memphis, and possibly temple and smu year in and year out under this leadership.... but hey fourth or fifth isn't last, right?

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

His name shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place, because the two situations aren't comparable. If Mick had a top 10 budget (IU spent $9,264,091 last year) and outstanding fan support (IU finished 5th in attendance last year-17,412 per game), then I'd absolutely agree that one Sweet 16 wouldn't be enough. Unfortunately, UC athletics don't live in that world. The lack of money is not a death knell, as we saw the program get great results in the early 90's, but it took a HOF level coach to get that much more out of less. Good luck finding another one of those guys though. That doesn't mean that we should just stick with Mick until he decides to retire, but I have a hard time holding him to elite results when nothing about the support of the program (budget/arena/fan support) is elite.

Right now this is a pretty good program, with pretty good support, that is getting pretty good results.

Indiana has made back to back Sweet 16's as a 1 and 4 seed, not exactly amazing results. Besides one Dwyane Wade led year, Crean has had no tournament success...