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[UCBearcats]

To be fair, this wasn't exactly Clark's only breakout game. And Kenyon was there for his 7 pts 4 reb in the Memphis game.

I'm not saying I agree with the fact that Kenyon was somehow the magic man in his short time here, just pointing out how ridiculous of a defense it is for Mick supporters to say his guys don't listen to him. That's not a defense for Mick, it's an indictment of him.

 

[waterhead]

So Mick tells his player ever day to do something yet he doesn't start doing it until he hears it from Kenyon Martin? Hmmmmmm....really makes you wonder about how much respect these guys actually have for the HC.

Do they respect and believe in him and rally behind him or do they fear him because he micro-manages every aspect of their game?

There seem to be a lot of people here using the same tired excuse that Mick tells his players things but they just don't respond. Well folks, that's a problem and it reflects back on the HC.

A coach should use every coaching tactic at his disposal...including bringing in former players or other speakers etc. It happens all the time in coaching and some of the greatest coaches have used these methods. Why we would turn it into something negative is beyond me???

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I'm not saying I agree with the fact that Kenyon was somehow the magic man in his short time here, just pointing out how ridiculous of a defense it is for Mick supporters to say his guys don't listen to him. That's not a defense for Mick, it's an indictment of him.

I attribute it to the one time buzz of being in the presence of someone with Kenyon's credentials. Hell, I was rooting harder just knowing he was in the stands. Can't imagine how the players felt. I have a tough time buying anything that somehow ties this back to Cronin. I'm just happy that so many former players are around giving our current players a standard to live up to.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

A coach should use every coaching tactic at his disposal...including bringing in former players or other speakers etc. It happens all the time in coaching and some of the greatest coaches have used these methods. Why we would turn it into something negative is beyond me???

Cronin should bring in Lou Holtz to do his newspaper trick!

 

[L-T]

A coach should use every coaching tactic at his disposal...including bringing in former players or other speakers etc. It happens all the time in coaching and some of the greatest coaches have used these methods. Why we would turn it into something negative is beyond me???

It's just a response to all the posts crediting Kenyon with amazing feats of motivation and teaching and the team responding amazingly to him. Again, if one guy had that effect on a team in just a few days, then it does call into question what's wrong with the coaching staff. It's not negative. It's a logical question to ask.

Listen, everyone is just guessing here. Nobody know what Kenyon had to say, or how active he was in practice. He has never been a man of many words because of his self confidence issue with his stuttering. It could have been complete coincidence that we played better while he was here. There is one single fact though, if it is true that he made that kind of positive impact, then it does point out an issue with the current coaching, that one outsider, over just a few days, could improve things that much.

 

[UCBearcats]

A coach should use every coaching tactic at his disposal...including bringing in former players or other speakers etc. It happens all the time in coaching and some of the greatest coaches have used these methods. Why we would turn it into something negative is beyond me???

You're missing my point. I'm glad Kenyon agreed to come back and I hope he and others come back more often. I just can't fathom how our coach can get in front of reporters and an audience and talk about how he tells these players this stuff every day and they don't listen. Then, instead of realizing how amazingly asinine it is for someone with his pay and of his stature to say something like that, people on this board view it as some sort of excuse for him.

I really do feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I think about all the absolute dog crap that comes out of Mick Cronin's mouth and how some people just seem to totally eat it up. It's mind boggling.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It's just a response to all the posts crediting Kenyon with amazing feats of motivation and teaching and the team responding amazingly to him. Again, if one guy had that effect on a team in just a few days, then it does call into question what's wrong with the coaching staff. It's not negative. It's a logical question to ask.

Listen, everyone is just guessing here. Nobody know what Kenyon had to say, or how active he was in practice. He has never been a man of many words because of his self confidence issue with his stuttering. It could have been complete coincidence that we played better while he was here. There is one single fact though, if it is true that he made that kind of positive impact, then it does point out an issue with the current coaching, that one outsider, over just a few days, could improve things that much.

I feel like the pregame/postgame on 700 and the press conferences said a lot about how involved Kenyon was last week.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It was Kenyon's first time back on the court since his senior day. I think you're trying too hard if you want to spin the effort of the players from this past week and turn it into a general coaching problem. Kenyon is a legend of all legends in Bearcat history. Of course you're going to listen to him. Of course you're going to play hard in front of him. You could choose to look at it as a College POY, #1 pick, All-Star, played in 2 NBA Finals, 15 year NBA veteran reinforcing the same message that our coach is preaching. That'd hardly be an indictment. And if our players are tuning out that message, shame on them.

 

[UCBearcats]

It was Kenyon's first time back on the court since his senior day. I think you're trying too hard if you want to spin the effort of the players from this past week and turn it into a general coaching problem. Kenyon is a legend of all legends in Bearcat history. Of course you're going to listen to him. Of course you're going to play hard in front of him. You could choose to look at it as a College POY, #1 pick, All-Star, played in 2 NBA Finals, 15 year NBA veteran reinforcing the same message that our coach is preaching. That'd hardly be an indictment. And if our players are tuning out that message, shame on them.

I disagree. Suppose my company made the highest paid employee and gave me a very lofty goal to achieve. I hand picked my team to work on that project with me but I was the manager and ultimately it was my responsibility to achieve the goal. After a few months we're off pace, not hitting goals, not achieving things and I'm telling everyone who can hear me that it's not my fault, my guys just aren't executing and they're not listening to me.

How much longer to you think I'd keep my job?

If suddenly someone was brought in from the outside and a marked improvement was visible wouldn't that be an indictment on me?

Mick is a highly paid employee with lofty goals. The guy has a dream job, why is he not held to a higher standard???

 

[L-T]

I disagree. Suppose my company made the highest paid employee and gave me a very lofty goal to achieve. I hand picked my team to work on that project with me but I was the manager and ultimately it was my responsibility to achieve the goal. After a few months we're off pace, not hitting goals, not achieving things and I'm telling everyone who can hear me that it's not my fault, my guys just aren't executing and they're not listening to me.

How much longer to you think I'd keep my job?

If suddenly someone was brought in from the outside and a marked improvement was visible wouldn't that be an indictment on me?

Mick is a highly paid employee with lofty goals. The guy has a dream job, why is he not held to a higher standard???

I've made the point many times that he is just an employee of the university. Not just any employee, but probably in the top two or three highest paid employees at the university. On here, he is often treated as almost an extension of the student athletes and that he is exempt from criticism, and holds some kind of special status. No, his income alone should bring with it intense scrutiny and we should expect continuous improvement. We're not satisfied until our program is returned to the level that our historical standing in college basketball dictates. We are nowhere near a top 10 or 20 program after 10 years. He got a pass for the 1st 4 or 5 years. His last 5 have shown just marginal success. You often measure success in attendance and the excitement level of the fanbase. We're charging bargain basement ticket prices just to entice people to come to games.

UCB, you are 100% correct in comparing his position with that of a manager in the corporate world. There is no difference and if he were in the corporate world, he would be skating on very thin ice right now.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I disagree. Suppose my company made the highest paid employee and gave me a very lofty goal to achieve. I hand picked my team to work on that project with me but I was the manager and ultimately it was my responsibility to achieve the goal. After a few months we're off pace, not hitting goals, not achieving things and I'm telling everyone who can hear me that it's not my fault, my guys just aren't executing and they're not listening to me.

How much longer to you think I'd keep my job?

If suddenly someone was brought in from the outside and a marked improvement was visible wouldn't that be an indictment on me?

Mick is a highly paid employee with lofty goals. The guy has a dream job, why is he not held to a higher standard???

Look, I get it. I'm as critical of Cronin as anyone. I have high standards. But that doesn't mean every single thing he does has to be wrong in some way. As a fan, nothing wrong with sitting back and enjoying last week imo. To take our effort and results from last week and turn it into "just another reason why our coach is terrible" takes effort.

 

[L-T]

I feel like the pregame/postgame on 700 and the press conferences said a lot about how involved Kenyon was last week.

I'm always at the games, so I never hear the pregame and sometimes don't hear the postgame, and rarely hear any press conferences, so if those painted a broader view of Kenyon's involvement, then I haven't heard that.

 

[L-T]

Look, I get it. I'm as critical of Cronin as anyone. I have high standards. But that doesn't mean every single thing he does has to be wrong in some way. As a fan, nothing wrong with sitting back and enjoying last week imo. To take our effort and results from last week and turn it into "just another reason why our coach is terrible" takes effort.

This goes both ways Jacob. There's an effort from both groups to look at every thing and make it flowery, or make it look like dirt. The coach must unite a fanbase. That's the issue, I think. This fanbase if very fractured and divided. We all want a winner. Some want a top program. Others are satisfied with mediocre results.

 

[waterhead]

It's just a response to all the posts crediting Kenyon with amazing feats of motivation and teaching and the team responding amazingly to him. Again, if one guy had that effect on a team in just a few days, then it does call into question what's wrong with the coaching staff. It's not negative. It's a logical question to ask.

Listen, everyone is just guessing here. Nobody know what Kenyon had to say, or how active he was in practice. He has never been a man of many words because of his self confidence issue with his stuttering. It could have been complete coincidence that we played better while he was here. There is one single fact though, if it is true that he made that kind of positive impact, then it does point out an issue with the current coaching, that one outsider, over just a few days, could improve things that much.

I don't know how much, if any, the presence of Kmart had to do with the last couple of games. But if a former player can give current players advice from a different perspective (kind of a like a peer rather than a boss)...I can see it having a slightly different effect.

I may not endorse the coach at the end of this year but I'm not going to pile on him for everything under the sun...especially things that seem to be great ideas. I can't think of too many people who think his presence was a bad idea. Why not give the coach recognition for thinking it might help rather than just another reason to tell us why he's incapable?

I am not a huge Cronin supporter nor I am a huge detractor. I don't care which side our fans are on but just be rational about how much you praise the guy or bash him.

 

[M64W]

What's Good for the Goose...

Look, I get it. I'm as critical of Cronin as anyone. I have high standards. But that doesn't mean every single thing he does has to be wrong in some way. As a fan, nothing wrong with sitting back and enjoying last week imo. To take our effort and results from last week and turn it into "just another reason why our coach is terrible" takes effort.

Well, you seemed to take the effort when it came to Tuberville. You seemed to take issue with every single thing he did.

 

[UCBearcats]

Look, I get it. I'm as critical of Cronin as anyone. I have high standards. But that doesn't mean every single thing he does has to be wrong in some way. As a fan, nothing wrong with sitting back and enjoying last week imo. To take our effort and results from last week and turn it into "just another reason why our coach is terrible" takes effort.

I hear ya but I've given the guy too many chances, I'm completely done with him. I'm not going to get excited because we beat a bad Memphis team and then beat Tulane. I know what the future holds with Mick at the helm, he's proven himself incapable too many times.

I'll sing FIRE MICK from the rooftops as long as I have to until enough people agree with me that it actually happens. Mediocrity, especially in the AAC, is completely unacceptable and should be treated that way.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Well, you seemed to take the effort when it came to Tuberville. You seemed to take issue with every single thing he did.

My criticism of Tuberville took zero effort. No mental gymnastics required.

 

[waterhead]

This goes both ways Jacob. There's an effort from both groups to look at every thing and make it flowery, or make it look like dirt. The coach must unite a fanbase. That's the issue, I think. This fanbase if very fractured and divided. We all want a winner. Some want a top program. Others are satisfied with mediocre results.

There are more than 2 groups. But I agree it's kind of like listening to MSNBC or Fox News. If you already don't like him...he won't do anything right and vice versa. There are moderates and independents though

 

[L-T]

I don't know how much, if any, the presence of Kmart had to do with the last couple of games. But if a former player can give current players advice from a different perspective (kind of a like a peer rather than a boss)...I can see it having a slightly different effect.

I may not endorse the coach at the end of this year but I'm not going to pile on him for everything under the sun...especially things that seem to be great ideas. I can't think of too many people who think his presence was a bad idea. Why not give the coach recognition for thinking it might help rather than just another reason to tell us why he's incapable?

I am not a huge Cronin supporter nor I am a huge detractor. I don't care which side our fans are on but just be rational about how much you praise the guy or bash him.

Nobody is criticizing Mick for doing it. You're making this something that it isn't. It's magnificent that Kenyon was brought in, or that he came here on his own, or whatever happened. Everyone is behind that event. Where this went from there is what created this discussion. Everyone started giving a lot of credit to Kenyon for what we saw the last 2 games. My original comment was that I think we're giving too much credit to Kenyon, so by saying that, I'm giving the credit back to Mick. However, I also stated that if in fact Kenyon did make that much difference, what does that say about the coaching staff that someone comes in and changes this team around in just a day or two, which is a logical question.

But, I stand by my original comment. I doubt that Kenyon did anything Earth shattering and the credit for the turnaround should be given to Mick. We'll see if he deserves that credit over the next 3 or 4 games.

 

[waterhead]

Nobody is criticizing Mick for doing it. You're making this something that it isn't. It's magnificent that Kenyon was brought in, or that he came here on his own, or whatever happened. Everyone is behind that event. Where this went from there is what created this discussion. Everyone started giving a lot of credit to Kenyon for what we saw the last 2 games. My original comment was that I think we're giving too much credit to Kenyon, so by saying that, I'm giving the credit back to Mick. However, I also stated that if in fact Kenyon did make that much difference, what does that say about the coaching staff that someone comes in and changes this team around in just a day or two, which is a logical question.

But, I stand by my original comment. I doubt that Kenyon did anything Earth shattering and the credit for the turnaround should be given to Mick. We'll see if he deserves that credit over the next 3 or 4 games.

You must be missing my point. Obviously the coach has laid the groundwork and has done 99% of the prep work that goes into a BB team. If Kmart 's presence gets the team a little more excitement or a new perspective from a player standpoint...I don't think it's an indictment on the coach.