upstate game thread

[Patrick Bateman]

At the football games, what is there to keep you entertained at halftime and timeouts? Concessions are the same at Nippert, maybe a few more beer selections but that is about it.

Again these are not the main issues.

 

[L-T]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The fans just have not gotten excited enough about the program yet. We need to be back in the final 4 or get in the top 10. If we start the season with a high ranking even the early season patsies will sell out (or at least come close). All this BS about the Shoe and parking and Clifton and schedule etc...NONE of them are difference makers. They might keep a few butts out of the seats but someone will pick those up if we have a red hot team. The difference maker is getting this team back into the Contender category rather than the Pretender category when it comes to NCAA tourney chances.

Bingo! Couldn't have said it better myself. And guess what, you're not going to get a high ranking until you start beating someone decent or your program commands it based on its year over year results. The crappy Shoe has always been crappy. Clifton is much nicer now than it was in the 90s. Parking is better now. We had one or two seasons where every game was a sellout and almost never averaged under 12,000 fans per year. In Huggins last year (when everyone on here said attendance was seriously in decline), we ranked 27th in the the country in average attendance at 11,304 per game. Even in 2002/2003 with a 17-12 record we averaged 12,182 per game (25th nationally)....same old crappy Shoe, crappy clifton, crappy parking.

This site loves to make excuses for Mick. As we saw a month or so ago, Louiville has dropped us from future schedules. Here is the quote from Rick Pitino.

“Mick’s a very close friend and ex-colleague of mine, but Memphis asked first,” Pitino said earlier this week. “Had Mick asked first it would have been him on the schedule rather than Memphis, but Memphis asked first.”

Looks like Mick really isn't begging hard enough does it? Even with a natural, long-time rival such as Louisville, we are now not even going to play them anymore because Mick wasn't proactive. We'd rather go aggressively after Southeast New Hampshire Downstate I guess.

 

[JasonS]

^^^
The above debate has been going on for years... There are several factors.
- The Shoe... Most dont want to watch games there
- Ticket Price... Lower section, even chair back sections are expensive.
- Competition...
- Clifton... Who wants to be in clifton? While the campus is decent, parking, and surrounding area is awful.
- Sad, but true... post Huggins.. was a rough couple of years. The tweener fans left.

I agree with the Shoe being a deterrent. When I am looking for tickets, if I can't get tickets in the lower bowl, I typically don't go. My 4 year old loves going but she gets bored if she is too far away from the court and unable to see the game or Bearcat.

The ticket prices are not an issue IMO. You can get tickets in the lower bowl for $35 each plus $3 for tickets by email. $38 for a ticket that close to the action is a deal. By contrast, thanks to Ticketmaster, tickets in the same spot at US Bank is $47 plus $12.75 "inconvenience charge." People should be grateful that UC games are so affordable and family friendly (your kids are free if under 4 and sitting on your lap). I live in Columbus and it is not that way at Ohio State games. I never go to them as I hate OSU but I hear plenty of complaining about $75 football tickets for the last row in the stadium against all the BS teams they play out of conference. Basketball isn't much better. You aren't sitting in the lower bowl for cheaper than about $50. I agree that the value at the Shoe in the rows in the upper deck above the chair back seats (really outside of about the first 10-12 rows) is terrible only because the view is awful. Outside of that, I think UC does a great job of giving value.

One thing that is intriguing me about attendance is that we never hear about paid attendance. I have been looking online for tickets lately, and it is really difficult to find lower bowl tickets for pretty much all the home games. Then I watch the game last night and there are empty seats everywhere. It seems to me that people are buying tickets but not showing up to the games. I'd like to see a break down between tickets purchased and actual attendance. I bet it is significantly different, at least in the lower sections.

 

[L-T]

I agree with the Shoe being a deterrent. When I am looking for tickets, if I can't get tickets in the lower bowl, I typically don't go. My 4 year old loves going but she gets bored if she is too far away from the court and unable to see the game or Bearcat.

The ticket prices are not an issue IMO. You can get tickets in the lower bowl for $35 each plus $3 for tickets by email. $38 for a ticket that close to the action is a deal. By contrast, thanks to Ticketmaster, tickets in the same spot at US Bank is $47 plus $12.75 "inconvenience charge." People should be grateful that UC games are so affordable and family friendly (your kids are free if under 4 and sitting on your lap). I live in Columbus and it is not that way at Ohio State games. I never go to them as I hate OSU but I hear plenty of complaining about $75 football tickets for the last row in the stadium against all the BS teams they play out of conference. Basketball isn't much better. You aren't sitting in the lower bowl for cheaper than about $50. I agree that the value at the Shoe in the rows in the upper deck above the chair back seats (really outside of about the first 10-12 rows) is terrible only because the view is awful. Outside of that, I think UC does a great job of giving value.

One thing that is intriguing me about attendance is that we never hear about paid attendance. I have been looking online for tickets lately, and it is really difficult to find lower bowl tickets for pretty much all the home games. Then I watch the game last night and there are empty seats everywhere. It seems to me that people are buying tickets but not showing up to the games. I'd like to see a break down between tickets purchased and actual attendance. I bet it is significantly different, at least in the lower sections.

The city and our fans have proven they will show up and attend games at the miserable Shoe when the program is relevent nationally and interesting enough for them to spend their money. Scheduling is a big part of that equation. It is the head coach's job to get us to that point. He obviously hasn't accomplished that in seven and a half years.

In his year's here, Cronin hasn't even outdrawn the Andy Kennedy team a single time. Kennedy averaged 9,300 fans a game in the year following the Nancy Zimpher debacle when the program was in meltdown. He hasn't outdrawn Xavier in a single year, and that fact is really sad...even though the Cintas Center capacity is 3,000 less than the Shoe.....and all of this in spite of playing in the Big East.

I can see scheduling softer in the OOC while playing in the Big East, but we certainly don't have to go all the way to the bottom of the barrel to schedule. Bearcat NTS posted some absolute bogus schedule strength numbers in an earlier post. Kenpom today has our schedule strength at 348 out of 351 D1 teams. I refuse to believe that mid-majors right in our own backyard won't play us....teams that would greatly upgrade how our schedule would appeal to potential fans. Even Northern Kentucky is ranked higher than a number of the cupcakes on our schedule. Why not Dayton, Miami, Saint louis, Indiana St., Ohio U., Toledo, Wright St., Akron, Kent St., Morehead St., Western Ky., Eastern Ky., Evansville, Youngstown St., Cleveland St., Marshall, Bowling Green, Miami, and obviously Northern Ky.? All these programs are way more appealing to the eye than UMASS Lowell, Campbell, USC Upstate, etc. and still provide pretty much a guaranteed win and a serious upgrade to our schedule strength, plus they are all close enough to bring fans with them.

 

[CaptDale]

Anybody notice that last night was the first time we faced a big in the paint? Buchannon is 6'11"/250. Had he not fouled out, he was giving JJ and TR fits on the boards. He's just a freshman, too. Had seven boards and 2 blocks in 16 minutes till he fouled out. Wait until we face Kirk on Sat. He's averaging 21pts/12rbs/4blks. Hope Mick has a plan.

 

[Scheids21]

http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog.html?article=11879522

Here is Lance's take on what the program needs to do to up attendance. LT, Lance touches on scheduling local teams rather than the nobodies. He has some good ideas actually, and its an interesting read.

 

[JackBauer151]

I think LT makes a good point in half of his argument and shits the bed in the other half. There is no doubt that UC has lost the "Casual" fan. Coach Tuberville talked about getting more "Walk on" fans as in those who are not UC students or Alumni. This obviously applies to basketball as well. LT's point that the cupcakes hurt this effort is undeniably true. I am as big as UC basketball fan as they come and sometimes I even think to myself, "Do I actually want to leave the house on Tuesday night to see UC dismantle a team Ive never heard of in 20 degree weather and try to find a decent parking spot?" Im sure I'm not the only one. The point is the fan experience is just bad at the shoe. Lance had some really great ideas on his blog and I think many of them would go a long way to put more butts in the seats. However you have to be playing some people with some sort of name recognition that gives people a reason to go in the first place. Local teams are a great place to start. I know many people who are the casual fan that live in Hyde Park and go to Xavier games all the time simply because they view it as a social event. Definitely not a social event at the shoe. UC needs to somehow make this a part of the marketing plan. Where I disagree with LT is his ignoring the facts. To compare Mick to AK is disingenuous and stupid. That year was all about supporting the team that lost Huggins. Money, Tv, and other schools agenda's all play a role in this. If you actually believe Mick hasnt called all the big boys to try and get a game you are crazy. Mick wants to elevate his program to that top 15 status annually. You do this by playing and beating other teams perceived to be in that category. But, they have to say yes. The tv schedule has to work out. OSU will never come to the Shoe. Never, no matter how many times we call. They are just protecting their program. So to blame Mick for big name schools not coming in (Let us not forget New Mexico, NC State, and Michigan all on the schedule) is ignoring what the reality of the situation is. The more we win the more acceptable it is to lose to us in our gym. That's why the schedule keeps getting better. It will continue to do so if we keep the upward trend. So should we be playing better mid majors with better name recognition? Absolutely. Is it Mick Cronin's fault we can not get a large number of high majors in our gym for the OOC schedule? Absolutely not. Mick has quite a few things that he needs to do better to get this program back to that elite level but not scheduling people who wont play him is not one of them.

 

[Nomadic1]

I wish we could go a couple of months without the same stupid conversation about attendance.
We have an ugly building that wasn't intended as a basketball arena.
We are in a pro sports town full of old fogeys, who don't like change.
We had a few down years and are still recovering.

Just let it go... Most kids don't know UC used to be good at basketball anymore. We're making progress under Mick and with repeated trips to the NCAA, we'll keep pulling more in.

 

[Nomadic1]

Anybody notice that last night was the first time we faced a big in the paint? Buchannon is 6'11"/250. Had he not fouled out, he was giving JJ and TR fits on the boards. He's just a freshman, too. Had seven boards and 2 blocks in 16 minutes till he fouled out. Wait until we face Kirk on Sat. He's averaging 21pts/12rbs/4blks. Hope Mick has a plan.

... His two blocks were against shorter opponents. As for his boards, he's a space eater. To be expected. As far as New Mexico goes, they just survived UAB. They're not the team we faced last year.

 

[charlie hustle]

I blame Ticketmaster. I bought my tickets the minute they went on sale, and it didn't ask me "UC side" or "Xavier side". I just hit best available, and wound up with two tix on the Xavier side. Didn't know it till after I got them. Boy is this going to be awkward.

contact ticketmaster!
the same thing happened to me but i called them and explained the rivalry to the chick on the phone.
it took her a while to fix, but she was able to put me in UC's section.

and NOW they have the UC/x option.

 

[charlie hustle]

http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog.html?article=11879522

Here is Lance's take on what the program needs to do to up attendance. LT, Lance touches on scheduling local teams rather than the nobodies. He has some good ideas actually, and its an interesting read.

yep those are great ideas!
a couple other halftime/time out ideas:

when those area youth teams are invited, have them put on a quick 5-10 minute exhibition (full court). not only would that be intriguing to watch, this would coax the youth players' families to want to attend/buy tickets.

bring down fans to put in relay activities. goofy stuff like riding miniature bikes around obstacles, etc.

have a race between 2 fans. shoot from the block, then the FT line, then the 3 point line.

Just let it go... Most kids don't know UC used to be good at basketball anymore. We're making progress under Mick and with repeated trips to the NCAA, we'll keep pulling more in.

sad, but true. the k-mart days are long gone. but this is still a quality team that deserves attendance.
reds have been putting up a quality PRO team for years, and we continue to put up luke-warm attendance numbers for those games, too.

however, trying to blame just ONE factor for attendance just doesn't make sense. it's a combination of reasons, whether it be the urban atmosphere of Clifton, lack of parking, the Shoe is ugly/old, cupcake schedule, tickets are too expensive, lack of entertainment, crummy concessions, etc.

i don't know, just a bummer situation as a whole; i don't really have any groundbreaking suggestions.

 

[Robert]

I can see scheduling softer in the OOC while playing in the Big East, but we certainly don't have to go all the way to the bottom of the barrel to schedule. Bearcat NTS posted some absolute bogus schedule strength numbers in an earlier post. Kenpom today has our schedule strength at 348 out of 351 D1 teams. I refuse to believe that mid-majors right in our own backyard won't play us....teams that would greatly upgrade how our schedule would appeal to potential fans. Even Northern Kentucky is ranked higher than a number of the cupcakes on our schedule. Why not Dayton, Miami, Saint louis, Indiana St., Ohio U., Toledo, Wright St., Akron, Kent St., Morehead St., Western Ky., Eastern Ky., Evansville, Youngstown St., Cleveland St., Marshall, Bowling Green, Miami, and obviously Northern Ky.? All these programs are way more appealing to the eye than UMASS Lowell, Campbell, USC Upstate, etc. and still provide pretty much a guaranteed win and a serious upgrade to our schedule strength, plus they are all close enough to bring fans with them.

EXACTLY. This is what I've been screaming for a while now. What's the point in having 10 home games out of conference if nobody has heard of 7 or 8 of those teams? Opening up with 7 home games in a row with only one of them (N.C. State) against a big-name opponent leads to fan apathy/6,000 attendance games.

Go on the road or play at a neutral site an extra 2 times per year. This gives you opportunities to play on national television, and if I'm not mistaken, schools get more TV money in these games. Having 7-8 home games against cupcakes is ridiculous and doesn't do jack to help attendance.

Then, for your home games, focus on scheduling MAC, A-10, and Conference USA schools that people have heard of. Renew a home-and-home with Dayton, as they are guaranteed to put butts in the seats -- both our fans and theirs. Get Ohio University and Marshall on the schedule, two schools that have alumni bases in the area and will help with attendance AND RPI. Miami would put some butts in the seats as well. Limit your directional schools in the south/east coast that no one has ever heard of to 2-3 games per year. Mick Cronin has good relationships with Huggins and Pitino... try harder to get more games with Louisville and West Virginia, even if it's only possible every couple of years.

No one is asking Cincinnati to play Ohio State, Kentucky, and Indiana on a yearly basis... or ever for that matter. We all know it's not going to happen. But there are a ton of quality MAC schools in this area who would be RPI and attendance upgrades over the Kennesaw States and Chicago States of the world. I would rather Cincinnati play a QUALITY schedule with 7-8 home games than a cupcake schedule with 10 home games. What's better -- 10 home games at 6,000 per, or 8 home games at 8,000 per? With better scheduling, we could have more overall attendance with less games, which means less operating costs, more exposure, and more fan excitement.

 

[L-T]

I think LT makes a good point in half of his argument and shits the bed in the other half. There is no doubt that UC has lost the "Casual" fan. Coach Tuberville talked about getting more "Walk on" fans as in those who are not UC students or Alumni. This obviously applies to basketball as well. LT's point that the cupcakes hurt this effort is undeniably true. I am as big as UC basketball fan as they come and sometimes I even think to myself, "Do I actually want to leave the house on Tuesday night to see UC dismantle a team Ive never heard of in 20 degree weather and try to find a decent parking spot?" Im sure I'm not the only one. The point is the fan experience is just bad at the shoe. Lance had some really great ideas on his blog and I think many of them would go a long way to put more butts in the seats. However you have to be playing some people with some sort of name recognition that gives people a reason to go in the first place. Local teams are a great place to start. I know many people who are the casual fan that live in Hyde Park and go to Xavier games all the time simply because they view it as a social event. Definitely not a social event at the shoe. UC needs to somehow make this a part of the marketing plan. Where I disagree with LT is his ignoring the facts. To compare Mick to AK is disingenuous and stupid. That year was all about supporting the team that lost Huggins. Money, Tv, and other schools agenda's all play a role in this. If you actually believe Mick hasnt called all the big boys to try and get a game you are crazy. Mick wants to elevate his program to that top 15 status annually. You do this by playing and beating other teams perceived to be in that category. But, they have to say yes. The tv schedule has to work out. OSU will never come to the Shoe. Never, no matter how many times we call. They are just protecting their program. So to blame Mick for big name schools not coming in (Let us not forget New Mexico, NC State, and Michigan all on the schedule) is ignoring what the reality of the situation is. The more we win the more acceptable it is to lose to us in our gym. That's why the schedule keeps getting better. It will continue to do so if we keep the upward trend. So should we be playing better mid majors with better name recognition? Absolutely. Is it Mick Cronin's fault we can not get a large number of high majors in our gym for the OOC schedule? Absolutely not. Mick has quite a few things that he needs to do better to get this program back to that elite level but not scheduling people who wont play him is not one of them.

Again.....Rick Pitino's quote....not mine.....“Mick’s a very close friend and ex-colleague of mine, but Memphis asked first,” Pitino said earlier this week. “Had Mick asked first it would have been him on the schedule rather than Memphis, but Memphis asked first.”

Louisville is an absolute no brainer annual game and Mick dropped the ball. There are 350 potential opponents. I don't believe for a minute that he can't schedule teams that at least bring our schedule strength under 200. Today, it is a robust 348 of 351 teams. Not a single coach gave us a vote in the coach's poll. Only 8 gave us votes in the AP. You don't think our schedule has a lot to do with that? I don't care how good USC Upstate and NC Central are. The whole world believes they are patsies no matter how high they are ranked in Kenpom (which today is 128 and 108). Even though their rank would suggest they are a mid-major, nobody views them as mid-major. One is in the America Sun and the other is in the MEAC...not mid-major conferences. Those are low major.

Until Mick signs some top recruits, plays the best competition, has the program consistently in the Top 20, makes some long runs in the NCAA, etc., the fans just won't embrace him or the program. We've been to the NCAA tournament 3 straight years and have played in the top conference in the world. To offer up some lame excuse why he can't take down the Andy Kennedy team in average attendance is just that...an excuse. Bottom line, there is no excuse for our attendance. There are only facts. He hasn't been a great recruiter like we all thought he would be, and his OOC schedule has been pathetic. In the first 17 years of the Shoe, playing only in a Mid-major conference, we only drew under 10,000 fans per game twice....in the 1st year and in the Andy Kennedy year. There were only two other years where we drew under 12,000 fans per game...in Huggs last year and in 1998. Playing in the #1 conference in the world under Mick, we haven't had a single season that supassed any of the previous 17.

Under Mick's watch, Xavier has supassed us in attendance and in conference affiliation. Oh by the way, Xavier can somehow play an OOC schedule that includes....Tennessee twice, Morehead St., Miami, Iowa, Southern Cal, Bowling Green, Evansville, Cincinnati, Alabama, Wake Forest, etc. Amazing how teams are dying to play in Cintas with a capacity of 3,000 less than the Shoe, but Mick somehow scares all of them away.

 

[Robert]

From Lance's blog, attendance figures this season:

6,532 North Carolina Central
7,028 North Carolina State
6,194 Appalachian State
6,011 Campbell
5,477 UMass-Lowell
6,627 Kennesaw State
5,113 USC Upstate

Imagine we don't play SEVEN home games in a row to open the season, which is ridiculous in itself. It's a lot easier to get people to attend multiple games when they aren't going on twice a week...

Replace those games with, say...

8,000 Miami
10,000 Dayton
7,000 Marshall
road/neutral game
road/neutral game
6,500 Campbell
9,000 Michigan
Crosstown Shootout
7,000 Northern Kentucky
road/neutral game
6,500 Akron
7,500 Ohio University
road/neutral game

These are just guesses off the top of my head, obviously, but I think they are decent guesses. Spreading the home games out a little more would help attendance, in my opinion. And bringing in schools that people have heard of will DEFINITELY help attendance. In this scenario, with 8 home games instead of 10, I think you would still have more total attendance than the 10 lousy home games we have this season.

 

[Robert]

Another way of looking at it... if we are going to schedule 13 games out of conference, it could go something like this:

-2 games per year in a pre-season tournament (knowing the first game of the tournament is often against a cupcake)

-Crosstown Shootout (I refuse to call it Classic)

-4 home-and-homes per year (so 2 home games, 2 road games) against teams in good conferences (power 5, Big East, A-10, Mountain West)

-3 home games against local schools like Miami, Ohio, NKY

-3 home games against cupcakes

That leaves you with 4 games against cupcakes, 3 against smaller local schools, and 6 quality opponents from good conferences, understanding that maybe 3 or 4 out of the 6 will be tournament teams. Tough schedule? Yes, but not brutal or unheard of by any means.

 

[waterhead]

The city and our fans have proven they will show up and attend games at the miserable Shoe when the program is relevent nationally and interesting enough for them to spend their money. Scheduling is a big part of that equation. It is the head coach's job to get us to that point. He obviously hasn't accomplished that in seven and a half years.

In his year's here, Cronin hasn't even outdrawn the Andy Kennedy team a single time. Kennedy averaged 9,300 fans a game in the year following the Nancy Zimpher debacle when the program was in meltdown. He hasn't outdrawn Xavier in a single year, and that fact is really sad...even though the Cintas Center capacity is 3,000 less than the Shoe.....and all of this in spite of playing in the Big East.

I can see scheduling softer in the OOC while playing in the Big East, but we certainly don't have to go all the way to the bottom of the barrel to schedule. Bearcat NTS posted some absolute bogus schedule strength numbers in an earlier post. Kenpom today has our schedule strength at 348 out of 351 D1 teams. I refuse to believe that mid-majors right in our own backyard won't play us....teams that would greatly upgrade how our schedule would appeal to potential fans. Even Northern Kentucky is ranked higher than a number of the cupcakes on our schedule. Why not Dayton, Miami, Saint louis, Indiana St., Ohio U., Toledo, Wright St., Akron, Kent St., Morehead St., Western Ky., Eastern Ky., Evansville, Youngstown St., Cleveland St., Marshall, Bowling Green, Miami, and obviously Northern Ky.? All these programs are way more appealing to the eye than UMASS Lowell, Campbell, USC Upstate, etc. and still provide pretty much a guaranteed win and a serious upgrade to our schedule strength, plus they are all close enough to bring fans with them.

I would agree it would make more sense to schedule a few of the teams on your list. Should help SOS and attendance a little.

What I disagree with is that we have to have a better SOS in order to get a high ranking or to sell the arena out. All we need is an outstanding record and show that we can beat anybody. It may take longer to sell it out...but eventually it will as long as you prove to be an elite team.

 

[Robert]

I would agree it would make more sense to schedule a few of the teams on your list. Should help SOS and attendance a little.

What I disagree with is that we have to have a better SOS in order to get a high ranking or to sell the arena out. All we need is an outstanding record and show that we can beat anybody. It may take longer to sell it out...but eventually it will as long as you prove to be an elite team.

But what this team, and athletic program in general, needs right now is fan support and money. Of the 7 games we've played at home right now, replace one or two of those with a quality opponent, and another one or two of those with a local opponent, and you're looking at much better attendance AND being ranked in the top 25 if we were still 7-0 at this point. Then the ranking snowballs into even higher attendance figures. We have to get the ball rolling early in the season to generate excitement and revenue for the program. The first 7 games of this schedule are nothing short of unacceptable.

 

[#BearcatNation]

contact ticketmaster!
the same thing happened to me but i called them and explained the rivalry to the chick on the phone.
it took her a while to fix, but she was able to put me in UC's section.

and NOW they have the UC/x option.

Do you think they'll be able to find me seats equal to as good as mine? I'm in section 213 halfway up right now, which aren't amazing seats, but I don't want to move to upper corner seats and pay the same price just to be on UC's side.

 

[Robert]

When I look at the schedules of teams in our conference, I notice a common trend -- Temple plays all the schools in Philadelphia (I know that's the result of the Big 5, but still... no reason we can't do something similar in Cincinnati/Dayton)... UConn plays schools in the northeast like Boston University, Yale, Maine, etc... Houston and SMU play at least 5 games each against schools in Texas.

This area is a hot bed for college hoops. You've got your bigger programs like Ohio State, Kentucky, Indiana, Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Xavier, Butler, Notre Dame, Purdue, Dayton... then quality MVC, MAC, etc. schools like Ohio, Miami, Akron, Toledo, Indiana State, Evansville, Marshall, Western Kentucky... and a couple of local programs like Wright State and Northern Kentucky. There are PLENTY of schools in the region we can play. Why do we keep playing these crappy schools in the south from literally the worst conferences in college basketball?

 

[JackBauer151]

Again.....Rick Pitino's quote....not mine.....“Mick’s a very close friend and ex-colleague of mine, but Memphis asked first,” Pitino said earlier this week. “Had Mick asked first it would have been him on the schedule rather than Memphis, but Memphis asked first.”

Louisville is an absolute no brainer annual game and Mick dropped the ball. There are 350 potential opponents. I don't believe for a minute that he can't schedule teams that at least bring our schedule strength under 200. Today, it is a robust 348 of 351 teams. Not a single coach gave us a vote in the coach's poll. Only 8 gave us votes in the AP. You don't think our schedule has a lot to do with that? I don't care how good USC Upstate and NC Central are. The whole world believes they are patsies no matter how high they are ranked in Kenpom (which today is 128 and 108). Even though their rank would suggest they are a mid-major, nobody views them as mid-major. One is in the America Sun and the other is in the MEAC...not mid-major conferences. Those are low major.

Until Mick signs some top recruits, plays the best competition, has the program consistently in the Top 20, makes some long runs in the NCAA, etc., the fans just won't embrace him or the program. We've been to the NCAA tournament 3 straight years and have played in the top conference in the world. To offer up some lame excuse why he can't take down the Andy Kennedy team in average attendance is just that...an excuse. Bottom line, there is no excuse for our attendance. There are only facts. He hasn't been a great recruiter like we all thought he would be, and his OOC schedule has been pathetic. In the first 17 years of the Shoe, playing only in a Mid-major conference, we only drew under 10,000 fans per game twice....in the 1st year and in the Andy Kennedy year. There were only two other years where we drew under 12,000 fans per game...in Huggs last year and in 1998. Playing in the #1 conference in the world under Mick, we haven't had a single season that supassed any of the previous 17.

Under Mick's watch, Xavier has supassed us in attendance and in conference affiliation. Oh by the way, Xavier can somehow play an OOC schedule that includes....Tennessee twice, Morehead St., Miami, Iowa, Southern Cal, Bowling Green, Evansville, Cincinnati, Alabama, Wake Forest, etc. Amazing how teams are dying to play in Cintas with a capacity of 3,000 less than the Shoe, but Mick somehow scares all of them away.

So many things wrong with this post. First off you have no idea what the circumstances were behind Mick not calling Pitino. So saying he dropped the ball when you have no earthly idea what went on is making a quick assumption. Again I agree with your point about scheduling better OOC mid majors. Im not even going to respond to the AK nonsense again. Stupid on all levels. Mick's first 5 years here were a disaster. Who would want to play us? While that was going on Xavier was winning conference titles and going to the sweet 16. With schedules being made years out in advance is it really surprising that X is able to get better games than we are? No. The reasons for the shitty schedule are pretty identifiable. This is not a video game where you can just pick who you want to play. You have to make the right decision for your program and it has to coincide with a plethora of other factors. The schedule is getting better (And has to) with us losing the Beast conference. Also keep in mind a lot of the great games played in OOC are early season tournaments. Most can only take one team from a conference. When we were in the BEAST its tough to get those games because the tournaments have so many good teams to chose from. I agree Mick has to do a better job at a lot of areas but he takes much more heat on this subject than he deserves. Also way to go UC fans for the NC State game. That team had multiple McDonalds All Americans on it and we managed just over 7,000 fans. Need to do our part too.