Xavier

[JackBauer151]

Jack, the time frame in my original post was the past 15-16 years not the last 5. The past 50-100 years no comparison. The last 15-16 ...... Look and compare the numbers. I believe XU has been to 2 Elite 8's during that time. Lucky or not it happened. I'm not trying to stir up anything, believe me I hate XU, but facts are facts.

Well what facts are you talking about specifically? If you are talking about over the last 15 years 5 of which we put ourselves in the death penalty and had to rebuild Im just curious which facts you are talking about. Just off the top of my head over that time we have had 3 first team all americans, multiple nba draft picks (Number one overall), A number one seed in the NCAA, multiple 5 star recruits, were invited to the best basketball conference of its time, and I'll have to dig into some more details but I know Xavier cant match many of those. They are not a better program than us. Facts are facts.

 

[cincrulz11]

Jack bringing the heat!

 

[rogerOH]

We lost the game because our senior played 20 minutes 0 points / 1 reb. If he has a mediocre game we win. Coaching wasn't good either.

 

[waterhead]

Believe me, nothing gets my blood flowing like UC basketball but think objectively here regarding Dayton:

Better conference (A10's RPI is higher)
Less competition/more support (yes-higher attendance)
Better arena (yes-always chosen to host tourneys)
Plus they got Archie...

Interesting metrics you picked out there


Which "program" are you going to put your money on to get back in the top 10 the soonest and the most in the future? Which program will make the dance the most often in your opinion?

THAT is the better program!! If your answer is UD...that's your opinion. I would disagree.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I agree with Jack, as I said earlier you can't argue head to head who has been better, but a better program? Nah!

 

[indydoug]

Ok. Ralph you obviously don't understand perameters. Again I was just saying over that last 15 years and the facts bear it out . XU leads UC in tourney appearances 12-9 , S16 3-2 , E8 2-0 and tourney record 15-12 vs. 8-9. And when these 2 schools are recruiting teenagers which time frame do you think is more relevant to them? We don't have to like it but under the given perameters it's likely true. Historically it's not even close. UC is clearly better.

 

[Bulldog01]

These are where these numbers are bogus. You tell me a guy that shoots 3-11 was effective? Let's compare stat lines:

TC - 9 points 3-5 (1-3 from three)
Cobb - 9 points 3-11 (3-10 from three) He was agressive? He shot jumpers all night!

TC - 6 rebounds
Cobb - 3 rebounds

TC - 2-2 ft's
Cobb - 0-0

TC - 4 assist
Cobb - 2 assist

TC - 2 steals
Cobb - 0 steals

TC - 1 PF
Cobb - 3 PF

Neither guy had a turnover.

On the season Troy shoots .469/Cobb .374
3 pt. % Troy shoots .407/Cobb .331
PPG Troy 9.9/Cobb 8.0 - And here's the intersting part. In spite of Troy playing more minutes Cobb has taken 10 more shots so don't use the "Troy plays more argument"
Ft line Troy .829/Cobb .813
Assist to turnovers Troy 3.4-2.2/Cobb 1.4-1.0
RPG Troy 3.5/Cobb 2.5
SPG Troy 1.3/Cobb .9

Troy clearly the more efficient player in every way so let's stop any Cobb should start over TC talk. If you want to argue they belong on the floor together I'm with you. Bottom line, play them together, that's when the offense flows at it's best. But let's put this argument to rest. In game numbers don't lie.

team as a whole plays better by numbers with cobb in game

 

[bearcat jeff]

team as a whole plays better by numbers with cobb in game

The two should play together, if anything other than that is your argument then you simply ignore all facts and reason. There is not one category where TC is not superior to Cobb.

 

[Bulldog01]

I think it's relevant when he's coming into our home state and getting the talent. All of these guys rank higher than any current recruit on our roster:

Juwan Staten, Dayton (4 Star-#49 Rivals)
Devin Williams, Cincinnati (4 star-#64 Rivals)
Elijah Macon, Columbus (4 Star-#56 Rivals)
Esa Ahmad, Cleveland (4 Star-#71 Rivals)

I got killed other day for saying Mick need recruit Ohio over new york. Williams is withrow product no way you don't get him

 

[bearcat jeff]

Ok. Ralph you obviously don't understand perameters. Again I was just saying over that last 15 years and the facts bear it out . XU leads UC in tourney appearances 12-9 , S16 3-2 , E8 2-0 and tourney record 15-12 vs. 8-9. And when these 2 schools are recruiting teenagers which time frame do you think is more relevant to them? We don't have to like it but under the given perameters it's likely true. Historically it's not even close. UC is clearly better.

Those numbers include the dark years following the Zimpher/Huggins debacle. I know you can't remove them But you can't ignore the effect it had on things either.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I got killed other day for saying Mick need recruit Ohio over new york. Williams is withrow product no way you don't get him

On this one we can agree Bulldog01. I really wanted Williams as well. There is a lot of talent in Ohio that OSU grabs or ends up out of state.

 

[Bulldog01]

The two should play together, if anything other than that is your argument thnn you simply ignore all facts and reason. There is not one category where TC is not superior to Cobb.

Your only one keep comparing Cobb to Caupain. Caupain starter playing more minutes he's held to higher sstandard

 

[bearcat jeff]

Your only one keep comparing Cobb to Caupain. Caupain starter playing more minutes he's held to higher sstandard

Cobb has taken more shots and you're the one who keeps lifting Cobb and dogging TC when it is beyond clear who is the better player.

 

[JackBauer151]

Ok. Ralph you obviously don't understand perameters. Again I was just saying over that last 15 years and the facts bear it out . XU leads UC in tourney appearances 12-9 , S16 3-2 , E8 2-0 and tourney record 15-12 vs. 8-9. And when these 2 schools are recruiting teenagers which time frame do you think is more relevant to them? We don't have to like it but under the given perameters it's likely true. Historically it's not even close. UC is clearly better.

If you are comparing two programs you have to look at the big picture. UC had to do a complete rebuild. Start from absolute scratch. And those are the numbers they lead by. I find that to be more embarrassing for Xavier. Also tournament success does not define a program. The tournament is an unpredictable animal. It's a single elimination tournament. Seeding, match ups, geography, injury (Sorry Kenyon), luck, and how hot a team is all play into the success and failure. UCONN was mediocre all last year. Got hot and went on to win it all. Wins, recruiting, NBA players, tournament appearances, conference, top 25 rankings, all americans, coaching, wins against top 25 teams, schedule, and more go into where your program is at. Over the last 15 years even with the 5 year death penalty we help our ground as a program. George Mason went to a final 4 but where are they now? Many more factors go into a program outside of the tournament.

 

[FTBearcats]

We lost the game because our senior played 20 minutes 0 points / 1 reb. If he has a mediocre game we win. Coaching wasn't good either.

Never have been a fan of Sanders, he is slow unathletic and seems like every shot he takes, he has a different shooting form. As a team you cannot count on him to have good games, senior or not. Would rather have guyn than him all day long.

 

[Bulldog01]

On this one we can agree Bulldog01. I really wanted Williams as well. There is a lot of talent in Ohio that OSU grabs or ends up out of state.

Mick think NY is meeca of basketball

 

[indydoug]

Agreed Jeff. But again what impresses kids? .....What have you done lately. Don't pull my UC card I'm just putting it out there for debate

 

[Bearcat Rob]

I spoke with a close friend of mine who was very successful for many years coaching at the HS level. The fact that Xavier is a better program than UC at this time is not even a question. What's interesting is that we both agreed that Dayton was a better program than UC.

Is that why xavier hasnt made the tournament basically the last two years? Is that why their program hasnt sniffed the top 25 since 2011 (4 years ago)!? Is that why we have ended the year ranked higher for at least the last five seasons? Head to head is a brief comparison...fans like that probly think xu was better than us last year to becuase they won, ridiculous.

 

[Bulldog01]

Cobb has taken more shots and you're the one who keeps lifting Cobb and dogging TC when it is beyond clear who is the better player.

Of course tc by far better. That's why I'm harder and expect more tc. Cobb has played up to level most of us expected. We all want more from tc not cobb

 

[indydoug]

Jack I couldn't agree more that what mick has done with the hand he was dealt is REMARKABLE. I also agree that Tournament success is not the only factor when defining a program but I do believe it's what kids look at. UC has done well the past 15 years but XU has done better albeit not having to face the challenges UC did during that time. Go Cats