USF

[cincyguy13]

Tonight was a bad loss. I don't care how you put it.

For the second consecutive game, we really missed Diarra. Not having an athletic option at the 5 to at least throw in there for spot minutes could very well be the death of this team.

For the second consecutive year Vogt lost the 1-on-1 match-up vs Durr.

Rap - god bless him, for all of his positive attributes (high character, intelligent, aggressive) is not a high major basketball player. Brannen signing him based off last year's Colgate performance is a move straight out of the Jeff Berding FC Cincinnati playbook (hope there's at least one poster here who gets that reference). I consider him a bigger miss than McNeal at this point.

Keith's foul trouble is a major issue - like a potentially season-defining problem. If he can't be on the court for at least 30 minutes/game, we're just not going to win many games with this bunch.

Dejulius and MAW are both struggling to adapt to new roles.

Harvey shows flashes of brilliance combined with long spells of inactivity.

Davenport had little impact on the game despite nearly playing the most minutes of anyone.

Eason was great.

The whole team seems to be still trying to figure out their roles. Which sucks, but understandable with a lot of new guys.

 

[Queens_NYC]

The whole team seems to be still trying to figure out their roles. Which sucks, but understandable with a lot of new guys.

It does suck but is understandable. I have to remember we started 8-6 last year under similar circumstances (from a roster standpoint) with losses to Bowling Green, Colgate, and Tulane before things really started to gel.

 

[skyblade]

I am okay with a rebuilding year, assuming we see progress. But multi-year rebuild is in my mind just code for bad coaching. With basketball the way it is and especially a program at UC's level, a multiple year rebuild should not happen. It's one thing if Brannen inherited a disaster, but he didn't.

One of the concerning things this game is that we don't seem to be seeing progress. In fact, I saw a coach who might be starting to lose control of his team. You could see Brannen's frustration early in the game. He tried subbing in players very early - first Rap for Vogt, then a whole lineup - later he switched to zone for extended periods. Nothing worked. Cronin always had some guys who would play defense and give high effort even if they were terrible on offense, Brannen doesn't have anyone like that.

It's hard to take Brannen's concern for defense seriously. Of the three seniors, two are so bad at defense they would never see the floor under a coach like Cronin and Keith only plays defense about 25% of the time. Between that and playing Rap/Vogt at the most important defensive position on the floor, it's hard to believe Brannen's message about defense. It seems like the team doesn't really believe either.

The depth in theory allows Brannen to sub guys in when somebody doesn't give enough effort. But what happens if no one on the team tries? It also seems like Brannen is selective in who he calls out, even though no one is trying - he benched DeJulius for an extended period this game - which can build resentment quickly. It's one thing to bench the one guy who isn't giving effort, but again, what do you do when no one is. Huggins would have put the walk-ons in the game, but Brannen doesn't seem up for that.

This game gave me serious concerns not just for this season, but for our future. As others have pointed out, we have no one recruited for next season. I know Brannen uses Covid as an excuse, but Covid didn't stop Luke Fickell from filling every football scholarship during early signing.

It is hard to find guys to play center who are going to be good year one. Even transfers aren't a sure thing. Our center position looks bad this year, but may be even worse next year if Diarra doesn't return.

Not a lot of positives to take from the game. This team looks like it's probably our worst in at least 10-15 years and the worst defensive team in my memory. Eason was a bright spot, but that's about it. We also managed to throw off USF's rhythm for a bit with the press.

Even though the final score was close, it was another game where it never really felt like we would win. USF got the lead and kept it, every time we'd get close or tie it up they had an answer.

My expectations were low for this year, but this team looks to be even worse than I expected. If we lose to Georgia, that is probably the end of any hope to make the NCAA tournament outside of a miracle beating Houston to win the AAC tournament.

Even in the Cronin rebuild years, at least we had guys who were tough, brought intensity and effort. This team looks soft and seems to not particularly care about defense. Brannen can coach defense all he likes, first he needs to do something to change the entire mental makeup of the team.

 

[cincyguy13]

I am okay with a rebuilding year, assuming we see progress. But multi-year rebuild is in my mind just code for bad coaching. With basketball the way it is and especially a program at UC's level, a multiple year rebuild should not happen. It's one thing if Brannen inherited a disaster, but he didn't.

One of the concerning things this game is that we don't seem to be seeing progress. In fact, I saw a coach who might be starting to lose control of his team. You could see Brannen's frustration early in the game. He tried subbing in players very early - first Rap for Vogt, then a whole lineup - later he switched to zone for extended periods. Nothing worked. Cronin always had some guys who would play defense and give high effort even if they were terrible on offense, Brannen doesn't have anyone like that.

It's hard to take Brannen's concern for defense seriously. Of the three seniors, two are so bad at defense they would never see the floor under a coach like Cronin and Keith only plays defense about 25% of the time. Between that and playing Rap/Vogt at the most important defensive position on the floor, it's hard to believe Brannen's message about defense. It seems like the team doesn't really believe either.

The depth in theory allows Brannen to sub guys in when somebody doesn't give enough effort. But what happens if no one on the team tries? It also seems like Brannen is selective in who he calls out, even though no one is trying - he benched DeJulius for an extended period this game - which can build resentment quickly. It's one thing to bench the one guy who isn't giving effort, but again, what do you do when no one is. Huggins would have put the walk-ons in the game, but Brannen doesn't seem up for that.

This game gave me serious concerns not just for this season, but for our future. As others have pointed out, we have no one recruited for next season. I know Brannen uses Covid as an excuse, but Covid didn't stop Luke Fickell from filling every football scholarship during early signing.

It is hard to find guys to play center who are going to be good year one. Even transfers aren't a sure thing. Our center position looks bad this year, but may be even worse next year if Diarra doesn't return.

Not a lot of positives to take from the game. This team looks like it's probably our worst in at least 10-15 years and the worst defensive team in my memory. Eason was a bright spot, but that's about it. We also managed to throw off USF's rhythm for a bit with the press.

Even though the final score was close, it was another game where it never really felt like we would win. USF got the lead and kept it, every time we'd get close or tie it up they had an answer.

My expectations were low for this year, but this team looks to be even worse than I expected. If we lose to Georgia, that is probably the end of any hope to make the NCAA tournament outside of a miracle beating Houston to win the AAC tournament.

Even in the Cronin rebuild years, at least we had guys who were tough, brought intensity and effort. This team looks soft and seems to not particularly care about defense. Brannen can coach defense all he likes, first he needs to do something to change the entire mental makeup of the team.

There is definitely reason to be concerned but I still think it’s way too early to be really concerned. It’s been a weird couple seasons. I am concerned about this years recruiting class. We need more guys. We have pieces, good pieces but we need more. Like you said, it can’t be a multi year rebuild. We need big bodies, that is clear. Whether it’s juco, transfers, or whatever, we can’t count on vogts and rap forever. Get a big scorer, and a big athletic guy. Have options, they don’t have to be complete players but we need to be able to put a player in the game that will help or change it up. Vogt and rap are the same. So when you put one in, it’s not helping

 

[cincyguy13]

As far as cronin goes, not trying to start that debate again but I’m not sure he could do much with last years team if jarron was hurt or this years team. We didn’t have much in the pipeline. Yes, we would probably win more games and get a 10ish seed and lose again, but to me, we are trying to get past that. To me the debate isn’t cronin to brannen, it’s continuing to do the same thing that we have for 20 years or trying something new, knowing there a chance it might not work. Also a chance it might.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

As far as cronin goes, not trying to start that debate again but I’m not sure he could do much with last years team if jarron was hurt or this years team. We didn’t have much in the pipeline. Yes, we would probably win more games and get a 10ish seed and lose again, but to me, we are trying to get past that. To me the debate isn’t cronin to brannen, it’s continuing to do the same thing that we have for 20 years or trying something new, knowing there a chance it might not work. Also a chance it might.

Correct. We were staring at an eliel. Trevor moore and Logan Johnson era.

We suck. John better figure out that top 25 programs need a different level athlete. But he gets his 4 years to show me something great.

 

[cincyguy13]

Correct. We were staring at an eliel. Trevor moore and Logan Johnson era.

We suck. John better figure out that top 25 programs need a different level athlete. But he gets his 4 years to show me something great.

I wouldn’t want a complete 4 year rebuild. To me, this year can be a wash. It’s a weird year anyway. Lot of new guys. Most of the teams look like crap anyway. Next year, I would like to see a good jump. No cronin guys left. Most 1-2 years in the program. At least an NIT or bubble team next year. Maybe 4 years to get it completely going but that’s a long time

 

[cincyguy13]

Correct. We were staring at an eliel. Trevor moore and Logan Johnson era.

We suck. John better figure out that top 25 programs need a different level athlete. But he gets his 4 years to show me something great.

I just want him to try different things. Go super small and press. See what happens. Play Saunders and DD together. Why not? Don’t continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. We’ve seen Vogt struggle in pick and roll for 2 years. Try something else. 2-3 zone. Whatever.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

I wouldn’t want a complete 4 year rebuild. To me, this year can be a wash. It’s a weird year anyway. Lot of new guys. Most of the teams look like crap anyway. Next year, I would like to see a good jump. No cronin guys left. Most 1-2 years in the program. At least an NIT or bubble team next year. Maybe 4 years to get it completely going but that’s a long time

Agree... Sorta. 4 hrs since hire. He's on yr two.

I have no interest in being an NIT team. I expect NCAA teams yearly.... With runs spinkled in. Next yr we have a major big issue. So John better find something.

 

[justinhub2003]

I don’t mind a rebuild if it means more success in March. Never really got excited about just getting there. If you did, great. So if we have to have a down year or two, to achieve that, I’m willing to try. We will see if it actually pays off.

But what about this style says we will win in much?

Not being a smart ass. Just asking

 

[justinhub2003]

I think this fan base is fragile.

I’m not sure how many rebuilding years it can handle. I hate watching my team lose in person especially at home.

So unless something really changes from now til the start of the season, I’ll be giving up my season tickets. I’ll be a fan, but I don’t want to spend money on product that doesn’t protect home court.

I think if this season and next are as bad as they look like they will be, it’s gonna create some real apathy in the fan base

 

[Loser Mentality]

On of the worst performances I've seen in a long time hands down.

We are 2-3 so I wont start crying like most.

1. Keith is trying to do too too much, and I think it's because he knows what he is surrounded around that doesn't allow him to flow, but rather play with too much stress.

2. I would be fine never seeing Vogt and Rap get any more minutes this season. These guys are not AAC caliber players. That's why we never recruited them.
They are Sooooooooooooft!

3. Start running the offense through Tari, which may finish with Keith scoring. The same post opportunities given to Vogt needs to be given to Tari.

4. Press and run period!

5. As fans we can not be foolish enough to omit that the AAC basketball has and now is built to beat 1 team only. Cincinnati.

 

[skyblade]

I wouldn’t want a complete 4 year rebuild. To me, this year can be a wash. It’s a weird year anyway. Lot of new guys. Most of the teams look like crap anyway. Next year, I would like to see a good jump. No cronin guys left. Most 1-2 years in the program. At least an NIT or bubble team next year. Maybe 4 years to get it completely going but that’s a long time

I've said this year I am okay as long as we finish over .500 and show some progress. Next year I expect to make the NCAA tournament at minimum. A one year rebuild is okay (not counting last year as a rebuild), but if we don't look good next year I will be calling for Brannen to be fired and I doubt I'd be the only one.

It's easy to say your willing to miss the NCAA tournament some years in the hopes of making runs other years (something I don't really subscribe to), but to actually live through the years of missing - with no promises of runs in the future - would turn a lot of fans off Brannen fast.

 

[skyblade]

On of the worst performances I've seen in a long time hands down.

We are 2-3 so I wont start crying like most.

1. Keith is trying to do too too much, and I think it's because he knows what he is surrounded around that doesn't allow him to flow, but rather play with too much stress.

2. I would be fine never seeing Vogt and Rap get any more minutes this season. These guys are not AAC caliber players. That's why we never recruited them.
They are Sooooooooooooft!

3. Start running the offense through Tari, which may finish with Keith scoring. The same post opportunities given to Vogt needs to be given to Tari.

4. Press and run period!

5. As fans we can not be foolish enough to omit that the AAC basketball has and now is built to beat 1 team only. Cincinnati.

1. Keith definitely isn't finding his fit in the offense so far. His most success was when we just started playing iso-ball.

2. Agreed.

3. I'd be fine with Tari starting at the 5 and Davenport at the 4. Vogt/Rap would have to give some minutes as backup 5, but not too many.

4. Why not try it? We had the most success last night pressing. Brannen said players started to get tired. He has talked about 94 feet for 40 minutes, if players get tired they either get taken out or get in better condition.

5. Many of the AAC teams are not just built to beat UC, they are built in UC's (under Cronin) image. Houston, USF, UCF and so on are built to play tough defense, rebound like crazy and maybe score some points.

 

[cincyalum2014]

Like I said before I’d be fine putting Eason at 5 and play small, yes we will give up rebounds but we are already giving up rebounds with Vogt and Rap In the game... whatever Vogt brings on offense doesn’t outweigh his lack of defense or rebounding and Rap is the biggest grad transfer miss I have ever seen, it just shows that these guys who play in these crappy small conferences and light it up are in those conferences for a reason

 

[cincyguy13]

But what about this style says we will win in much?

Not being a smart ass. Just asking

What style is it exactly? You realize there are more ways to win than the cronin grind it out style, right? I think more teams have won by being balanced and able to score than being just defense/grind it out. Virginia is really the only team to win with that style. Really hard to judge his style with Vogts and stuff running around. I doubt Vogt is his ideal 5.

 

[Loser Mentality]

whatever Vogt brings on offense doesn’t outweigh his lack of defense or rebounding and Rap is the biggest grad transfer miss I have ever seen, it just shows that these guys who play in these crappy small conferences and light it up are in those conferences for a reason

Facts!!!

Which brings the question... Does Brannen not like tough athletic guys?

The Bigs that transferred year 1 of Brannen are having their impact in season 2.

There is nobody on this roster now that is willing to scrap for the "W" outside of Keith (physicality) maybe Tari, but we have to keep him engaged.

Davenport has an edge, but it needs to be geared more to rebounding.

 

[cincyguy13]

But what about this style says we will win in much?

Not being a smart ass. Just asking

If you are talking about an offensive style, I would say a lot of programs have been successful. His best friends at Dayton last year and Chris Mack have had a lot of success. I would say that is the best comparison of what he’s going for. North Carolina and Roy Williams have a couple national championships playing more offensive style. I understand they aren’t exact comparisons but there are other ways to wins.

 

[cincyguy13]

Facts!!!

Which brings the question... Does Brannen not like tough athletic guys?

The Bigs that transferred year 1 of Brannen are having their impact in season 2.

There is nobody on this roster now that is willing to scrap for the "W" outside of Keith (physicality) maybe Tari, but we have to keep him engaged.

Davenport has an edge, but it needs to be geared more to rebounding.

The guy he tried to recruit over the summer was an athletic big. Chose Florida state. It’s not like he has no idea he needs guy that can move a little bit.

 

[justinhub2003]

What style is it exactly? You realize there are more ways to win than the cronin grind it out style, right? I think more teams have won by being balanced and able to score than being just defense/grind it out. Virginia is really the only team to win with that style. Really hard to judge his style with Vogts and stuff running around. I doubt Vogt is his ideal 5.

Im referring to the style of basketball where your defense makes bad offenses look like the 96 bulls.

Thats the style that concerns me.