Micks Philosophy needs to change.

[UCBearcats]

I agree with some of your points but where I think you are wrong is this. Yes Mick does want to slow the opponent down and get them in half court offense...but he does NOT want us to be in a half court offense.

He wants to press and he won't/can't when we don't make the baskets. Simple. Make baskets and we press. He has said that in pressers. That's our problem...we can't score the ball.

How do you start a press off a defensive rebound (since it depends where it goes)? You may have a strategy but it will be inconsistent...the only consistent press strategy is when you know where the ball is going to be inbounded from...IE...after made buckets.

Then set your team up on the offensive end to score the damn ball. He is the head coach, the entire product of this basketball team is his responsibility. Mick got flat out out-coached on Saturday night and good teams will continue to use the same philosophy until Mick makes an adjustment. Coaches know we only have one player on the offensive end who can score and if they're big enough they can neutralize JJ and TitRub underneath the basket. We got open looks in the Shootout but we got the open looks they wanted us to get.

I said from the start of the season I didn't have high hopes for this team so I'm not surprised by the last two losses. Our current roster just isn't very good. I like what I see from KJ and TC so far but are they next level players?? Will it even matter if we continue to run the same offense we've ran for the last 8 years? Will Jermaine become a force or just another athletic combo forward who never seems to fit quite into the grand scheme of things?? Will Shaq Thomas decide to take his talents to the baseball diamond where his flat fastball shot might actually translate well into pitching??

Too many questions, not enough answers. Mick doesn't get my blind faith support like he does for many of you. Right now this team isn't very good, next year we'll probably be worse. What happens after that?? Does just making the tourney once in the next 2 or 3 years mean we're on track?? When do we ever get to the next level??

 

[ucswais]

Here's the thing. Good coaches make adjustments. Two teams in a row have exposed you. They've exposed you on the boards. They've exposed you on the interior, They've exposed your offensive ineptness. Mick has to make adjustments and it needs to start with line up changes. Personally I wouldn't mind them pressing and then dropping back into a zone. They can't rebound anyway and this would help them protect the interior. With their length, athleticism and quickness they should be able to collapse and recover out. Then you can shorten your bench without fear of fatigue.

I think a big part of the fix for both interior and rebounding is simple, let Jackson play. Every time he sits, the other team starts piling up layups and rebounds. I understand he fouls a lot. I don't care. If he fouls out of a game with 10 minutes left once in a while, I will live with it knowing we got as much time with him on the floor as we could. In the mean time, Mick's insistence on sitting him for 15 minutes at a time because he's on pace to ALMOST foul out is costing us dearly IMO. Sitting him because of 1 foul was wrong. Sitting him the rest of the half every time with 2 is terrible strategy. Doing both while you are getting abused inside and the game becomes out of reach is just crazy.

I still stand by Cronin's track record and he has my support overall. I think his sub patterns (esp with regard to fouls) drives me more crazy than even the half court offense ever will.

 

[ucswais]

Then set your team up on the offensive end to score the damn ball. He is the head coach, the entire product of this basketball team is his responsibility. Mick got flat out out-coached on Saturday night and good teams will continue to use the same philosophy until Mick makes an adjustment. Coaches know we only have one player on the offensive end who can score and if they're big enough they can neutralize JJ and TitRub underneath the basket. We got open looks in the Shootout but we got the open looks they wanted us to get.

I said from the start of the season I didn't have high hopes for this team so I'm not surprised by the last two losses. Our current roster just isn't very good. I like what I see from KJ and TC so far but are they next level players?? Will it even matter if we continue to run the same offense we've ran for the last 8 years? Will Jermaine become a force or just another athletic combo forward who never seems to fit quite into the grand scheme of things?? Will Shaq Thomas decide to take his talents to the baseball diamond where his flat fastball shot might actually translate well into pitching??

Too many questions, not enough answers. Mick doesn't get my blind faith support like he does for many of you. Right now this team isn't very good, next year we'll probably be worse. What happens after that?? Does just making the tourney once in the next 2 or 3 years mean we're on track?? When do we ever get to the next level??

So what is your suggestion? We will cross that bridge if it happens. You don't fire a coach because you think you might stop being good at some point. If the team trends backwards the next 3 years as you predict, let's have the discussion. Until then, it isn't productive.

 

[UCBearcats]

So what is your suggestion? We will cross that bridge if it happens. You don't fire a coach because you think you might stop being good at some point. If the team trends backwards the next 3 years as you predict, let's have the discussion. Until then, it isn't productive.

I don't know man, I'm just venting. This is a UC discussion board, nothing that happens on this board is either productive or unproductive. It's just people having discussions about UC hoops.


I don't think Mick is that good, I don't think he's done that great of a job and I feel like our program is suffering. If I can convince anyone else to feel the same way then maybe things change at some point. If enough people start to care and make some noise maybe we can save UC bball before it's too late. Although at this point I fear it is too late and the window has closed. We have allowed XU to jump us. We are now just an afterthought, the idea of UC as a big time basketball program is too far gone.

Way too much apathy coming from our fan base as it relates to bball these days.

 

[Bearcat22]

Here's the thing. Good coaches make adjustments. Two teams in a row have exposed you. They've exposed you on the boards. They've exposed you on the interior, They've exposed your offensive ineptness. Mick has to make adjustments and it needs to start with line up changes. Personally I wouldn't mind them pressing and then dropping back into a zone. They can't rebound anyway and this would help them protect the interior. With their length, athleticism and quickness they should be able to collapse and recover out. Then you can shorten your bench without fear of fatigue.

I agree with your assessment. However, I'm not sure Mick operates that way. His stubborn nature helped rebuild the program but that same stubbornness might prevent him from elevating the program further. I've been pro-Mick since his hire. I'm resigned to believe that this is what we're going to get from his teams each season. We'll win 20+ plus games, have a stagnant offense, gritty defense, probably make the tournament, but never really be a threat for a final four.

For the first time, I think I'd be ok if another team tried to poach him away from UC in the off-season. To not just win, but win over the fan base, we need a more dynamic, forward thinking, and engaging leader. We might look down at Brian Kelly now, but that's the type of personality the Cats need at the helm. I'm not saying hire this guy, but a Bruce Pearl (I know he comes with baggage) type is what we need.

 

[ucswais]

I don't know man, I'm just venting. This is a UC discussion board, nothing that happens on this board is either productive or unproductive. It's just people having discussions about UC hoops.


I don't think Mick is that good, I don't think he's done that great of a job and I feel like our program is suffering. If I can convince anyone else to feel the same way then maybe things change at some point. If enough people start to care and make some noise maybe we can save UC bball before it's too late. Although at this point I fear it is too late and the window has closed. We have allowed XU to jump us. We are now just an afterthought, the idea of UC as a big time basketball program is too far gone.

Way too much apathy coming from our fan base as it relates to bball these days.

I think a lot of what you're talking about is just the state of college basketball. Regardless of how much we love it, it's a niche sport now. I think our fans are becoming apathetic in line with what is happening nationwide. You could say the same for student attendance. It just doesn't have casual appeal anymore IMO.

As for XU jumping us, what was the last year they had a better season than us? I think you're just feeling that way because of one game. Trust me, you aren't the only one feeling emotional about the loss. Rivalries have a way of making everyone lose sight of the big picture, myself included.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I agree with your assessment. However, I'm not sure Mick operates that way. His stubborn nature helped rebuild the program but that same stubbornness might prevent him from elevating the program further. I've been pro-Mick since his hire. I'm resigned to believe that this is what we're going to get from his teams each season. We'll win 20+ plus games, have a stagnant offense, gritty defense, probably make the tournament, but never really be a threat for a final four.

For the first time, I think I'd be ok if another team tried to poach him away from UC in the off-season. To not just win, but win over the fan base, we need a more dynamic, forward thinking, and engaging leader. We might look down at Brian Kelly now, but that's the type of personality the Cats need at the helm. I'm not saying hire this guy, but a Bruce Pearl (I know he comes with baggage) type is what we need.

Agree with the first paragraph. Mick hasn't been one to make adjustments to his personnel or his philosophy. The only time he did was when his hand was forced after the brawl. That year prior to the brawl the offense sucked and he still waited until after the X game to make adjustments. Same thing here - if he can't figure out that his offense just does not work he never will. It is one of the worst offenses I can ever remember watching.

He also should be giving the minutes to Caupain, KJ, and JL and bench Guyn and Sanders unless they are needed to provide a rest to those three. We'll see if he changes anything before another big game.

 

[UCBearcats]

I think a lot of what you're talking about is just the state of college basketball. Regardless of how much we love it, it's a niche sport now. I think our fans are becoming apathetic in line with what is happening nationwide. You could say the same for student attendance. It just doesn't have casual appeal anymore IMO.

As for XU jumping us, what was the last year they had a better season than us? I think you're just feeling that way because of one game. Trust me, you aren't the only one feeling emotional about the loss. Rivalries have a way of making everyone lose sight of the big picture, myself included.

I promise you I'm not looking at just one game. Since Mick has been here XU has been to 4 sweet 16's and an Elite 8. They have a shiny new(er) arena, a passionate fan base, and now they're in the Big East and we're in the AAC. They currently have a top 10 recruiting class lined up. The writing is on the wall here, if they haven't jumped us yet it's coming very soon.

I've been saying this since year 4 under Mick. Everyone called me crazy but now this is where we are. We're just not that good and we're getting worse or staying flat. Every year that goes by we lose more and more credibility. I don't think it's a basketball problem like you say it is. I think it's just because UC hoops hasn't given it's fans a whole lot to be excited about. If you look at the schools still having success basketball is still a big deal.

 

[ucswais]

I promise you I'm not looking at just one game. Since Mick has been here XU has been to 4 sweet 16's and an Elite 8. They have a shiny new(er) arena, a passionate fan base, and now they're in the Big East and we're in the AAC. They currently have a top 10 recruiting class lined up. The writing is on the wall here, if they haven't jumped us yet it's coming very soon.

I've been saying this since year 4 under Mick. Everyone called me crazy but now this is where we are. We're just not that good and we're getting worse or staying flat. Every year that goes by we lose more and more credibility. I don't think it's a basketball problem like you say it is. I think it's just because UC hoops hasn't given it's fans a whole lot to be excited about. If you look at the schools still having success basketball is still a big deal.

I'm not sure that what XU did 5-8 years ago under a different coach means they passed us today. If anything I would say that they were ahead for several years and we finally passed them back the last few years.

 

[UCBearcats]

I'm not sure that what XU did 5-8 years ago under a different coach means they passed us today. If anything I would say that they were ahead for several years and we finally passed them back the last few years.

I guess it just depends how you look at it. I don't view a program in a single moment in time. In order to judge how good a program is you have to look at past, present and future. If you look at recent past (10 years) and into the future I feel like XU has the edge. I'd say the present is pretty much a wash but since they just creamed us they get the edge at the current time.

We can change our future if we want, although looking at where both programs are currently I don't see how ours looks brighter.

 

[JackBauer151]

I guess it just depends how you look at it. I don't view a program in a single moment in time. In order to judge how good a program is you have to look at past, present and future. If you look at recent past (10 years) and into the future I feel like XU has the edge. I'd say the present is pretty much a wash but since they just creamed us they get the edge at the current time.

We can change our future if we want, although looking at where both programs are currently I don't see how ours looks brighter.

I dont like this discussion simply because as you just pointed out things can change so suddenly in terms of perception. They didnt make the tournament last year while playing in the A10. That is 100% inexcusable as a "high major" program. They shouldnt have made it the year of the brawl except again they played in that mickey mouse conference and won the conference tournament. Their resume' without that tournament win does not get them in the dance. Then in true Xavier fashion they get incredibly lucky by Duke losing to Lehigh and go to the sweet 16. They very well may miss it again this year with a much tougher conference schedule. I know they have a good class coming in on paper but dont let them whooping us take away from the big picture. Just as Mick I think its fair to have some serious concerns about Mack as well.

 

[UCBearcats]

I dont like this discussion simply because as you just pointed out things can change so suddenly in terms of perception. They didnt make the tournament last year while playing in the A10. That is 100% inexcusable as a "high major" program. They shouldnt have made it the year of the brawl except again they played in that mickey mouse conference and won the conference tournament. Their resume' without that tournament win does not get them in the dance. Then in true Xavier fashion they get incredibly lucky by Duke losing to Lehigh and go to the sweet 16. They very well may miss it again this year with a much tougher conference schedule. I know they have a good class coming in on paper but dont let them whooping us take away from the big picture. Just as Mick I think its fair to have some serious concerns about Mack as well.

I don't like this discussion either, it just goes back and forth back and forth forever. I just want us to be better, that's it. If Mick can do better than I'm all for it but I don't believe he can.

 

[All we do is Guyn]

Maybe it's just me trying to be optimistic about the future, but I really think most of the issues with this team fall back on the class of 2011. JDIII and Ellis are off the team, Guyn is getting outplayed by a freshman, and Jermaine Sanders and Shaq Thomas have not impressed at all. I'm sure Mick thought that class would set up and fill the shoes of Cash, Yancy, and Dixon/Parker.

Maybe is was bad recruiting, maybe it was bad development from the coach, maybe it was just bad luck. Whatever it was, imagine if we would have gotten the class of 2013 in 2011, this team would be in much better shape right now. A team with Caupain, Johnson, and Lawrence with 3 years of experience sounds pretty good to me. The huge question remains at the 5 spot, I really wish we knew how good Strickland could be

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I would like Mick to experiment with going to a 2-3 zone from the press. Some of the lesser talented Louisville teams did this under Pitino and Mick should try it.

 

[L-T]

I promise you I'm not looking at just one game. Since Mick has been here XU has been to 4 sweet 16's and an Elite 8. They have a shiny new(er) arena, a passionate fan base, and now they're in the Big East and we're in the AAC. They currently have a top 10 recruiting class lined up. The writing is on the wall here, if they haven't jumped us yet it's coming very soon.

I've been saying this since year 4 under Mick. Everyone called me crazy but now this is where we are. We're just not that good and we're getting worse or staying flat. Every year that goes by we lose more and more credibility. I don't think it's a basketball problem like you say it is. I think it's just because UC hoops hasn't given it's fans a whole lot to be excited about. If you look at the schools still having success basketball is still a big deal.

I'm going to preface what I say by voicing my personal opinion that everyone on this site and others like it are absolutely passionate and wonderful Bearcat fans, just like me. But there is a huge number of fans who don't give these sites the time of day. What UCBearcats is saying, I absolutely agree with 100%.....and I think it is a "majotity" viewpoint with the typical Bearcat fan on the street. If I come on here and say what I say, I get treated like a pariah. If I discuss this stuff with the people who sit around me at basketball and football games, or at the workplace, I can't remember the last time where anyone felt differently than me. It's literally how everyone on the street feels about UC Basketball generally, and Mick Cronin specifically. And the level of support and our attendance numbers bears that out. This site and others like it are filled with great fans who have a completely 180 degree different viewpoint of the state of UC Bearcat basketball. Now we have people on here hanging their hat on one visit to the sweet 16 in 8 years as if that validates everything about the Mick Cronin hire and somehow proves he has made this program better than it was before him. Other than graduation rates, what we have today is a shell of what we had before Cronin. He has failed miserably in bringing in good players, in winning championships, in getting us ranked, in getting us high seeds, in selling this program to the fans, etc. We are now irrelevent and an afterthought on the national level, and even more sadly, in our own city. So, what UCBearcats has been saying is correct, very unpopular on this site, but nonetheless, right on the money!

Lastly, someone on here made the point the other day about how lucky we are to have a "loyal" Bearcat alum running the program, and he'll stay here forever. Let me remind you, this coach committed one of the most "disloyal" acts in the history of this program when he left here to go help Rick Pitino get his program back ahead of us. Any true "Bearcat" would never think of leaving to go to three places ever ever ever ever ever!!!! That is X, OSU, and Loserville. I suspect that was a prime consideration why this fanbase has never come onboard with this coach. I absolutely don't buy for a minute that this guy has loyalty and will stay here forever. He has proven that unequivocally.

 

[XUArizona]

I dont like this discussion simply because as you just pointed out things can change so suddenly in terms of perception. They didnt make the tournament last year while playing in the A10. That is 100% inexcusable as a "high major" program. They shouldnt have made it the year of the brawl except again they played in that mickey mouse conference and won the conference tournament. Their resume' without that tournament win does not get them in the dance. Then in true Xavier fashion they get incredibly lucky by Duke losing to Lehigh and go to the sweet 16. They very well may miss it again this year with a much tougher conference schedule. I know they have a good class coming in on paper but dont let them whooping us take away from the big picture. Just as Mick I think its fair to have some serious concerns about Mack as well.

I am kind of with you in that I have concerns with Chris Mack. I wouldn't mind seeing his guys get better throughout their career and be more mentally tough through the season.

Tournament is about play and draw. A sweet 16 is good regardless of how you got there. Fact is CJ McCollum was hot and was playing at a high level enough to beat Puke.

That said, Cronin's teams have mostly played fantastic defense. Offense and a couple bad recruiting years have you annoyed. On my side, 3 consecutive bad recruiting years and a seemingly lack of player development has us annoyed.

 

[Amberlycolonel]

I'm going to preface what I say by voicing my personal opinion that everyone on this site and others like it are absolutely passionate and wonderful Bearcat fans, just like me. But there is a huge number of fans who don't give these sites the time of day. What UCBearcats is saying, I absolutely agree with 100%.....and I think it is a "majotity" viewpoint with the typical Bearcat fan on the street. If I come on here and say what I say, I get treated like a pariah. If I discuss this stuff with the people who sit around me at basketball and football games, or at the workplace, I can't remember the last time where anyone felt differently than me. It's literally how everyone on the street feels about UC Basketball generally, and Mick Cronin specifically. And the level of support and our attendance numbers bears that out. This site and others like it are filled with great fans who have a completely 180 degree different viewpoint of the state of UC Bearcat basketball. Now we have people on here hanging their hat on one visit to the sweet 16 in 8 years as if that validates everything about the Mick Cronin hire and somehow proves he has made this program better than it was before him. Other than graduation rates, what we have today is a shell of what we had before Cronin. He has failed miserably in bringing in good players, in winning championships, in getting us ranked, in getting us high seeds, in selling this program to the fans, etc. We are now irrelevent and an afterthought on the national level, and even more sadly, in our own city. So, what UCBearcats has been saying is correct, very unpopular on this site, but nonetheless, right on the money!

Lastly, someone on here made the point the other day about how lucky we are to have a "loyal" Bearcat alum running the program, and he'll stay here forever. Let me remind you, this coach committed one of the most "disloyal" acts in the history of this program when he left here to go help Rick Pitino get his program back ahead of us. Any true "Bearcat" would never think of leaving to go to three places ever ever ever ever ever!!!! That is X, OSU, and Loserville. I suspect that was a prime consideration why this fanbase has never come onboard with this coach. I absolutely don't buy for a minute that this guy has loyalty and will stay here forever. He has proven that unequivocally.

Have said the exact same thing for years. And have been put in the stockade for it more than once. This is a Cronin site and I have no problem with that. But if you are looking for "real solutions", this is not the place to find them.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Lastly, someone on here made the point the other day about how lucky we are to have a "loyal" Bearcat alum running the program, and he'll stay here forever. Let me remind you, this coach committed one of the most "disloyal" acts in the history of this program when he left here to go help Rick Pitino get his program back ahead of us. Any true "Bearcat" would never think of leaving to go to three places ever ever ever ever ever!!!! That is X, OSU, and Loserville. I suspect that was a prime consideration why this fanbase has never come onboard with this coach. I absolutely don't buy for a minute that this guy has loyalty and will stay here forever. He has proven that unequivocally.

You still haven't gotten over this, have you. You harped on this over and over when Mick was first hired and now it's back. But you still haven't realized that what Mick did doesn't make him disloyal. Anyone in their right mind would have done the same exact thing. Let's see: go to work under a HOF coach who was proven for developing assistants into head coaches or continue to work for a coach that had a terrible reputation among other AD's and didn't develop any assistants into head coaches. Seems like a no-brainer. And it worked out - Mick was hired as a head coach shortly after and Huggins still hasn't had any assistant coaches hired while working under him.

 

[ralph1950]

I'm going to preface what I say by voicing my personal opinion that everyone on this site and others like it are absolutely passionate and wonderful Bearcat fans, just like me. But there is a huge number of fans who don't give these sites the time of day. What UCBearcats is saying, I absolutely agree with 100%.....and I think it is a "majotity" viewpoint with the typical Bearcat fan on the street. If I come on here and say what I say, I get treated like a pariah. If I discuss this stuff with the people who sit around me at basketball and football games, or at the workplace, I can't remember the last time where anyone felt differently than me. It's literally how everyone on the street feels about UC Basketball generally, and Mick Cronin specifically. And the level of support and our attendance numbers bears that out. This site and others like it are filled with great fans who have a completely 180 degree different viewpoint of the state of UC Bearcat basketball. Now we have people on here hanging their hat on one visit to the sweet 16 in 8 years as if that validates everything about the Mick Cronin hire and somehow proves he has made this program better than it was before him. Other than graduation rates, what we have today is a shell of what we had before Cronin. He has failed miserably in bringing in good players, in winning championships, in getting us ranked, in getting us high seeds, in selling this program to the fans, etc. We are now irrelevent and an afterthought on the national level, and even more sadly, in our own city. So, what UCBearcats has been saying is correct, very unpopular on this site, but nonetheless, right on the money!

Lastly, someone on here made the point the other day about how lucky we are to have a "loyal" Bearcat alum running the program, and he'll stay here forever. Let me remind you, this coach committed one of the most "disloyal" acts in the history of this program when he left here to go help Rick Pitino get his program back ahead of us. Any true "Bearcat" would never think of leaving to go to three places ever ever ever ever ever!!!! That is X, OSU, and Loserville. I suspect that was a prime consideration why this fanbase has never come onboard with this coach. I absolutely don't buy for a minute that this guy has loyalty and will stay here forever. He has proven that unequivocally.

You need a dose of reality. Bob Huggins destroyed the UC basketball program. When Mick took over he had no players, and Huggins had left the program in APR jail. The program was facing the loss of 3 scholarships because of the academic disaster that occured under Huggins. Mick not only had to replace an entire team with JUCO's he had to do it with JUCO's who would actually graduate in two years. This also resulted in unbalanced classes. Mike DeCourcy stated if UC hired anyone but Mick it would take at least 10 years to recover. Mick had them in the NCAA Tourney in year 5, and in the Big East Tourney Championship game and the Sweet 16 in year 6. The NCAA Tourney again in year 7.

What Mick has done in resurrecting the program from the ashes that Bob Huggins left is a modern miracle.

Mick had to go to Louisville to achieve his goal of becoming a head college coach. Huggins assistants were stained by Huggins horrible academic record, they never got hired as head coaches. Rick Pitino's assistants get hired as head coaches on a yearly basis.

 

[L-T]

Have said the exact same thing for years. And have been put in the stockade for it more than once. This is a Cronin site and I have no problem with that. But if you are looking for "real solutions", this is not the place to find them.

These are passionate fans on here and I admire them for that. What's sad is the other group of fans have completely lost their passion. They've become apathetic. How strong a fan do you have to be to go to the Shoe and sit in the upper corners? I would say really passionate. We once filled those corners. Mick Cronin has failed to reinvigorate that passion in those fans. After 8 years, and some decent recent success, there are still many who don't believe and apparently are never coming back until he makes a much bigger statement....like an elite 8 or a run to the Final 4, or a major splash with a recruiting class.

I love this program and would buy season tickets no matter who is coaching. I don't sit in the stands and yell at Cronin for his coaching moves. I honestly feel like he is a pretty good bench coach. I'm just fed up with watching players who have poor basketball skills, and can't perform the basic "Basketball 101" skill of putting the ball in the basket. And, the Basketball IQ of our teams is just atrocious. Recruiting is a major percentage of a coach's job description, as is developing talent, and being the face of the program and selling it to the public, He's a pretty good Xs and Os coach, but not too good at the other three parts of the job....in my opinion. I've given him 8 years. We're still treading water as a program. Time for a change.