Xavier

[UCBearcats]

We could barely even force Morgan State into mistakes. After those first 4 or 5 cupcakes, we cannot turnover anyone. Big reason why the defense (that is designed to force turnovers) has struggled.

I doubt we'll see a similar effort to what we saw against Morgan State. You can talk all you want about treating every game like it's March but players will naturally play down to their opponent to some extent. I was at that game, Morgan State was awful. Our players could have rolled out of bed and beaten that team by 15 and they knew it. The funny thing is that everyone is complaining about our performance in that game and we still hung 87 on them.

We can score so can X, put the ball in the hoop more times than they do and we win. I think FT's will be huge on Saturday, we all know this game will be called tight. My hope is that our guys don't settle for tough outside shots and instead fill up the paint where the fouls will be easier to get. One thing Mick has always been is a good game planner, hopefully he embraces our ability to score and finds new ways to get his team to play "tough".

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

One game never defines a season..for any team. However, I want to beat the crap out of X. It seems Mick is really downplaying this game which is what Huggs used to do while X plays it up. No coincidence X almost always seems ready while UC always seems slow out of the gate.[/QUOTE I see your point in that one game is not the end of the season. But you can't continue to lose (11 out of the last 15) and still own the city. Getting back to beating X on a regular basis is big for this program.

 

[justinhub2003]

Hold Up.

Everyone is acting like UC's defense is just bad. Were not. Not even a little. This team is just as capable of playing shut down defense as last year.

I think they learned a valuable lesson against butler; While yes UC can now score a lot of points, It still needs to win games the Bearcat way of playing defense first .

Its not that UC had flaws and thats why Butler scored 50 in the second half, it was the mindset of trying to out score them rather than stop them from scoring. They wanted to score the ball more than they wanted to play D.

UC is a Defensive team. They play great fundamental Defense but againt Butler they got frustrated from all the whackass fouls the refs were calling and it caused them to be soft on D. They made the mistake of just trying to score points since the buckets were coming so easy.

I Cronin think is right about some stuff he said; he said everyone has answer and that its that UC should learn to score the ball more and shoot better. And they certianly are better but we tried that method and we lost. If we played bearcat basketball we win.

And I dont even think that UC needs to force a bunch of turnovers to be successful on Defense. Last year, we forced Xavier's season high in turnovers up to that point and we still lost. We need to play tight D where every single shot is contested. Frustrate them. They have had more open looks this year than I've ever seen a team been give and they dont miss when there open. Limit the possession, shorten the shot clock, and dont give open looks. UC could win and only force 5 TO's if they played like that.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Hold Up.

Everyone is acting like UC's defense is just bad. Were not. Not even a little. This team is just as capable of playing shut down defense as last year.

I think they learned a valuable lesson against butler; While yes UC can now score a lot of points, It still needs to win games the Bearcat way of playing defense first .

Its not that UC had flaws and thats why Butler scored 50 in the second half, it was the mindset of trying to out score them rather than stop them from scoring. They wanted to score the ball more than they wanted to play D.

UC is a Defensive team. They play great fundamental Defense but againt Butler they got frustrated from all the whackass fouls the refs were calling and it caused them to be soft on D. They made the mistake of just trying to score points since the buckets were coming so easy.

I Cronin think is right about some stuff he said; he said everyone has answer and that its that UC should learn to score the ball more and shoot better. And they certianly are better but we tried that method and we lost. If we played bearcat basketball we win.

And I dont even think that UC needs to force a bunch of turnovers to be successful on Defense. Last year, we forced Xavier's season high in turnovers up to that point and we still lost. We need to play tight D where every single shot is contested. Frustrate them. They have had more open looks this year than I've ever seen a team been give and they dont miss when there open. Limit the possession, shorten the shot clock, and dont give open looks. UC could win and only force 5 TO's if they played like that.

When did he say that?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Hold Up.

Everyone is acting like UC's defense is just bad. Were not. Not even a little. This team is just as capable of playing shut down defense as last year.

I think they learned a valuable lesson against butler; While yes UC can now score a lot of points, It still needs to win games the Bearcat way of playing defense first .

Its not that UC had flaws and thats why Butler scored 50 in the second half, it was the mindset of trying to out score them rather than stop them from scoring. They wanted to score the ball more than they wanted to play D.

UC is a Defensive team. They play great fundamental Defense but againt Butler they got frustrated from all the whackass fouls the refs were calling and it caused them to be soft on D. They made the mistake of just trying to score points since the buckets were coming so easy.

I Cronin think is right about some stuff he said; he said everyone has answer and that its that UC should learn to score the ball more and shoot better. And they certianly are better but we tried that method and we lost. If we played bearcat basketball we win.

And I dont even think that UC needs to force a bunch of turnovers to be successful on Defense. Last year, we forced Xavier's season high in turnovers up to that point and we still lost. We need to play tight D where every single shot is contested. Frustrate them. They have had more open looks this year than I've ever seen a team been give and they dont miss when there open. Limit the possession, shorten the shot clock, and dont give open looks. UC could win and only force 5 TO's if they played like that.

That's not the style we play anymore. We tried it for years...only gets you so far. Our players are better suited to score the required amount of points to win these kind of games when we emphasize being quicker in transition from defense to offense. Limiting possessions is something you can only achieve when committed to it in all aspects.

I agree our defense can still be very solid. It's all about efficiency though. Mick said himself that we won't be Top 10 in the country in PPG allowed. So the first to 50, limited possession stuff is out.

 

[UCBearcats]

Hold Up.

Everyone is acting like UC's defense is just bad. Were not. Not even a little. This team is just as capable of playing shut down defense as last year.

I think they learned a valuable lesson against butler; While yes UC can now score a lot of points, It still needs to win games the Bearcat way of playing defense first .

Its not that UC had flaws and thats why Butler scored 50 in the second half, it was the mindset of trying to out score them rather than stop them from scoring. They wanted to score the ball more than they wanted to play D.

UC is a Defensive team. They play great fundamental Defense but againt Butler they got frustrated from all the whackass fouls the refs were calling and it caused them to be soft on D. They made the mistake of just trying to score points since the buckets were coming so easy.

I Cronin think is right about some stuff he said; he said everyone has answer and that its that UC should learn to score the ball more and shoot better. And they certianly are better but we tried that method and we lost. If we played bearcat basketball we win.

And I dont even think that UC needs to force a bunch of turnovers to be successful on Defense. Last year, we forced Xavier's season high in turnovers up to that point and we still lost. We need to play tight D where every single shot is contested. Frustrate them. They have had more open looks this year than I've ever seen a team been give and they dont miss when there open. Limit the possession, shorten the shot clock, and dont give open looks. UC could win and only force 5 TO's if they played like that.

I'd rather we keep the offensive mindset we've started the season with and try to figure out the defense as we go through the season. I really hope the days of games in the 50's are over for good. Bottom line is this Xavier team can score and we're going to need to as well. I couldn't disagree more with your take that because we tried the offensive method and lost we should abandon it. It was one game against a very good team and we lost by 2 points........be patient with our new style of basketball. We're 7-1 and ranked in the Top 25 and it's much more enjoyable as a fan to watch this team play than in years past.

 

[L-T]

Hold Up.

Everyone is acting like UC's defense is just bad. Were not. Not even a little. This team is just as capable of playing shut down defense as last year.

I think they learned a valuable lesson against butler; While yes UC can now score a lot of points, It still needs to win games the Bearcat way of playing defense first .

Its not that UC had flaws and thats why Butler scored 50 in the second half, it was the mindset of trying to out score them rather than stop them from scoring. They wanted to score the ball more than they wanted to play D.

UC is a Defensive team. They play great fundamental Defense but againt Butler they got frustrated from all the whackass fouls the refs were calling and it caused them to be soft on D. They made the mistake of just trying to score points since the buckets were coming so easy.

I Cronin think is right about some stuff he said; he said everyone has answer and that its that UC should learn to score the ball more and shoot better. And they certianly are better but we tried that method and we lost. If we played bearcat basketball we win.

And I dont even think that UC needs to force a bunch of turnovers to be successful on Defense. Last year, we forced Xavier's season high in turnovers up to that point and we still lost. We need to play tight D where every single shot is contested. Frustrate them. They have had more open looks this year than I've ever seen a team been give and they dont miss when there open. Limit the possession, shorten the shot clock, and dont give open looks. UC could win and only force 5 TO's if they played like that.

We only became a defensive team because he didn't recruit anyone who could play offense. The more we have this perception of being defense first, the more great offensive players will not even consider us. The more we play defense only, the more we will continue to exit in the 1st & 2nd round in March. This is about raising the bar and not accepting the mediocrity that has recently defined our program. Mick is on the right track by putting emphasis on offense, and boom.....we got some quick respect in the rankings as a result. Let's not drop the bar back down. Continuous improvement is the goal. We're already starting to get better recruits. Let's keep the momentum going.

 

[justinhub2003]

Cronin has been saying in post game interviews after butler loss, the radio show and media availability before practice. He says every one has a solution and it's all about offense but if we play D, take care of the ball and rebound, we win.

We were defense first because we couldn't score. But I dunno why we can't be defensive first and score on the offensive end.


If the new system is allow 50 points in a half, then it's a failure. If we think we're gonna out score Xavier then we're nuts. We have shooters but we are not yet a team where our offense is better than our defense

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Cronin has been saying in post game interviews after butler loss, the radio show and media availability before practice. He says every one has a solution and it's all about offense but if we play D, take care of the ball and rebound, we win.

We were defense first because we couldn't score. But I dunno why we can't be defensive first and score on the offensive end.


If the new system is allow 50 points in a half, then it's a failure. If we think we're gonna out score Xavier then we're nuts. We have shooters but we are not yet a team where our offense is better than our defense

I heard him say that after Butler but not really anywhere else. And I didn't get the impression that he meant we were going back to our old, slow style of play. We have to score to beat Xavier. We score more easily when we transition quickly. In order to play a limited possession game, we'd have to go back to the old way of walking it up the floor and running the shot clock down. That doesn't work for us. Going the SE Louisiana route against us is never going to take you anywhere. Our defense is a work in progress, but we can get there. No need to panic and scrap the tempo out of fear of giving up too many points. The season is still young. Mick changed things up bc he saw first hand that what we were doing won't get you past a Kentucky. So no reason to take a detour in Game 10 to try to scrap out a single game. It is all about how we're playing in March. If we get scared, play like we're inferior, and take the air out of the ball, how does that help us the next time we have big game? Look at other elite teams... KU lost 79-73 against Michigan State. Bill Self was pissed just like Mick was after Butler...but do you think their next big game they are going to be afraid to go out and let the players play? No chance. If Xavier wins and scores 80, that sucks...but it just means we need to continue to evolve and find the right balance. One thing we know for sure is that the defense only and slow game balance doesn't work for us. Gotta continue to look at the big picture. I agree with you 100% about defense, rebounding and toughness, but we cannot sacrifice our offense in order to achieve those things. Trust the process.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think the message that Coach is trying to get across to the team is scoring points is not a substitute for guarding. I have know info as to what Mick is saying behind closed doors to the team but I would guess it is something Like, if we don't guard X will run us out of the gym. I like a fast paced, uptempo style but it can not be at the expense of playing good defense. Many good coaches will tell you if you don't guard you don't play. Everyone likes to shoot the ball. It's been that way since I was a kid and I'm old. It takes discipline and effort to play defense. Our rebounding,ball security and defense have not been what we are used to seeing from the Cats. Time to get back to playing sound defense and add that to our improved offense. We will not take the next step without playing on both ends of the floor.

 

[justinhub2003]

When did he say that?

This is where he said it first but said again and again a lot since the loss

https://youtu.be/zqBKH0UQdk0?t=3m39s

 

[justinhub2003]

I think the message that Coach is trying to get across to the team is scoring points is not a substitute for guarding. I have know info as to what Mick is saying behind closed doors to the team but I would guess it is something Like, if we don't guard X will run us out of the gym. I like a fast paced, uptempo style but it can not be at the expense of playing good defense. Many good coaches will tell you if you don't guard you don't play. Everyone likes to shoot the ball. It's been that way since I was a kid and I'm old. It takes discipline and effort to play defense. Our rebounding,ball security and defense have not been what we are used to seeing from the Cats. Time to get back to playing sound defense and add that to our improved offense. We will not take the next step without playing on both ends of the floor.

And this is my point. Im not saying we should be the exact team from last year. But we also can't be who Xavier was last year when they literally scored a ton and played zero D.

Xavier is where they are right now because of the Defense. Look at the numbers; Kenpom has Xavier ranked one spot higher than UC in Defensive efficiency. Xavier is not shooting better than UC this year, in fact we lead in most offensive stats minus free throw shooting. And yet everyone is talking about Xavier. They are undefeated and we aren't. They changed there focus from Offense first to Defense first and score like they always had.

My point is that we need to make defense our #1 priority because how deadly would we be if we can stop teams from scoring and put up big numbers on the offensive end.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

And this is my point. Im not saying we should be the exact team from last year. But we also can't be who Xavier was last year when they literally scored a ton and played zero D.

Xavier is where they are right now because of the Defense. Look at the numbers; Kenpom has Xavier ranked one spot higher than UC in Defensive efficiency. Xavier is not shooting better than UC this year, in fact we lead in most offensive stats minus free throw shooting. And yet everyone is talking about Xavier. They are undefeated and we aren't. They changed there focus from Offense first to Defense first and score like they always had.

My point is that we need to make defense our #1 priority because how deadly would we be if we can stop teams from scoring and put up big numbers on the offensive end.

I get what you're saying, and I agree we don't want the offense to take a hit. But you've mentioned limiting possessions...that's not an option. We simply won't put up the points needed by doing that. We have to learn to play defense at this year's pace. It can still be a staple, but it will have to be out of efficiency, rather than the raw point total. Otherwise our offense takes a hit.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

This is where he said it first but said again and again a lot since the loss

https://youtu.be/zqBKH0UQdk0?t=3m39s

Yes definitely heard this. I guess I just didn't take it to mean the same thing.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

And this is my point. Im not saying we should be the exact team from last year. But we also can't be who Xavier was last year when they literally scored a ton and played zero D.

Xavier is where they are right now because of the Defense. Look at the numbers; Kenpom has Xavier ranked one spot higher than UC in Defensive efficiency. Xavier is not shooting better than UC this year, in fact we lead in most offensive stats minus free throw shooting. And yet everyone is talking about Xavier. They are undefeated and we aren't. They changed there focus from Offense first to Defense first and score like they always had.

My point is that we need to make defense our #1 priority because how deadly would we be if we can stop teams from scoring and put up big numbers on the offensive end.

i think it is obvious that in changing our offense our defensive preparation and execution have suffered. The challenge for team is to continue to develope offensively while getting back to our level of defense. Don't know many teams who have been successful as a team by not being able to play both ends of the floor. You will never win a championship by playing one over the other.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I get what you're saying, and I agree we don't want the offense to take a hit. But you've mentioned limiting possessions...that's not an option. We simply won't put up the points needed by doing that. We have to learn to play defense at this year's pace. It can still be a staple, but it will have to be out of efficiency, rather than the raw point total. Otherwise our offense takes a hit.

Jacob I agree with you to a certain degree. You can be a efficient offense and still not race up and down the floor. It may not be as entertaining but it can be effective.

 

[TheLongHaul]

The offense has had about zero to do with the defense. Their defense hasn't been giving up points because they are run & gun. They have been giving up way too many open looks from 3 and allowing too much penetration in their half-court defense which has nothing to do with their "new" offense. Hell, I'm not even sure what's new about their offense, they just play a little quicker.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jacob I agree with you to a certain degree. You can be a efficient offense and still not race up and down the floor. It may not be as entertaining but it can be effective.

It can be. But typically I think you'd have to be a big 3 point shooting team to maintain good enough offensive efficiency at a slow pace.

Really our defense has been fine most of the year. The 2nd half of the last 2 games are obviously the biggest exceptions. But I believe before Butler, our opponents were something like 344 out of 351 in length of possession...and our overall tempo is up 92 spots from last year. That's a good balance. And we are still actually 0.7 pts better this year than last year in AdjD.

 

[justinhub2003]

Yes definitely heard this. I guess I just didn't take it to mean the same thing.

I guess that comment coupled with his comments after the morgan state game where he mentioned that if you asked any player on the teams role was, they'd all say offense. Meaning Mick too believes his team is all offensive minded and not enough toughness and defense and he built this program back from the dead on Defense. I mean, I remember in kilpatrick interviews, they'd ask him whats the strategy to win, and he always always said defense and toughness.

Mick is frustrated at his team belief that they can just out score opponents instead of out playing them on the defensive end

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I guess that comment coupled with his comments after the morgan state game where he mentioned that if you asked any player on the teams role was, they'd all say offense. Meaning Mick too believes his team is all offensive minded and not enough toughness and defense and he built this program back from the dead on Defense. I mean, I remember in kilpatrick interviews, they'd ask him whats the strategy to win, and he always always said defense and toughness.

Mick is frustrated at his team belief that they can just out score opponents instead of out playing them on the defensive end

Yeah we have to be mature enough of a team to handle an open offense and still do the little things. That's for sure.

SK is a good example bc scoring is so second nature to him. That's where our guys gotta be...where it is just a given and we are still hungry on the defensive end.