UC @ XU Official GAME Discussion

[ervins84]

A lot to say about your post above--First, while Tu looks to be struggling, he is trying to get his teammates more involved in the first half and then takes over in the second. (Mack sat down with him this week and told him he has to be more aggressive in the first half).

Also, I don't care what his numbers looked like- he scored 10 points in OT against Vandy, and he had 11 points in the last 90 seconds against Purdue. Take a second and think about that... that screams All American. The ability to take over a game when the team needs you the most is huge. Agreed? He didn't get those shots in the flow of the offense, maybe, but really when you are down 7 with 1:50 left you don't have time to get a flow of the offense.

I don't think the game comes down to guarding Tu, Lyons is very capable of winning a game by himself. I think UC will have to out rebound Xavier (tough thing to do- but last years UC team attacked the boards very well. Have not watched them this year) and I also think you need to give the ball to Gates as much as possible. He should have all the confidence in the world against Xavier after last year

If its really as simple as "taking over" and pressing play on his clutch gene, why not use the clutch gene the whole game LDO? Take a second and think about that. Which is more likely? he got hot for a short time period and ran above expecation? or he pressed play on his clutch gene?

I agree the balancing act for a scoring pt guard is a tough thing to try and handle, and that may be the legit reason for it, but that doesnt change that he was really poor in those games so far. Could he light UC up? Definitely could happen, especially with how cincy has guarded against penetrating guards this year.

 

[Kingsley Court]

I never said he wasnt a good player. I said hes not a player of the year player and has sucked in his last 4 games for the majority of the game.

Also, sick sample size on 8/16 from 3.

Hey, 50 percent is 50 percent. Also, while I agree he isn't "player of the year" material, he has sucked for the majority of the games but has done his thing when the team needed it the most. Sucking for the majority of the game and still averaging 18 points is pretty damn good.

Also, I don't think anyone is expecting him to have the points he did last year. Xavier has a lot more talent around him, and it's not like it was last year. While the team needed him to step up the past two games, he hasn't had to play the whole game like he has had to play the final 10 minutes. Last year, he had to go the whole game playing that way.

 

[ervins84]

Hey, 50 percent is 50 percent. Also, while I agree he isn't "player of the year" material, he has sucked for the majority of the games but has done his thing when the team needed it the most. Sucking for the majority of the game and still averaging 18 points is pretty damn good.

Also, I don't think anyone is expecting him to have the points he did last year. Xavier has a lot more talent around him, and it's not like it was last year. While the team needed him to step up the past two games, he hasn't had to play the whole game like he has had to play the final 10 minutes. Last year, he had to go the whole game playing that way.

so youre really going to go with hes a better shooter from the 3 pt line than on his 2 pt attempts including his laypups as a whole ? Bc hes 41.8% from the floor as a whole and that drops to 35.5% if you take out the first game he played vs IPFW. But 50% is 50%, so why would he even ever shoot a two pt attempt that wasnt a layup?

And really, a players point totals are really irrelevant. Its all about how efficiently they score and help teammates score (and preventing the same thing on the other end). His FT rate is what makes him a good player and is the most efficient part of his game. If Tu put up a game where he had 12 pts on 4/7 shooting with 9 assts, 1 to 7 rebds thats an extremely great offensive game. Tu scoring 24 points on 6-20 is not a good game. Having a negative asst to turnover ration and 6 turnovers in one game is not a good game. He can have a good finish to the game, but theres a lot more than the final 5 minutes.

Also, can we please stop with the hes waiting to turn it on, as if its this conscious choice that hes making. As if hes just magically turning it on at the most dramatic moment possible bc he wants to get guys involved and make the game closer than it would be if he really tried. They were down 19 with ~10 minutes to go with Purdue, but before that they were down double digits at halftime and yet he decided to wait till there was 10 minutes left in the game and let the lead grow to 19 to start playing? I dont buy that at all.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Hey, 50 percent is 50 percent. Also, while I agree he isn't "player of the year" material, he has sucked for the majority of the games but has done his thing when the team needed it the most. Sucking for the majority of the game and still averaging 18 points is pretty damn good.

Also, I don't think anyone is expecting him to have the points he did last year. Xavier has a lot more talent around him, and it's not like it was last year. While the team needed him to step up the past two games, he hasn't had to play the whole game like he has had to play the final 10 minutes. Last year, he had to go the whole game playing that way.

Yancy Gates is shooting 67% from 3....Xavier better keep him in check out there.

Obviously Tu is a pretty good shooter who you have to guard, but if he wants to sit around the perimeter and shoot 3's all game, I'd be fine with that.

 

[Kingsley Court]

Alright, it's tough to tell on the internet but I was just kidding around with "50 percent is 50 percent."

I just think it's funny that people bash Tu for his bad game, when he won the game for the team scoring 11 points in the final 2 minutes of the game. Scoring 11 points in 2 minutes to finish off a huge comeback , which won the game screams All American to me.

Tu Holloway is a great player, and he certainly is an All American. In UC fan's minds, Tu Holloway just had a horrible week..yet he was named player of the week by ESPN.

 

[thebeast]

Alright, it's tough to tell on the internet but I was just kidding around with "50 percent is 50 percent."

I just think it's funny that people bash Tu for his bad game, when he won the game for the team scoring 11 points in the final 2 minutes of the game. Scoring 11 points in 2 minutes to finish off a huge comeback , which won the game screams All American to me.

Tu Holloway is a great player, and he certainly is an All American. In UC fan's minds, Tu Holloway just had a horrible week..yet he was named player of the week by ESPN.

Tutu is a good player no doubt about it but all you have to do is frustrate him and be physical with him and he will lose it, then not show up for whole halves. When he gets frustrated he starts taking stupid shots and plays reckless. Thats what happened against Vandy, Purdue, Marquette and us last year. So it is pretty obvious what we have to do to shut him done. Just be physical. Those A-10 teams he scored on last year were not physical but the high major teams are and that is why he consistently struggles against high majors.

 

[Kingsley Court]

Tutu is a good player no doubt about it but all you have to do is frustrate him and be physical with him and he will lose it, then not show up for whole halves. When he gets frustrated he starts taking stupid shots and plays reckless. Thats what happened against Vandy, Purdue, Marquette and us last year. So it is pretty obvious what we have to do to shut him done. Just be physical. Those A-10 teams he scored on last year were not physical but the high major teams are and that is why he consistently struggles against high majors.

Vandy: 24 Pts, 5 Reb, 4 Ast, 3 Stl
Purdue:21 Pts, 4 Reb, 4 Ast, 1 St

Just wondering, what should his stats look like if he didn't struggle against Vandy and Purdue?

 

[thebeast]

Vandy: 24 Pts, 5 Reb, 4 Ast, 3 Stl
Purdue:21 Pts, 4 Reb, 4 Ast, 1 St

Just wondering, what should his stats look like if he didn't struggle against Vandy and Purdue?

You aren't looking at the whole picture. He shot 6-20 at Vandy and had some of thee worst shots I have seen from a player outside of Jihad. And if you watched the game I am sure you know what I am talking about. He also had 6 turnovers vs Purdue. If any of those teams could close out they would have lost their last two. And thats not up for debate.

 

[BearcatMick]

Alright, it's tough to tell on the internet but I was just kidding around with "50 percent is 50 percent."

I just think it's funny that people bash Tu for his bad game, when he won the game for the team scoring 11 points in the final 2 minutes of the game. Scoring 11 points in 2 minutes to finish off a huge comeback , which won the game screams All American to me.

Tu Holloway is a great player, and he certainly is an All American. In UC fan's minds, Tu Holloway just had a horrible week..yet he was named player of the week by ESPN.

So wrong its not even funny.

Mick will have a great game plan for tu and I fully expect him to be shut down again

 

[TheShoeFits]

You aren't looking at the whole picture. He shot 6-20 at Vandy and had some of thee worst shots I have seen from a player outside of Jihad. And if you watched the game I am sure you know what I am talking about. He also had 6 turnovers vs Purdue. If any of those teams could close out they would have lost their last two. And thats not up for debate.

And lets not forget that Vandy played without their best player.

 

[bearcat jeff]

One thing Tu can do is close a game. He does it by getting to the line and making those shots. UC needs to keep Tu out of the lane, and stay in Lyons face.

You may think I'm nuts but I think Gaines or Ellis could be big in this game. The extra fouls and shot blocking off the bench. Gaines attitude is made for this game. Guyn and Gaines both have the aggressive attitude required.

I also like what Mick is doing in practice to toughen this them and the fact he has taken the last two days to work on his team.

The Bearcats have to come in mentally ready. The school to remain nameless will come out sky high. They feel they owe UC. UC has to match the intensity early.

Does anybody know what conferences refs will officiate? Could make a difference at the line. Big East refs will ikely let them play more.

 

[ready2go]

One thing Tu can do is close a game. He does it by getting to the line and making those shots. UC needs to keep Tu out of the lane, and stay in Lyons face.

You may think I'm nuts but I think Gaines or Ellis could be big in this game. The extra fouls and shot blocking off the bench. Gaines attitude is made for this game. Guyn and Gaines both have the aggressive attitude required.

I also like what Mick is doing in practice to toughen this them and the fact he has taken the last two days to work on his team.

The Bearcats have to come in mentally ready. The school to remain nameless will come out sky high. They feel they owe UC. UC has to match the intensity early.

Does anybody know what conferences refs will officiate? Could make a difference at the line. Big East refs will ikely let them play more.

I agree with you on Javon Kearse, I mean Gaines. The guy is a beast. From the little I have seen of him on the court, I feel he is what the Cats need. The team can feed off of his aggressive play. Enough of the x's and o's this team needs to play with an edge and it starts with one guy bringing that style of play

 

[TheLongHaul]

I like what I've seen from Ellis (though I'm pretty sure he is out with injury for this game) but I have seen nothing out of Gaines that would lead me to believe he can even be the least bit productive against Xavier. Offensively he makes it tough because it becomes 4 on 5 and on defense he just seems out of position a whole lot.

 

[ready2go]

I like what I've seen from Ellis (though I'm pretty sure he is out with injury for this game) but I have seen nothing out of Gaines that would lead me to believe he can even be the least bit productive against Xavier. Offensively he makes it tough because it becomes 4 on 5 and on defense he just seems out of position a whole lot.

Correction,

Its 0 on 5 as it is on offense

From the few minutes I saw of him, atleast he wants to be in there. Only more PT will get him comfortable

 

[bearcat jeff]

Xavier is very aggressive. We have to have guys in there that will match that aggression. Especially on the boards. If UC isn't at least even on the boards they have no shot. Yancy. Mbodji and Jackson have to come with an "I want every rebound" mentallity.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Oh how I wish being comfortable was the issue with him...I do find it ironic that someone that has been bitching non-stop about the offense (rightfully so most of the time) wants to give more playing time to the most inept offensive player on the team.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Oh how I wish being comfortable was the issue with him...I do find it ironic that someone that has been bitching non-stop about the offense (rightfully so most of the time) wants to give more playing time to the most inept offensive player on the team.

But you would agree that there is something to be said that if you can't score you need defense/rebounding to give you more opportunities right? I believe what we are referring to is an influx of attitude. Nobody is suggesting that he play 25 minutes. Only that energy off the bench can't hurt.

 

[UCBearcats]

Xavier is very aggressive. We have to have guys in there that will match that aggression. Especially on the boards. If UC isn't at least even on the boards they have no shot. Yancy. Mbodji and Jackson have to come with an "I want every rebound" mentallity.

You know what I'd like to see for the game? How bout for just one game we actually try to run an offense that is centered around Yancy? There should be a rule that Yancy cannot touch the ball outside of the 3 point line. Instead of having Yancy start every possession by running up to the point guard and taking a handoff pass from him why don't we try having him come off screens in the lane or maybe we could even have him post up down low?(I know, I know...it sounds crazy but I've heard that other teams are doing it).

Maybe if we actually feed the ball down to Yancy he can take advantage of the obvious mis-match with Kenny Freeze. Instead of Mick trying to have his guys pass the ball 7 or 8 times to get to the open shot, which is always a 17 footer or beyond, why not feed the ball to Yancy. Once the ball is in Yancy's hands he can either go up for a shot, kick to a cutting Dixon or Killa, or draw the double team and kick the ball back out to the open shooter.

I know that this sounds like the craziest idea ever and clearly we wouldn't want to shake things up when our offense is running so well. I just suggest we try it for one game, see what happens. I seem to remember that we started doing something similar at the end of last season and actually began to win games. Winning games probably sounds crazy to some of you as well, remember when we used to do that? I know it's been a while but we actually did used to win a lot more games than we lost.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I agree!

 

[dp3113]

You know what I'd like to see for the game? How bout for just one game we actually try to run an offense that is centered around Yancy? There should be a rule that Yancy cannot touch the ball outside of the 3 point line. Instead of having Yancy start every possession by running up to the point guard and taking a handoff pass from him why don't we try having him come off screens in the lane or maybe we could even have him post up down low?(I know, I know...it sounds crazy but I've heard that other teams are doing it).

Maybe if we actually feed the ball down to Yancy he can take advantage of the obvious mis-match with Kenny Freeze. Instead of Mick trying to have his guys pass the ball 7 or 8 times to get to the open shot, which is always a 17 footer or beyond, why not feed the ball to Yancy. Once the ball is in Yancy's hands he can either go up for a shot, kick to a cutting Dixon or Killa, or draw the double team and kick the ball back out to the open shooter.

I know that this sounds like the craziest idea ever and clearly we wouldn't want to shake things up when our offense is running so well. I just suggest we try it for one game, see what happens. I seem to remember that we started doing something similar at the end of last season and actually began to win games. Winning games probably sounds crazy to some of you as well, remember when we used to do that? I know it's been a while but we actually did used to win a lot more games than we lost.

i'd also love to see yancy actually jump off the ground for rebounds. something he hasnt done much of lately.

post play is a 2 way street. yancy needs to 1) seal off his defender/gain feed-able position in the post. 2) demand the ball.

not trying to be a downer here, but hes in his fourth year and at somepoint has to take control of this team. playing at 85% effort doesnt show leadership.