After watching a full day of college basketball, once again I'm struck with the plethora of pure shooters throughout college basketball, none of which seem to ever make their way to Clifton. Some teams have guys coming off the bench who shoot light years better than our best shooter. It still amazes me that Cronin just can't get a decent shooter. He also doesn't ever recruit any speed burners. We get the Caupains, Johnson's, Jenifers, SKs, etc. of the world, none who really have a different gear and can just blow past the defenders. We'll never play with the big boys if we can't recruit similar talent. X is recruiting speed and shooters and now they are Top 10. Cronin needs to start getting that kind of talent into Clifton and get away from recruiting projects that take forever to develop.
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State of the Program
- Thread starter UCBearcats
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GarrardJ, here are some things off the top of my head I'd say Coach Cronin does well:
-Gets us to the tournament every year
-Runs a clean program
-Has a top notch defense every season
-Brings in student athletes who represent the university very well
-Has recruited well the past 4-5 years in terms of getting a high impact player in every class
-Has utilized the transfer market in the spring
-Has a very healthy culture with few players transferring/making it about themselves over the team
Just since 2012-13, Kelvin Gaines, GeLawn Guyn, Jermaine Lawrence, Jeremiah Davis, Jamarree Strickland, Deshaun Morman, Octavius Ellis have all transferred.
Is his great defensive scoring average really from a truly top notch defense, or is it aided greatly by his mind-numbingly slow offense?
We have great kids in our program. Really easy to root for them.
Imagine what people would have said about Ellis if he played for X. That dude made it hard to root for him.
This year I agree though, all of the kids seem pretty solid.
GarradJ21
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Just since 2012-13, Kelvin Gaines, GeLawn Guyn, Jermaine Lawrence, Jeremiah Davis, Jamarree Strickland, Deshaun Morman, Octavius Ellis have all transferred.
Is his great defensive scoring average really from a truly top notch defense, or is it aided greatly by his mind-numbingly slow offense?
You're pretty knowledgeable fan to know most of those guys didn't leave because they didn't like the program or coach.
Ellis punched someone at Play. That dudes eye looked like it was going to fall off. Ran into the kid a lot. Probably best Ellis got out of the city for awhile
Lawrence dad was sick. Needed to be closer to home.
Guyn lost his job due to injury. Dude loved it here and left on really good terms.
Strickland left because of academics
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After watching a full day of college basketball, once again I'm struck with the plethora of pure shooters throughout college basketball, none of which seem to ever make their way to Clifton. Some teams have guys coming off the bench who shoot light years better than our best shooter. It still amazes me that Cronin just can't get a decent shooter. He also doesn't ever recruit any speed burners. We get the Caupains, Johnson's, Jenifers, SKs, etc. of the world, none who really have a different gear and can just blow past the defenders. We'll never play with the big boys if we can't recruit similar talent. X is recruiting speed and shooters and now they are Top 10. Cronin needs to start getting that kind of talent into Clifton and get away from recruiting projects that take forever to develop.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with Broome. I agree on some points though. Sitting in the stands watching an Ohio boy like Luke kennard light it up for Duke was painful. Shame that those Ohio guys rarely consider UC
Just since 2012-13, Kelvin Gaines, GeLawn Guyn, Jermaine Lawrence, Jeremiah Davis, Jamarree Strickland, Deshaun Morman, Octavius Ellis have all transferred.
Is his great defensive scoring average really from a truly top notch defense, or is it aided greatly by his mind-numbingly slow offense?
Fair point on the first paragraph. On your second point there are ways to tell if the excellent D is because of slow offense. I'm even quite sure you know what that stat is because it gets mentioned in here all the time.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with Broome. I agree on some points though. Sitting in the stands watching an Ohio boy like Luke kennard light it up for Duke was painful. Shame that those Ohio guys rarely consider UC[/QUOTE
I won't be surprised with Broome. I've already seen him live and in person and think he is amazing. I don't think he is the "light-it-up" pure shooter that I am referring to, but he has overall skills out the wazoo.
Fair point on the first paragraph. On your second point there are ways to tell if the excellent D is because of slow offense. I'm even quite sure you know what that stat is because it gets mentioned in here all the time.
Lol...I don't pay a lot of attention to those advanced stats. The stats I mostly use are my eyes. I see enough players on the floor who aren't very good defensively to call the defense top notch. However, the Rubles, SK, JJ, Guyn, etc. defense was top notch.
jacobkdoyle
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Just since 2012-13, Kelvin Gaines, GeLawn Guyn, Jermaine Lawrence, Jeremiah Davis, Jamarree Strickland, Deshaun Morman, Octavius Ellis have all transferred.
Is his great defensive scoring average really from a truly top notch defense, or is it aided greatly by his mind-numbingly slow offense?
L-T after your day of watching college bball you had to have noticed that most teams don't guard/contest/rotate like us.
Bearcat_NTS
Well-known member
Positives:
1. Mick has developed a culture of playing hard and disciplined defensively. In college basketball you can win 20 games if you do those two things consistently. I give him credit that he and his staff scout and game plan very well on defense.
2. Staff does a good job identifying talent. They have often been in early on guys that blow up later (Kemba Walker, Mitch McGary, Donovan Mitchell, etc). They've hit on two fringe top 100 guys in Clark and Evans.
3. Generally run a clean program. Outside of Ellis and Alvin Mitchell, Mick has brought in good kids that represent the program well. I personally do not care about this much if at all, but a lot of people who like to get on their moral high horse care about this.
Negatives:
1. Inability to land the top, top recruits. They've done well with underrated guys but have rarely landed the blue chippers. Mick seems proud not to get this these guys. He loves underrated recruits with a chip on their shoulders.
2. Terrible post season performances. UC has not really won a "big" game since the Sweet 16 in 2012. Since then, UC is just 3-8 in the postseason and has not won more that 1 game in any of the four seasons. The wins are over Providence (NIT team), UCF and Purdue. That is not acceptable. We haven't even reached the conference tournament final in a league we supposed think sucks.
3. Micro-managing games. Mick seems so scared to let his team play down the stretch in close games. He refuses to address the offensive issues and constantly repeats "defense, rebounding and toughness." That's not going to win you post season games.
4. Whining. He is awful in the media and makes an @ss out of himself more often then not. He over exaggerates everything and is too defensive. Constant little man syndrome. This is annoying more than anything else but is a good example of how he views the program. He thinks of us as the little engine that could.
1. Mick has developed a culture of playing hard and disciplined defensively. In college basketball you can win 20 games if you do those two things consistently. I give him credit that he and his staff scout and game plan very well on defense.
2. Staff does a good job identifying talent. They have often been in early on guys that blow up later (Kemba Walker, Mitch McGary, Donovan Mitchell, etc). They've hit on two fringe top 100 guys in Clark and Evans.
3. Generally run a clean program. Outside of Ellis and Alvin Mitchell, Mick has brought in good kids that represent the program well. I personally do not care about this much if at all, but a lot of people who like to get on their moral high horse care about this.
Negatives:
1. Inability to land the top, top recruits. They've done well with underrated guys but have rarely landed the blue chippers. Mick seems proud not to get this these guys. He loves underrated recruits with a chip on their shoulders.
2. Terrible post season performances. UC has not really won a "big" game since the Sweet 16 in 2012. Since then, UC is just 3-8 in the postseason and has not won more that 1 game in any of the four seasons. The wins are over Providence (NIT team), UCF and Purdue. That is not acceptable. We haven't even reached the conference tournament final in a league we supposed think sucks.
3. Micro-managing games. Mick seems so scared to let his team play down the stretch in close games. He refuses to address the offensive issues and constantly repeats "defense, rebounding and toughness." That's not going to win you post season games.
4. Whining. He is awful in the media and makes an @ss out of himself more often then not. He over exaggerates everything and is too defensive. Constant little man syndrome. This is annoying more than anything else but is a good example of how he views the program. He thinks of us as the little engine that could.
L-T after your day of watching college bball you had to have noticed that most teams don't guard/contest/rotate like us.
.......nor do they leave players wide open in the corners like Mick's teams have for 10 years. I also watched Virginia yesterday Jacob. That is a true top notch defense. I can't compare ours to what I saw yesterday......and they have actual shooters that can also play defense.
jacobkdoyle
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.......nor do they leave players wide open in the corners like Mick's teams have for 10 years. I also watched Virginia yesterday Jacob. That is a true top notch defense. I can't compare ours to what I saw yesterday......and they have actual shooters that can also play defense.
The open 3s are why I hate our stupid zone. Our guys are well schooled and fundamentally sound defenders though. Can't argue with you on Virginia. They're way better than us on all fronts.
The open 3s are why I hate our stupid zone. Our guys are well schooled and fundamentally sound defenders though. Can't argue with you on Virginia. They're way better than us on all fronts.
Jacob, we weren't playing this goofy zone all 10 years. But we were still leaving open shooters while playing man to man. Whatever his help defense basics are, well....they suck.
jacobkdoyle
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Jacob, we weren't playing this goofy zone all 10 years. But we were still leaving open shooters while playing man to man. Whatever his help defense basics are, well....they suck.
I don't remember the 3s being as big of an issue as the past couple years. I agree the zone is goofy though. I get a little embarrassed when we can't play straight up against teams like Samford.
justinhub2003
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L-T after your day of watching college bball you had to have noticed that most teams don't guard/contest/rotate like us.
After watching ALOT of college basketball this season as well , from high major to mid major. And I've not seen a big as dynamic and game changing offensively as Kyle Washington. I think we landed a gem but of course, I don't expect the Cronin haters on this board to acknowledge that.
justinhub2003
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The open 3s are why I hate our stupid zone. Our guys are well schooled and fundamentally sound defenders though. Can't argue with you on Virginia. They're way better than us on all fronts.
The match up zone left open 3 point shooters sure BUT you realize that we had the best 2 point defense in the country last year?
I'd rather a team beat us hitting lower percentage shots than to kill us on the easy high percentage shots.
That said. I want to see us mix and match the man d and match up zone through out the game to keep teams on their toes.
And L-T , that Virginia defense you say is so much better than ours allowed teams to shoot 35% from 3 last year , we allowed 36% from 3... so not much difference in how well both defended the 3.
We allowed teams to shoot 41% from 2 and they allowed 46% percent.
Also Virginia happened to play at the slowest pace in ALL of basketball last year.
jacobkdoyle
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After watching ALOT of college basketball this season as well , from high major to mid major. And I've not seen a big as dynamic and game changing offensively as Kyle Washington. I think we landed a gem but of course, I don't expect the Cronin haters on this board to acknowledge that.
Why do you have to add in the pot shot? Who has said Washington isn't good? Completely inaccurate, unprovoked, and unnecessary.
jacobkdoyle
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The match up zone left open 3 point shooters sure BUT you realize that we had the best 2 point defense in the country last year?
I'd rather a team beat us hitting lower percentage shots than to kill us on the easy high percentage shots.
That said. I want to see us mix and match the man d and match up zone through out the game to keep teams on their toes.
And L-T , that Virginia defense you say is so much better than ours allowed teams to shoot 35% from 3 last year , we allowed 36% from 3... so not much difference in how well both defended the 3.
We allowed teams to shoot 41% from 2 and they allowed 46% percent.
Also Virginia happened to play at the slowest pace in ALL of basketball last year.
They also played in the ACC.
justinhub2003
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They also played in the ACC.
When adjusted for competition, they have a slightly more efficient defense than us. It's so close, that's it not really even a difference. Our defense is very much the same.
All I'm saying is; Virginia doesn't defend the 3 much better than UC.
And my snark in the other comment, might have been uncalled for but isn't untrue. I get a little frustrated seeing every single thread turned into putting down our program, as if UC is one of the worst teams in all of basketball. I feel so good about having 2 really good players (Evans and Washington) on our team and find it a bit insane that you can say all the things we lack without mentioning how dynamic of a player Kyle washington. He truly (at least early on) looks like one of the best bigs in college basketball.
Bearcat_NTS
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When adjusted for competition, they have a slightly more efficient defense than us. It's so close, that's it not really even a difference. Our defense is very much the same.
All I'm saying is; Virginia doesn't defend the 3 much better than UC.
And my snark in the other comment, might have been uncalled for but isn't untrue. I get a little frustrated seeing every single thread turned into putting down our program, as if UC is one of the worst teams in all of basketball. I feel so good about having 2 really good players (Evans and Washington) on our team and find it a bit insane that you can say all the things we lack without mentioning how dynamic of a player Kyle washington. He truly (at least early on) looks like one of the best bigs in college basketball.
They are 6 points better than UC per 100 possession. That is significantly better
