Recruiting Bigs

[bearcat jeff]

I am concerned about this staff's inability to land good big men. Yes, they are rare and Mick does get serviceable low post players, but outside of Yancy there just hasn't been a low post threat.

The Bearcats are still in on, and have a shot at some bigs with good potential. I hope they can 1 or 2 of them. Maybe Gaines develops, Mick has said he has seen signs that the light is coming on, Nyarsuk, and Rubles prove to be really good. However, you'd like to think playing for this team, with it's success the past two years, and a real opportunity to play, that a good big would be attracted to a situation like that.

My hope is that some targets are waiting till spring so Mick and company have time. Maybe a top 3 finish in the Beast and some more CT and NT exposure will be the extra lure they need.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Yeah, its frustrating. It seems when he loses out to these guys he's losing out to the school in the kids back yard. Perry opted to stay close to home to play for USF, Obepka opted to stay in NYC to go to St. Johns. Behanon chose to play for an established power over us, I think if Behanon were to have come out a year or two later he might have chose to stay with Cincy, but at the time we hadn't done squat and Pitino is Pitino. And lets be honest, Yancy chose to stay home to come here. Maybe its something with big men that they like the familiarities of home. Either way none of them are here and each future recruit seems to be that much more important to try to get. I will say I have a liitle confidence after seeing Nyarsuk in person yesterday that he could surprise some people. He is big. I saw him standing next to Mbodj yesterday and he kinda dwarfed him.

 

[dp3113]

Yeah, its frustrating. It seems when he loses out to these guys he's losing out to the school in the kids back yard. Perry opted to stay close to home to play for USF, Obepka opted to stay in NYC to go to St. Johns. Behanon chose to play for an established power over us, I think if Behanon were to have come out a year or two later he might have chose to stay with Cincy, but at the time we hadn't done squat and Pitino is Pitino. And lets be honest, Yancy chose to stay home to come here. Maybe its something with big men that they like the familiarities of home. Either way none of them are here and each future recruit seems to be that much more important to try to get. I will say I have a liitle confidence after seeing Nyarsuk in person yesterday that he could surprise some people. He is big. I saw him standing next to Mbodj yesterday and he kinda dwarfed him.

i am not trying to be rude, im just trying to clarify- are you basing your opinion on nyarsuk surprising people based on you seeing him workout, or just that you saw him in person and thought he was really tall?

 

[david aka the TYZ]

i am not trying to be rude, im just trying to clarify- are you basing your opinion on nyarsuk surprising people based on you seeing him workout, or just that you saw him in person and thought he was really tall?

I didn't see him work out, just saying he is big. He has the body to play in the Big East. And based on the video I've seen and his scouting report with his size and bulk he could be a low-post prescence, especially on the defensive end. I don't know that he has alot of go-to offensive moves, but I don't think he'll give anything away when he's in there based on his size. Not just height but width. He and Mbodj were standing next to each other before the game in the Lindner Center and he made Mbodj look small. He had a couple inches on him and he was wider. I think the early feeling on this guy is he was a tall, but thin guy coming from the NAIA and most assumed he wouldn't contribute much. When I say I think he could surprise some people, I think our first impression was wrong. Hope that clarifies, we all will find out in about a month what he can bring to the table.

 

[mplebanon]

Well, take this for what it's worth. I have a friend who has another friend who is close to the Cronin family. According to my friend's friend, Nyarsik is more athletic than Ibrahima Thomas or Mbodj. Also said, other than stickbacks and dunks, he won't help much offensively, but he is going to be solid rebounding and playing defense.

But we shall see.

 

[cincycpaw]

I am concerned about this staff's inability to land good big men. Yes, they are rare and Mick does get serviceable low post players, but outside of Yancy there just hasn't been a low post threat.

The Bearcats are still in on, and have a shot at some bigs with good potential. I hope they can 1 or 2 of them. Maybe Gaines develops, Mick has said he has seen signs that the light is coming on, Nyarsuk, and Rubles prove to be really good. However, you'd like to think playing for this team, with it's success the past two years, and a real opportunity to play, that a good big would be attracted to a situation like that.

My hope is that some targets are waiting till spring so Mick and company have time. Maybe a top 3 finish in the Beast and some more CT and NT exposure will be the extra lure they need.

I 100% agree with ya. Though I'm usual told that Cronin has just backed off each guy he loses.

 

[dp3113]

I didn't see him work out, just saying he is big. He has the body to play in the Big East. And based on the video I've seen and his scouting report with his size and bulk he could be a low-post prescence, especially on the defensive end. I don't know that he has alot of go-to offensive moves, but I don't think he'll give anything away when he's in there based on his size. Not just height but width. He and Mbodj were standing next to each other before the game in the Lindner Center and he made Mbodj look small. He had a couple inches on him and he was wider. I think the early feeling on this guy is he was a tall, but thin guy coming from the NAIA and most assumed he wouldn't contribute much. When I say I think he could surprise some people, I think our first impression was wrong. Hope that clarifies, we all will find out in about a month what he can bring to the table.

fair enough- but in terms of size, he does weigh less than moodj, even after mbodj's weight loss this offseason. nyarsuk is 7'1 230 according to uc's website.

 

[bearcat jeff]

fair enough- but in terms of size, he does weigh less than moodj, even after mbodj's weight loss this offseason. nyarsuk is 7'1 230 according to uc's website.

Looks like a bus.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I hope that between him and Mbodj the defense will at least have to respect them when they are on the floor and keep a defender down low. I'm hoping Nyarsuk likes to hang near the basket and not flash out to perimeter like Gates always did. If he does the defense will have to keep honest and that will open up the perimeter more. Other than Gates, we haven't had a big in a while that defenses had to respect on offense to not cheat perimeter defending. These guys don't have to put up points to help out with the offense.

 

[CPAW29]

micks program is to develop his players and keep them beyond two years. there are no more tim duncans out there with the one and done, so kids aren't buying in. uc unlike ky can't afford those kids in the program

 

[Hicks' Guns]

I like the potential to always have a mobile 7 footer out there with Cheik and Nyarsuk. Those guys can go 100% and get relief from the other one. Maybe even Kelvin will take 5 minutes but I'm not holding my breath.

But agreed with Bearcat Jeff...othre than the JC college transfers, we don't seem to get good bigs. We haven't had a real force down there since Maxiell and Hicks. And just to pre-empt it...yeah, yeah...Yancy. But, that was an occasional force at best.

 

[JasonS]

We haven't had a real force down there since Maxiell and Hicks. And just to pre-empt it...yeah, yeah...Yancy. But, that was an occasional force at best.

While I agree about Yancy being an occasional force in the post, this thread is about recruiting bigs. When Yancy was recruited, he was a Top 25 player and wanted by many big time programs. He was a good player here and maybe didn't live up to some fans' expectations but it's not like he was a bust either.

 

[Cronin crazy 5]

I like the potential to always have a mobile 7 footer out there with Cheik and Nyarsuk. Those guys can go 100% and get relief from the other one. Maybe even Kelvin will take 5 minutes but I'm not holding my breath.

But agreed with Bearcat Jeff...othre than the JC college transfers, we don't seem to get good bigs. We haven't had a real force down there since Maxiell and Hicks. And just to pre-empt it...yeah, yeah...Yancy. But, that was an occasional force at best.

Would definately be nice to get a maxiell or Hicks again. But i dont even consider them bigs considering Max was 6-7 and Hicks was prolly 6-5. With the new implemented 4 guard offense all Uc needs is a tenacious rebounder who can guard a bigger, more traditional center if need be. Gates was a Beast physically but got destroyed on screens when he had to come out to the arc. Getting a guy like Rubles who is not the biggest but will compete for every rebound will make this team better. If only Gates had the fire of JJ or Hicks, he would of been one of the greats. Not knocking him on anything that he did here though.

 

[TheLongHaul]

While I agree about Yancy being an occasional force in the post, this thread is about recruiting bigs. When Yancy was recruited, he was a Top 25 player and wanted by many big time programs. He was a good player here and maybe didn't live up to some fans' expectations but it's not like he was a bust either.

I agree with you, but....Mick got Yancy's commitment, what, over 7 years ago? That's too long of a span for getting a good big man.

 

[JasonS]

I agree with you, but....Mick got Yancy's commitment, what, over 7 years ago? That's too long of a span for getting a good big man.

He got Yancy's commitment when there was nothing to commit to.

Realistically, looking at where this program has come, 2012 is the first recruiting class year where UC was able to show NCAA tourney entry/success. This 2013 class has seen it two years in a row. The foundation is still being built. Let's see where this 2013 class ends up before we worry about it.

Also, while JJ may not fit people's expectation of what a "big" should be, it is still important to note that he was a top 100 recruit at PF. Everything I am hearing points to a big improvement from JJ in ball handling and playing as a face-up 4 this year. I guess I am just not as concerned as some on this board.

 

[JumpinJack5]

As I remember, Kelvin Gaines was a pretty high-ranked recruit. The problem with big men is that 3-4 four star big man is usually pretty raw compared to 3-4 four star guards (see Kilpatrick). Really, it is no different than when Huggs was here. We tend to get very raw, athletic guys and some develop into stars and others don't. That's why I'm most interested to see Gaines this year and to see if any improvements were made. Nobody doubts his athletic ability. I saw a pic of him in the first practice, and he got even bigger/stronger. Now hopefully his basketball iq is next.....

 

[TheLongHaul]

He got Yancy's commitment when there was nothing to commit to.

Realistically, looking at where this program has come, 2012 is the first recruiting class year where UC was able to show NCAA tourney entry/success. This 2013 class has seen it two years in a row. The foundation is still being built. Let's see where this 2013 class ends up before we worry about it.

Also, while JJ may not fit people's expectation of what a "big" should be, it is still important to note that he was a top 100 recruit at PF. Everything I am hearing points to a big improvement from JJ in ball handling and playing as a face-up 4 this year. I guess I am just not as concerned as some on this board.

I'm not downplaying Yancy's commitment at all, just the fact that it was over 7 years ago. UC has been able to offer a lot of PT at the center position even with Yancy in the program. I thought they'd be able to get better "big" recruits by now. They've continually lost out on their main targets which is what has me concerned.

I don't recall exactly with JJ but while I like him I don't think he was in Rivals top 150. He may have been in ESPN's, Scout's, etc. And like you said, he really isn't a "big".

As I remember, Kelvin Gaines was a pretty high-ranked recruit. The problem with big men is that 3-4 four star big man is usually pretty raw compared to 3-4 four star guards (see Kilpatrick). Really, it is no different than when Huggs was here. We tend to get very raw, athletic guys and some develop into stars and others don't. That's why I'm most interested to see Gaines this year and to see if any improvements were made. Nobody doubts his athletic ability. I saw a pic of him in the first practice, and he got even bigger/stronger. Now hopefully his basketball iq is next.....

Gaines wasn't ranked at all. He was pretty much unknown when UC signed him. Hopefully Gaines can turn into a star but this is his third year in the program and I don't expect much this year. If he doesn't give much this year than that is 3 years of taking a scholarship that could have went to someone else. Maybe it'll be worth it in the end so we'll have to wait and see.

 

[JumpinJack5]

"Gaines wasn't ranked at all. He was pretty much unknown when UC signed him. Hopefully Gaines can turn into a star but this is his third year in the program and I don't expect much this year. If he doesn't give much this year than that is 3 years of taking a scholarship that could have went to someone else. Maybe it'll be worth it in the end so we'll have to wait and see." [QUOTE, The Long Haul)


Gaines was ranked much higher than most would think. While I realize ESPN isn't the best at ranking recruits, but they ranked Gaines a 90 and the 17th best center in his class. Jackson, meanwhile, was a 94 and in the ESPN top 100. SK, I believe, was an 88 and Parker was an 89.

Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2132/class/2010

 

[waterhead]

I am concerned about this staff's inability to land good big men. Yes, they are rare and Mick does get serviceable low post players, but outside of Yancy there just hasn't been a low post threat.

The Bearcats are still in on, and have a shot at some bigs with good potential. I hope they can 1 or 2 of them. Maybe Gaines develops, Mick has said he has seen signs that the light is coming on, Nyarsuk, and Rubles prove to be really good. However, you'd like to think playing for this team, with it's success the past two years, and a real opportunity to play, that a good big would be attracted to a situation like that.

My hope is that some targets are waiting till spring so Mick and company have time. Maybe a top 3 finish in the Beast and some more CT and NT exposure will be the extra lure they need.

I am a big fan of what Cronin has been able to do (he's a keeper)...but I have to agree with you. However, I don't think his problem is reeling in Bigs...I just think he has a problem with getting highly ranked players...say top 50 or 100...4 and 5 star guys. He is GREAT at finding diamonds in the rough and serviceable last minute players.

Here is a source (it may not be 100%) you can check for UC players back to 1998 in terms of recruiting ranks.

http://bearcatball.com/cincinnati-basketball/roster_top_recruits

and here is a source you can check for the concensus ranks (of many recruiting sites) of our kids in 2012 and you can check 2013 for players we might be recruiting.

http://rscihoops.com/

Bottom line is that Cronin is better at finding diamonds in the rough than reeling in highly ranked 4's and 5 star guys. Even the 4 star guys he gets are often borderline 3 stars. Shaq Thomas and Cash Wright were both consensus 93 rank on this site...and top 100 is about the cutoff for 4 stars on Rivals. Other than those two...Gates (local) and Stephenson (out of the ordinary situation) were his big recruits. McClain was ranked 60.

I know that stars can't predict anything (see Biggie)...but AS A RATIO 5 star guys fare better than 3 star guys. A great recruiter should be able to get more of the highly touted players IMO.

 

[waterhead]

In comparing Huggins and Cronin (in terms of recruiting) it may get a little hairy since Cronin was under Huggins for a time and Cronin was handed a hot mess to start. But to say we endured the same type of recruiting under Huggins I would probably disagree. Of those you won't see on the above link which dates back to 98 for top recruits and at least 1984 for MCD's AA's you won't find these guys. I don't know where they were ranked but I am guessing there are some 4 star guys here...and I am also leaving a few out I am sure.

Martin
Van Exel
Blount
Buford
Williams
Burton
Patterson
Durden
Levett
Bobbit
Kirkland
Little
Long
Logan
Mickeal
Brannen
Gregor
Jones
etc...

I understand many were jucos (and a couple were transfers) and it was a different time back then for jucos but the point is Huggins was able to land them. This list is not to denegrate Cronin because I am very happy we have him...I just think we should be better at getting some higher ranked recruits (specifically higher ranked 4 star guys) and the excuses for what Cronin was handed are getting old now. If we look at 2012 and 2013 I can tell you I DO like Rubles, Nyarcuk, Johnson, and Caupain...but I don't think any are inside the concensus top 100 which would denote a 4 star type of guy. I would rather see more top 75 guys because they are the sure fire type 4 stars and 5 star kids.

I would guess Huggins may have landed 3 times as many 4-5 star guys. Cronin's 3 best recruits (in terms of rankings inside the top 75) were Gates, Stephenson, and McClain and the last was in '09. So we haven't seen one top 75 guy in 2010, 2011, 2012, and so far 2013. I understand the issues of his early tenure...but when you look at it...he had success back then. My problem is recruting isn't getting noticeably better now that our program is standing on firm ground.

He may be getting "system guys" and "4 year guys"...but that's not because he isn't going after the higher ranked kids. We just aren't getting them.