Micks Philosophy needs to change.

[Amberlycolonel]

You need a dose of reality. Bob Huggins destroyed the UC basketball program. When Mick took over he had no players, and Huggins had left the program in APR jail. The program was facing the loss of 3 scholarships because of the academic disaster that occured under Huggins. Mick not only had to replace an entire team with JUCO's he had to do it with JUCO's who would actually graduate in two years. This also resulted in unbalanced classes. Mike DeCourcy stated if UC hired anyone but Mick it would take at least 10 years to recover. Mick had them in the NCAA Tourney in year 5, and in the Big East Tourney Championship game and the Sweet 16 in year 6. The NCAA Tourney again in year 7.

What Mick has done in resurrecting the program from the ashes that Bob Huggins left is a modern miracle.

Mick had to go to Louisville to achieve his goal of becoming a head college coach. Huggins assistants were stained by Huggins horrible academic record, they never got hired as head coaches. Rick Pitino's assistants get hired as head coaches on a yearly basis.

Like I said, this is a Cronin site. If you want true answers to what ails us, look elsewhere. Oh, and Ralph. How long did it take Huggins to get us to a final 4 after he took over a scrapheap of a program known as the "Yate's Era"?

 

[L-T]

You still haven't gotten over this, have you. You harped on this over and over when Mick was first hired and now it's back. But you still haven't realized that what Mick did doesn't make him disloyal. Anyone in their right mind would have done the same exact thing. Let's see: go to work under a HOF coach who was proven for developing assistants into head coaches or continue to work for a coach that had a terrible reputation among other AD's and didn't develop any assistants into head coaches. Seems like a no-brainer. And it worked out - Mick was hired as a head coach shortly after and Huggins still hasn't had any assistant coaches hired while working under him.

Sorry, but I'll correct you once again. Just off the top of my head....

Larry Harrison---University of Hartford (6 years)
Frank Martin----Kansas St. And Univ. Of South Carolina

 

[Amberlycolonel]

Sorry, but I'll correct you once again. Just off the top of my head....

Larry Harrison---University of Hartford (6 years)
Frank Martin----Kansas St. And Univ. Of South Carolina

Andy Kennedy--- Ole Miss (Current)
Mick Cronin---- University of Cincinnati (Current)

Don't waste facts on this crowd, L.T.

 

[JackBauer151]

Sorry, but I'll correct you once again. Just off the top of my head....

Larry Harrison---University of Hartford (6 years)
Frank Martin----Kansas St. And Univ. Of South Carolina

Hahaha Wow Huggins was spitting out assistants to the head coaching ranks. When compared to Pitino this list is seriously laughable. Also read his comment again. He said WHILE working under him.

 

[JackBauer151]

Andy Kennedy--- Ole Miss (Current)
Mick Cronin---- University of Cincinnati (Current)

Don't waste facts on this crowd, L.T.

Yea dont let the facts get in the way when you arent even capable of reading and comprehending the claim. Not Kennedy, Martin, or Cronin were named head coaches WHILE working under Huggins.

 

[L-T]

You need a dose of reality. Bob Huggins destroyed the UC basketball program. When Mick took over he had no players, and Huggins had left the program in APR jail. The program was facing the loss of 3 scholarships because of the academic disaster that occured under Huggins. Mick not only had to replace an entire team with JUCO's he had to do it with JUCO's who would actually graduate in two years. This also resulted in unbalanced classes. Mike DeCourcy stated if UC hired anyone but Mick it would take at least 10 years to recover. Mick had them in the NCAA Tourney in year 5, and in the Big East Tourney Championship game and the Sweet 16 in year 6. The NCAA Tourney again in year 7.

What Mick has done in resurrecting the program from the ashes that Bob Huggins left is a modern miracle.

Mick had to go to Louisville to achieve his goal of becoming a head college coach. Huggins assistants were stained by Huggins horrible academic record, they never got hired as head coaches. Rick Pitino's assistants get hired as head coaches on a yearly basis.

Yes Ralph, Mick's performance has been the stuff of legends. I fully expect a nomination to the Basketball Hall of Fame shortly.

No amount of success will erase that one act of disloyalty. Mick was an assistant JV coach at Woodward when Huggs gave him an incredible opportunity to join this program as video coordinator, and soon promoted him to assistant coach and recruiting coordinator. That is a life-altering opportunity that one guy gave him. And to turn around a few years later and go to your #1 rival.....sorry, but that is an unprecedented level of disloyalty against a man who did you an immense favor..

 

[JackBauer151]

Yes Ralph, Mick's performance has been the stuff of legends. I fully expect a nomination to the Basketball Hall of Fame shortly.

No amount of success will erase that one act of disloyalty. Mick was an assistant JV coach at Woodward when Huggs gave him an incredible opportunity to join this program as video coordinator, and soon promoted him to assistant coach and recruiting coordinator. That is a life-altering opportunity that one guy gave him. And to turn around a few years later and go to your #1 rival.....sorry, but that is an unprecedented level of disloyalty against a man who did you an immense favor..

So if Pepsi gives me my huge break and I start to plateau at that position. Then Coke comes along and gives me the opportunity to improve my career trajectory Im not supposed to take it because Pepsi gave me the original break? Any sensible businessman knows that is absolute backward thinking. Mick wanted to be a head coach and saw the opportunity to advance towards that goal. All of your other assertions while I disagree with them I see where you are coming from. This one is just BS from start to finish.

 

[JackBauer151]

Also I know you dont care one iota but if you really want an explanation as to why Mick Cronin left UC. Here it is from Cronin himself. You can start listening at the 4 minute mark. Also the 11 minute mark is where he really hits on it. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ_FARtf5TM[/ame]

 

[L-T]

Hahaha Wow Huggins was spitting out assistants to the head coaching ranks. When compared to Pitino this list is seriously laughable. Also read his comment again. He said WHILE working under him.

Frank Martin was Huggs asst. at K-State when he got the job. But how does going to your school's chief rival and working against your alma mater, just so you can get ahead, excuse him of being disloyal? Obviously, Huggs had a huge part of developing all these guys to be head coaches.

This thread isn't about Huggs. It's about Cronin. So, please stay on the topic.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Frank Martin was Huggs asst. at K-State when he got the job. But how does going to your school's chief rival and working against your alma mater, just so you can get ahead, excuse him of being disloyal? Obviously, Huggs had a huge part of developing all these guys to be head coaches.

This thread isn't about Huggs. It's about Cronin. So, please stay on the topic.

Larry Harrison had to go to Depaul to become a head coach. How sad is that? Frank Martin wasn't hired while under Huggins. AK only got his gig once he was forced into an interim position. None hired while working under him. How long has Huggs coached, and not one assistant has gotten a head coaching gig while working under him? While AK worked under Huggs he tried to get a job at some small Louisiana school and they wouldn't even hire AK. Cronin was specifically told by AD's that you need to work under a different coach if you ever want a chance of being a head coach. That isn't being disloyal, it's being smart.

 

[L-T]

So if Pepsi gives me my huge break and I start to plateau at that position. Then Coke comes along and gives me the opportunity to improve my career trajectory Im not supposed to take it because Pepsi gave me the original break? Any sensible businessman knows that is absolute backward thinking. Mick wanted to be a head coach and saw the opportunity to advance towards that goal. All of your other assertions while I disagree with them I see where you are coming from. This one is just BS from start to finish.

Equating an opportunity in a major corporation with thousands of employees is far different than a college basketball coaching staff of five or six coaches who compete in the same league. Plus, we're talking about doing this to your alma mater on top of it just being a place of employment. That is a very important detail in this argument. Most true "Bearcats" would draw the line at X, OSU, and Louisville. The rest of the college basketball world would be open season.

 

[JackBauer151]

Frank Martin was Huggs asst. at K-State when he got the job. But how does going to your school's chief rival and working against your alma mater, just so you can get ahead, excuse him of being disloyal? Obviously, Huggs had a huge part of developing all these guys to be head coaches.

This thread isn't about Huggs. It's about Cronin. So, please stay on the topic.

No he wasnt. Huggins left for WV and Martin inherited it. No one came calling for Martin he just got lucky in that situation. That's not saying Martin is not worthy or capable; or that Huggins didnt have a tremendous amount of impact on Martin or the others guys mentioned. This is about Pitino getting his coaches jobs. He does it so much better than Huggins. It's why Mick left. Get off the BS Mick is disloyal claim. It makes you look petty.

 

[JackBauer151]

Equating an opportunity in a major corporation with thousands of employees is far different than a college basketball coaching staff of five or six coaches who compete in the same league. Plus, we're talking about doing this to your alma mater on top of it just being a place of employment. That is a very important detail in this argument. Most true "Bearcats" would draw the line at X, OSU, and Louisville. The rest of the college basketball world would be open season.

If he does draw that line maybe he never becomes a head coach. Its what he wanted and ended up getting the job at his alma mater and got his dream job. It worked. It did the exact thing he had hoped it would do. Made the right call. End of story.

 

[Amberlycolonel]

If he does draw that line maybe he never becomes a head coach. Its what he wanted and ended up getting the job at his alma mater and got his dream job. It worked. It did the exact thing he had hoped it would do. Made the right call. End of story.

Jack, I agree with your post. But the problem L.T, as well as myself, is having is the constant claims of loyalty about Cronin. He is not blindly loyal to anything. The Louisville move proved that. Was it a good move for him? Probably. Bad PR move however. That, even Ralph cannot deny.

 

[L-T]

If he does draw that line maybe he never becomes a head coach. Its what he wanted and ended up getting the job at his alma mater and got his dream job. It worked. It did the exact thing he had hoped it would do. Made the right call. End of story.

Not end of story. He got his job, but he lost our fanbase in the process. He did something unethical in most fans view, which worked for him, but has he got the fans back? No. Has he made us relevent again? Obviously no? That may not be the end of the story. But it is the story in process at the present moment. It's the single event that gets mentioned by most people when Cronin is being mentioned. I actually agree with you. That move pissed me off at the time, but has had "zero" impact on how I feel about him. I only brought it up because of the guy arguing about his loyalty the other day. Had he come in here and made us a power once again, I could care less about him going to Louisville.

 

[Amberlycolonel]

Not end of story. He got his job, but he lost our fanbase in the process. He did something unethical in most fans view, which worked for him, but has he got the fans back? No. Has he made us relevent again? Obviously no? That may not be the end of the story. But it is the story in process at the present moment. It's the single event that gets mentioned by most people when Cronin is being mentioned. I actually agree with you. That move pissed me off at the time, but has had "zero" impact on how I feel about him. I only brought it up because of the guy arguing about his loyalty the other day. Had he come in here and made us a power once again, I could care less about him going to Louisville.

Cronin still has a fan base but it is a very different one from 10 years ago. Back then, my wife and her friends use to attend 10 games a year. Travel to nearly every conference tournament. And get themselves into such a frenzy over it all that it took a drink or 2 to bring them down before game time. She still goes to 2 or 3 games but now it is out of loyalty to the school, not the program. I sense the same attitude among our friends as well. UC basketball is what it is now. Something to do, not something to live and die for. And the Cronin crowd is ok with that.

 

[L-T]

Cronin still has a fan base but it is a very different one from 10 years ago. Back then, my wife and her friends use to attend 10 games a year. Travel to nearly every conference tournament. And get themselves into such a frenzy over it all that it took a drink or 2 to bring them down before game time. She still goes to 2 or 3 games but now it is out of loyalty to the school, not the program. I sense the same attitude among our friends as well. UC basketball is what it is now. Something to do, not something to live and die for. And the Cronin crowd is ok with that.

Bingo! I am still the same fan as I was back then. Still get very excited to attend every game. But the passion around me is nowhere to be found anymore. I went to the final 4, all the elite 8s, the sweet 16s, all the conference tourneys, etc. along with thousands of other fans. Now we can't get our fanbase to drive downtime for the fricking Crosstown Shootout of all things. This more than anything is the basic failure of the Mick Cronin era. This will certainly not change anytime soon because our roster is what it is. No offense. Occasionally entertaining defense.

 

[Gotcha23]

Bingo! I am still the same fan as I was back then. Still get very excited to attend every game. But the passion around me is nowhere to be found anymore. I went to the final 4, all the elite 8s, the sweet 16s, all the conference tourneys, etc. along with thousands of other fans. Now we can't get our fanbase to drive downtime for the fricking Crosstown Shootout of all things. This more than anything is the basic failure of the Mick Cronin era. This will certainly not change anytime soon because our roster is what it is. No offense. Occasionally entertaining defense.

We're a top 50 program now. We used to be a top 20 program. It's really quite simple. Mick is getting us to the tourney so he's doing what he promised the fan base. Did you people honestly think we'd be a top 20 program again this soon? We were all lucky to have what we had. Top of the line players, brands, the arena was rocking and we put kids in the pro's. There are reasons why only 20 or so programs have that. It's incredibly hard to do.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Cronin still has a fan base but it is a very different one from 10 years ago. Back then, my wife and her friends use to attend 10 games a year. Travel to nearly every conference tournament. And get themselves into such a frenzy over it all that it took a drink or 2 to bring them down before game time. She still goes to 2 or 3 games but now it is out of loyalty to the school, not the program. I sense the same attitude among our friends as well. UC basketball is what it is now. Something to do, not something to live and die for. And the Cronin crowd is ok with that.

I will not accept a backstep. My biggest concern is that after 8 years the program has no identity. This was to be the year to run, run, run. Last year was to be the year to run, run, run.

What we have is a stagnant offense and a roster full of guys that can't shoot. I've never seen so many guys that can't make lay ups. Fundamentally this team is bad and last year fundamentally the team was bad.

The scheme doesn't fit the talent. This is a roster that has to have offense created for it either by defense or scheme. UC forced 20 turnovers and only got 10 points off them against X. The inability to finish in part is due to a lack of toughness. It is also about not understanding spacing and how to run a fastbreak.

Mick seems unwilling to make any changes. It is apparent that you have 4 guys that can score. SK, ST, JC, and KJ. They've got to play and play alot. We haven't seen the best of the two freshmen guards yet this season. I think in addition you've got to play Lawrence. H needs minutes partly because he's a freshman but also because he's played so little the past two years.He gives you the midrange shooter you need and have lacked.

The low post is what it is but you could help it by playing zone. It would allow you to shorten your bench and help with fouls. Rebounding is desire and position. Again fundamentally Thomas, Sanders, JJ, TRub, and Lawrence are terrible rebounders. That's coaching.

I like Mick and want him to succeed but this is his mess and he's responsible to fix it. The fanbase was patient for the rebuild I don't think they will be if the team slips backwards.

 

[Amberlycolonel]

We're a top 50 program now. We used to be a top 20 program. It's really quite simple. Mick is getting us to the tourney so he's doing what he promised the fan base. Did you people honestly think we'd be a top 20 program again this soon? We were all lucky to have what we had. Top of the line players, brands, the arena was rocking and we put kids in the pro's. There are reasons why only 20 or so programs have that. It's incredibly hard to do.

But it CAN be done here and it isn't. People are well aware of that and have lost confidence, enthusiasm, and patience. The tired old excuses of a bad arena, ticket prices, weak schedule, etc were all there 15 years ago. The difference is, we were a national name despite all of that. It CAN be done and it isn't. Is it hard? Better believe it. But, it CAN be done.