Tourney - wise, what's is reasonable to expect?

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Great discussion guys thanks for the thoughts.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Other 12 seeds
2016
Yale 46
Ark LR 56
SD St 80
Chattanooga 109

2015
SF Austin 51
Buffalo 58
Wofford 96
Wyoming 109

So literally since that year Harvard finished 32 and wasa 12 seed that was the single highest rated team by 10 spots, and the only top 40 12 seed since that season. That's the definition of a shitty draw.

I say big whoop. If you can't beat the #32 team there's no reason to ever expect to get out of the 2nd round anyway. So it doesn't matter if it's a bad draw.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Getting #32 in kenpom as a 12 seed is a horrible draw.

The 12s this year were Mid Ten #42, Nevada 55, Princeton 57, UNC-W 59


That year the other 12's were Xavier 54, N Dakota St 61, and NC St 62.

I haven't looked at all of the years but 32 has to be one of the highest ranks for a 12 seed.

I already said this year was a tough draw. Many others were not. St. Joe's, Harvard, and Creighton weren't. When you are in the NCAA you don't get to play cupcakes, you occasionally have to beat a good team if you want to advance.

Personally if I'm Mick I'm racing out of here. He'll never win over this fan base.

That's b.s. I was a huge Mick supporter. Still am a supporter but not as big as I was at first. This is a blue collar town. People don't like excuses or whining and Mick makes way too many excuses and whines way too much. Don't bitch about the tourny being about money when you make over $2mm/year. Plus I feel like he has grown quite a bit of arrogance over the last couple years.

Let's keep those runs in perspective.

2017 worst team, great run, nice draw
2016 Best team, lost in 2nd rd
2015 beat an 11 and 14 seed
2014 lost play in game
2013 No Tourney
2012 beat a 7 and 15 seed
2011 Rd 1 loss
2010 beat 11 and 3 seed Pitt, who was somehow a 3 seed despite finishing 28 in kpom


I'm done going through this, but they have legit had a lucky rabbits foot with their draws. Hell, how many of us would have rather been their 11 seed than our 6 seed? We would have had an easier round 1 game and a significantly weaker 3 seed.

They got a favorable matchup the first two rounds this year but then they still went out and beat Arizona out west. Oh, and this was without their starting PG. Can you imagine where UC would have been if Caupain went out for the year just 10 games ago?

 

[TheLongHaul]

I say big whoop. If you can't beat the #32 team there's no reason to ever expect to get out of the 2nd round anyway. So it doesn't matter if it's a bad draw.

exactly. Wisconson could argue that they got a terrible matchup being underseed by the gospel (i.e., kenpom) and having to play Villanova. What did they do about it? Won.

 

[Jive]

David that isn't the only reason why they have made runs. Mick recruited Cash who was a scorer before his injury,Stephenson, Deonte and others. He took over a program that was in the toilet. In 4 years he had us in the dance. He missed on the Sanders, Thomas class. Since then he doesn't have the conference to help him with recruiting and has found very nice under the radar players that have got us to the level we are at. If you think someone else can take us higher then we are currently at I won't argue. All I'm saying is those guys are hard to find. Especially under the current conditions.

Actually, it took him 5 years to put us in the dance. Listen, he's a good coach, no argument there. UCONN continues to have great recruiting classes and they won a national title in the AAC.That was after they finished in 3rd place in this horrible league.

 

[Jive]

I already said this year was a tough draw. Many others were not. St. Joe's, Harvard, and Creighton weren't. When you are in the NCAA you don't get to play cupcakes, you occasionally have to beat a good team if you want to advance.



That's b.s. I was a huge Mick supporter. Still am a supporter but not as big as I was at first. This is a blue collar town. People don't like excuses or whining and Mick makes way too many excuses and whines way too much. Don't bitch about the tourny being about money when you make over $2mm/year. Plus I feel like he has grown quite a bit of arrogance over the last couple years.



They got a favorable matchup the first two rounds this year but then they still went out and beat Arizona out west. Oh, and this was without their starting PG. Can you imagine where UC would have been if Caupain went out for the year just 10 games ago?

Not to mention...no Myles Davis for a whole season and Bluitt out for a long time,

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We're going to be really good next year. I just hope we win the AAC regular season and or/Tournament. And when we get in the NCAA, go out guns blazing if we're going to go out. A guy like Evans can never take only 7 shots in a big game ever again.

 

[Jive]

We're going to be really good next year. I just hope we win the AAC regular season and or/Tournament. And when we get in the NCAA, go out guns blazing if we're going to go out. A guy like Evans can never take only 7 shots in a big game ever again.

We've had back to back experienced talented teams with very little to show for it. 30 wins was great and fun. Absolutely loved it, Loved beating X, Loved being ranked, It was the most fun season under Mick. But in the end, the luster of the season faded with our failure to win any championships or get out of the first weekend in March. It was a good season, but we really needed a great season. I'm with you. I don't see any way that next season won't be great. We're stacked!

 

[Jon Rycek]

I find it interesting that when we were in the BE and our OOC schedule was horrible it was because we didn't need to schedule anyone because the conference was so good. Now we can't schedule anyone because we aren't in a good conference. I'm so tired of all the excuses. It can be done if they want it done bad enough.

What are you talking about? I think it was said we had the 31st best out of conference schedule earlier. Had Michigan not backed out and we could have managed to beat Rhode Island where do you think that would have put us? Who's saying we can't schedule good teams? We aren't gonna get the UCLAs and UKs to play us very often but we can manage to pull in some decent teams

 

[ervins84]

I say big whoop. If you can't beat the #32 team there's no reason to ever expect to get out of the 2nd round anyway. So it doesn't matter if it's a bad draw.

I don't disagree with anything you said. That's not the point he was making though when looking back at who we've played over the last handful of years.


That's an entirely different point than saying "C'mon Harvard" which is basically rolling your eyes at the name on the jersey when it was the highest ranked 12 seed by a wide margin since that season.

Of course you have to beat good teams to get anywhere. I wasn't aware there were good teams in the tournament so without people pointing that out I don't know I ever could have drawn that conclusion.

I also said we've underachieved, but we've also been pretty unlucky. Those don't have to be mutually exclusive options.

 

[ervins84]

I already said this year was a tough draw. Many others were not. St. Joe's, Harvard, and Creighton weren't. When you are in the NCAA you don't get to play cupcakes, you occasionally have to beat a good team if you want to advance.

Never was aware you have to beat good teams to advance. That wasn't your point. You effectively rolled your eyes at Harvard, when it finished the highest in arguably the best ranking system of how good teams actually are of any 12 seed. That's unfortunate for us. We also still underachieved by losing to them. Those are both allowed to exist in the same universe for the same season.

They got a favorable matchup the first two rounds this year but then they still went out and beat Arizona out west. Oh, and this was without their starting PG. Can you imagine where UC would have been if Caupain went out for the year just 10 games ago

I said it was a nice run. It's also really hard to ever know the answer to your question. At first glance we'd obviously be screwed, but so was this Xavier team. There's not one realistic reasonable Xavier fan who expected this to happen either. There's a reason they lost 6 in a row and it's because they were pretty meh without Sumner for quite a while.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I already said this year was a tough draw. Many others were not. St. Joe's, Harvard, and Creighton weren't. When you are in the NCAA you don't get to play cupcakes, you occasionally have to beat a good team if you want to advance.



That's b.s. I was a huge Mick supporter. Still am a supporter but not as big as I was at first. This is a blue collar town. People don't like excuses or whining and Mick makes way too many excuses and whines way too much. Don't bitch about the tourny being about money when you make over $2mm/year. Plus I feel like he has grown quite a bit of arrogance over the last couple years.



They got a favorable matchup the first two rounds this year but then they still went out and beat Arizona out west. Oh, and this was without their starting PG. Can you imagine where UC would have been if Caupain went out for the year just 10 games ago?

We differ greatly on the definition of whining. Just because he makes 2 mil a year has nothing to do with his team getting screwed by the committee. You think he is arrogant. LMAO!!!

My comment is based on him replacing a very popular figure in his home town. Those two things make it very tough to live up to. Especially considering how college athletics have changed.

AlI one has to do is go and look at some of the comments that appeared regularly on cincy.com to get a feel on how he was treated. The personal attacks went way over the line.

 

[Jive]

We differ greatly on the definition of whining. Just because he makes 2 mil a year has nothing to do with his team getting screwed by the committee. You think he is arrogant. LMAO!!!

My comment is based on him replacing a very popular figure in his home town. Those two things make it very tough to live up to. Especially considering how college athletics have changed.

AlI one has to do is go and look at some of the comments that appeared regularly on cincy.com to get a feel on how he was treated. The personal attacks went way over the line.

It doesn't matter what was said. If you are a great coach, you come in and shut up the naysayers by recruiting great players, playing a strong schedule, keeping the team in the top 25, winning championships, and making some noise in March. You do that and this conversation would have been dead many years ago. A perfect example was this season. He started making inroads with the fans by winning, getting us ranked in the top 20, and looking like he was finally going to win some championships. The crowds came back. We started selling out the arena. It's that easy. But the season ended with all too familiar results and here we sit again. His supporters have all these theory's about all the barriers in front of him. Shaka Smart at VCU, BRAD Stevens at Butler, Mark Few at Gonzaga, Greg Marshall at Wichita, Bob Huggins at Cincinnati,CHris Mack at X, and many more had the same barriers and busted through those barriers to elevate their programs.

Mick has finally had two consecutive years of talented rosters to bust through those barriers. Last year was a huge disappointment. This season caused some huge cracks in the barriers, but he still didn't bust through. My prediction is that he'll finally bust through next year, but when he does, hopefully he has recruited well enough to sustain it. We can't fall back once we're through. I'm really looking forward to next season.

 

[cincyguy13]

The "bad draw" argument is kinda dumb. Yeah, sometimes you have to play really good teams in the NCAA tournament. Not saying you can't get a bad matchup but you can't use this argument every year

 

[ZCat]

Getting #32 in kenpom as a 12 seed is a horrible draw.

The 12s this year were Mid Ten #42, Nevada 55, Princeton 57, UNC-W 59


That year the other 12's were Xavier 54, N Dakota St 61, and NC St 62.

I haven't looked at all of the years but 32 has to be one of the highest ranks for a 12 seed.

I dint wanna cry over this bc it is in the past, and we need to beat the teams in front of us to earn respect.

But send this to Jay Bilaa. The more him and others vocalize this crap, the better chance something may change.

 

[ZCat]

This was not a "bad" loss. But, when you are expected to keep raising the bar, you can't just keep losing all these matchups and just say "oh well", we weren't favored. You have to do whatever it takes to win some of these games. Mack has been to three Sweet 16s as a 6, 10, and 6 seed, and to an elite 8 as an 11 seed. These were all over achievements, and as a result, their program has been elevated and now the recruits have followed. We can't just be satisfied with the status quo and make endless excuses.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. We need to beat better teams. Like Butler did, like Wichita state.
David is right. We end up being a jump-shooting team and is very hard to win that way.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It doesn't matter what was said. If you are a great coach, you come in and shut up the naysayers by recruiting great players, playing a strong schedule, keeping the team in the top 25, winning championships, and making some noise in March. You do that and this conversation would have been dead many years ago. A perfect example was this season. He started making inroads with the fans by winning, getting us ranked in the top 20, and looking like he was finally going to win some championships. The crowds came back. We started selling out the arena. It's that easy. But the season ended with all too familiar results and here we sit again. His supporters have all these theory's about all the barriers in front of him. Shaka Smart at VCU, BRAD Stevens at Butler, Mark Few at Gonzaga, Greg Marshall at Wichita, Bob Huggins at Cincinnati,CHris Mack at X, and many more had the same barriers and busted through those barriers to elevate their programs.

Mick has finally had two consecutive years of talented rosters to bust through those barriers. Last year was a huge disappointment. This season caused some huge cracks in the barriers, but he still didn't bust through. My prediction is that he'll finally bust through next year, but when he does, hopefully he has recruited well enough to sustain it. We can't fall back once we're through. I'm really looking forward to next season.

not even close. I hope Mick leaves or is terminated. The game has changed considerably. You think he is going to walk in and land 4 and 5 star recruits in this league not being P5 your fooling yourself. My guess is you won't know what you had until its gone.

Oh and he had a great season this year. Undefeated at home lost two conference games and lost in championship. In NCAA he lost to a much better team. If last year was a huge disappointment to you I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[ZCat]

We're going to be really good next year. I just hope we win the AAC regular season and or/Tournament. And when we get in the NCAA, go out guns blazing if we're going to go out. A guy like Evans can never take only 7 shots in a big game ever again.

Dang, he only took 7 shots. Didn't even realize that.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

not even close. I hope Mick leaves or is terminated. The game has changed considerably. You think he is going to walk in and land 4 and 5 star recruits in this league not being P5 your fooling yourself. My guess is you won't know what you had until its gone.

Oh and he had a great season this year. Undefeated at home lost two conference games and lost in championship. In NCAA he lost to a much better team. If last year was a huge disappointment to you I really don't know what to tell you.

??? I don't get this. Why wouldn't you hope he stays forever and becomes a Hall of Fame coach?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It doesn't matter what was said. If you are a great coach, you come in and shut up the naysayers by recruiting great players, playing a strong schedule, keeping the team in the top 25, winning championships, and making some noise in March. You do that and this conversation would have been dead many years ago. A perfect example was this season. He started making inroads with the fans by winning, getting us ranked in the top 20, and looking like he was finally going to win some championships. The crowds came back. We started selling out the arena. It's that easy. But the season ended with all too familiar results and here we sit again. His supporters have all these theory's about all the barriers in front of him. Shaka Smart at VCU, BRAD Stevens at Butler, Mark Few at Gonzaga, Greg Marshall at Wichita, Bob Huggins at Cincinnati,CHris Mack at X, and many more had the same barriers and busted through those barriers to elevate their programs.

Mick has finally had two consecutive years of talented rosters to bust through those barriers. Last year was a huge disappointment. This season caused some huge cracks in the barriers, but he still didn't bust through. My prediction is that he'll finally bust through next year, but when he does, hopefully he has recruited well enough to sustain it. We can't fall back once we're through. I'm really looking forward to next season.

It did take Mark Few 18 years to break through to the Final 4.