Coaching changes

[ralph1950]

Seton Hall hires Willard. Auburn hires the guy from UTEP. St. John's has hired no one but did get turned down by the Georgia Tech guy. DePaul has hired no one.

More and more reason why UC should stick with Mick for a very, very, long time. What Mick has done in 4 short years has been really good, starting from scratch in the Big East. Mick does have UC on the cusp of being really good.

It seems highly doubtful UC would be able to hire away Tom Izzo from Mich. St., Coach K from Duke, Bill Self from Kansas, etc.

Maybe UC could attract the hotest mid-major coach, but I doubt he would be any better than Mick and such a hire would set UC's recruiting back another couple of years.

The fans who want UC to succeed should realize Mick is UC's best shot at success and get behind him 100% like I have.

 

[Thegreatone]

Seton Hall hires Willard. Auburn hires the guy from UTEP. St. John's has hired no one but did get turned down by the Georgia Tech guy. DePaul has hired no one.

More and more reason why UC should stick with Mick for a very, very, long time. What Mick has done in 4 short years has been really good, starting from scratch in the Big East. Mick does have UC on the cusp of being really good.

It seems highly doubtful UC would be able to hire away Tom Izzo from Mich. St., Coach K from Duke, Bill Self from Kansas, etc.

Maybe UC could attract the hotest mid-major coach, but I doubt he would be any better than Mick and such a hire would set UC's recruiting back another couple of years.
The fans who want UC to succeed should realize Mick is UC's best shot at success and get behind him 100% like I have.

If Mick lands Sampson, Teague, Davis or a combo of those recruits he wont go anywhere. If Teague commits Cronin will definately be our head coach until at least 2012

 

[adrock]

If Mick lands Sampson, Teague, Davis or a combo of those recruits he wont go anywhere. If Teague commits Cronin will definately be our head coach until at least 2012

Ah, but if our own fan base is calling for Mick's head at every turn, how does that affect the likelihood of these guys coming here? Would you go to a school whose coach's future is this uncertain?

 

[ucdave]

Ah, but if our own fan base is calling for Mick's head at every turn, how does that affect the likelihood of these guys coming here? Would you go to a school whose coach's future is this uncertain?

You make a good point Adrock. That is why we really need to get behind Mick 100% like Ralph says. If you can't do that, follow another team and stop posting on UC sites. It is that simple. Good post Ralph.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

You make a good point Adrock. That is why we really need to get behind Mick 100% like Ralph says. If you can't do that, follow another team and stop posting on UC sites. It is that simple. Good post Ralph.

I don't necessarily think we should get behind Cronin per se, but we should get behind the basketball program.

If we lose, he'll be gone. It's that simple. I think we have made gradual steps. Our talent continues to increase. That's my primary concern. We're starting to change the culture of our program with players such as Kilpatrick, Lance, Parker, Cash, Ibra, Justin Jackson, Kelvin Gaines, etc. I'd love for this to continue with players such as Ricardo Ratliffe and Deonte Burton.

Creating uncertainty and turmoil over the internet only leads to negativity surrounding the program that impacts our success in more ways than unhappy alumni and customers.

Kids read message boards and internet blogs, whether they admit it or not.

It's easy for a kid to search for his name and Cincinnati together. He'll be able to find BCL, BCN, BCT, etc.

People other than diehard UC fans read these boards.

 

[swg]

You commmit to the program, not the coach. Butler and X have gone through multiple coaching changes in recent years, and still do well. Most schools just don't usually handle it horribly like what was done with Huggins and especially Kennedy.

 

[adrock]

You commmit to the program, not the coach.

Are you referring to fans or players? If you're talking about players, I don't believe that to be the case at all. High-major level players in particular commit to a coach. If not, we wouldn't see so many players transferring and recruits changing their mind when a coach gets fired.

 

[ready2go]

You commmit to the program, not the coach. Butler and X have gone through multiple coaching changes in recent years, and still do well. Most schools just don't usually handle it horribly like what was done with Huggins and especially Kennedy.

Exactly!

You can throw Murray State in there too. Look what happened when Mick actually left there. Oh, they won an NCAA Tourny game. Point being, by losing Mick, recruiting would not be lost. There is no other rebuilding needed Ralph. Mick got us through the toughest part. Thanks Mick, but I'm willing to move on.

I'm sure playing in front of 2,000 in the NIT doesn't help in recruiting. Please get real about all the internet business. Tons of factors play into a players choice.

 

[swg]

It's a mistake for players to commit to certain coaches, not saying it doesn't happen. How many guys did UC lose this year from the coaching change from Kelly to Jones? I don't think Louisville or ND lost any players from the change as well.

Coaches come and go, get fired or look for more money. A kid who largely bases his decision on SOMEONE ELSE is setting themselves up for failure. I laugh at how kids talk about going to an SEC school for the education. Really?? What education would that be? When all's said and done, most kids don't go pro, or if they do, have a pretty short career. I know many base it on the coach, but that has to be one of many factors...certainly shouldn't be the main one. Those who do set themselves up for bouncing around (like Arthur and Bryce Brown, as if they didn't look foolish enough beforehand).

 

[anbuc88]

Ah, but if our own fan base is calling for Mick's head at every turn, how does that affect the likelihood of these guys coming here? Would you go to a school whose coach's future is this uncertain?

It's the vocal minority, not the majority, of the fan base that is calling for his head. That's why administrators and moderators of websites such as this should exercise their right to censor constant negativity. It's OK to be unhappy with the direction of the program, but this does not have to interjected into every thread. If this negativity is affecting recruits decisions, or if there is a hint that it may do so, then for the good of the program these posters should be weeded out. It's the same posters who hijack every thread and act like they speak for the majority.

 

[swg]

Frankly, I think people here at BCT have been fairly calm considering what UC fans had to go through in late Jan/Feb. The offense was at times atrocious, bordering on embarrassing..not to mention fairly easy to coach against. Calling for a coaching change when one is not apparent is foolish, as it seems fairly obvious that MC will get one more year (unless a move will be made shortly after the tourney is complete).
Unless that occurs, I believe most should resign themselves to accepting that fact and root for Mick until such time as they can't do that next year.
What other choice is there?

 

[ready2go]

It's the vocal minority, not the majority, of the fan base that is calling for his head. That's why administrators and moderators of websites such as this should exercise their right to censor constant negativity. It's OK to be unhappy with the direction of the program, but this does not have to interjected into every thread. If this negativity is affecting recruits decisions, or if there is a hint that it may do so, then for the good of the program these posters should be weeded out. It's the same posters who hijack every thread and act like they speak for the majority.

I'm sure we all share one common objective: The Direction of the Program! How about fan attendance being down? or Haven't seen the NCAA Tourny since 05'. Guys like Vaughn who at one point seemed to have an NBA career, have since evaporated. A "sure" one and done in Lance Stevenson, now sees himself coming back for a 2nd year (I hope). These are things that have been pointed out, but you don't think these recruits already see that?? Get Real.

TheLivingLegend said winning solves everything, that is the main problem here.

 

[adrock]

I'm sure we all share one common objective: The Direction of the Program!

I'm not so sure that's true. For the vast majority of us (I'm including you, btw, even though we don't often see eye to eye) that is true. We just want Bearcat basketball to be back on top where it belongs. It's hard to shake the feeling though that there is a small, yet loud contingent of "fans" that would prefer we lose in perpetuity just to prove their statements about how impossible it would be to win without Bob Huggins correct, and to stick it to the university that sent their favorite coach of all time (and the reason they became UC fans) packing. I personally know a couple of people that have admitted as much to me, and am pretty sure I could come up with a couple more on BCN if I had to guess.

 

[anbuc88]

I'm sure we all share one common objective: The Direction of the Program! How about fan attendance being down? or Haven't seen the NCAA Tourny since 05'. Guys like Vaughn who at one point seemed to have an NBA career, have since evaporated. A "sure" one and done in Lance Stevenson, now sees himself coming back for a 2nd year (I hope). These are things that have been pointed out, but you don't think these recruits already see that?? Get Real.

TheLivingLegend said winning solves everything, that is the main problem here.

And you think this is all due to poor coaching. Who said LS was a 'Sure' one and done? Do you think Cronin and the coaching staff caused him to shoot 20% from 3 point range? How about when he did not make the 17 and under USA basketball team? Was this the fault of that coaching staff. If Vaughn's NBA career seems to have evaporated, who gets credit for at one point getting him to that stage. The fallacy is for fans to contantly point to coaching as the primary reason for success or failure of a team. Rick Majerus on ESPN Sunday morning radio talk show 2 weeks ago said that any coach that thinks that coaching is the main reason that teams win is just fooling themselves. Players have to make plays, and talent trumps most everything. Coaching is definitely important, but is not the sole cause of teams failure. You want to Get Real, then Get Real about that.

 

[ralph1950]

I'm sure we all share one common objective: The Direction of the Program! How about fan attendance being down? or Haven't seen the NCAA Tourny since 05'. Guys like Vaughn who at one point seemed to have an NBA career, have since evaporated. A "sure" one and done in Lance Stevenson, now sees himself coming back for a 2nd year (I hope). These are things that have been pointed out, but you don't think these recruits already see that?? Get Real.

TheLivingLegend said winning solves everything, that is the main problem here.

As AD Mike Thomas said "the arrow is pointing in the right direction". Too bad the "fans" who do not attend games cannot see it. If UC fans were like Indiana fans and supported the team with their attendence no matter what, there would have already been an announced verbal to UC by a top 10 recruit in the 2011 high school class.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Unfortunately Ralph, this is still a very fractured fan base. It will not heal till one of two things happens. Mick Cronin puts an NCAA team on the floor that plays consistently or he is no longer the coach. He has failed to show he can bring a team together and raise it to a higher level. His teams do not play smart and they do not play consistently hard. When Mick Cronin's players buy into their coach the fan base will too. Players have to buy into a coach's game plan. I believe that Mick is better at X's and O's than he is given credit for, but he has not been able to get his players to follow him in the execution of it. I'm not trying to be critical, just stating what I believe to be a fact.

 

[ready2go]

Unfortunately Ralph, this is still a very fractured fan base. It will not heal till one of two things happens. Mick Cronin puts an NCAA team on the floor that plays consistently or he is no longer the coach. He has failed to show he can bring a team together and raise it to a higher level. His teams do not play smart and they do not play consistently hard. When Mick Cronin's players buy into their coach the fan base will too. Players have to buy into a coach's game plan. I believe that Mick is better at X's and O's than he is given credit for, but he has not been able to get his players to follow him in the execution of it. I'm not trying to be critical, just stating what I believe to be a fact.

These are my thoughts exactly!

Here's what I'd like to see:

1) Some resemblance of an Offense
-I wanted to see crisp passes. Passes with a purpose, not simply throwing between 2 guards outside the 3 point line
-It would be nice to see OPEN looks every once and a while as well. I feel a lot of shots taken are contested.
-Transition points; I want Willks on Top 10 every morning with a break away dunk.
2) Players get better with their tenure here
-I'm not talking about the one year guys yet, Lance, Cash, Thomas. Judgement is out on them until next year. I want to see better play from year to year.
-Vaughn has gotten worse, Dixon doesn't see the court anymore, Larry lost his J, Biggie is still a work in progress, and Gates! oh my Gates, I'm speechless.
3) Tempo
- I firmly believe if you have to adapt to the players on your team. We keep saying we are athletic, but not good basketball players. Then why not full court press, and run a little on offense. Not only will this help win games, but fans will come to watch that! Who wants to watch Boring basketball?? win or lose...

If Mick can get this done, I will jump on board, but I haven't seen it and until then I can't help but stick with my comments.

Go Cats!

 

[anbuc88]

Unfortunately Ralph, this is still a very fractured fan base. It will not heal till one of two things happens. Mick Cronin puts an NCAA team on the floor that plays consistently or he is no longer the coach. He has failed to show he can bring a team together and raise it to a higher level. His teams do not play smart and they do not play consistently hard. When Mick Cronin's players buy into their coach the fan base will too. Players have to buy into a coach's game plan. I believe that Mick is better at X's and O's than he is given credit for, but he has not been able to get his players to follow him in the execution of it. I'm not trying to be critical, just stating what I believe to be a fact.

I agree and I disagree. This fan base would have been best served if Bob Huggins had gone into Professional ball. As long as he does well or until he retires, our coach will be compared to his results at WVU. This will continue whether it is Cronin or someone else. A new coach MAY get a year or 2, but if he doesn't produce, the same uneducated fan base that is calling for Cronin's head will call for the next coaches head. What that faction of the fan base needs to be reminded off is that Cronin was a Huggins assistant, and the other 2 assistants (Martin and Kennedy) who have head coaching positions are doing damn well. Is just Mick who didn't didn't learn anything form Huggins? He also was an assistant under Pitino, and last I checked, his coaching tree has been incredibally successful. Is it Cronin who just didn't learn anything from Pitino? Coaching is not the issue. Getting players who can execute the game plan is. I don't think it's a question of getting the players to 'buy' into the game plan. But in this past years senior and junior classes, the talent and IQ to execute the game plan was lacking. These were filler classes and that is why we are seeing some of them being replaced with more talented players. As the talent level increases, the results on the court will be better. That why you HAVE to give him a full cycle of HIS players, and we will see our patience be rewarded. Undermining that with constant negativity and calling for his head is the one thing that will derail this process. Mick will be here as long as UC will have him, and it is incumbant for the educated fan base to get behind him and drown out the naysayers, in contrast to the current state of affairs.

 

[ralph1950]

Unfortunately Ralph, this is still a very fractured fan base. It will not heal till one of two things happens. Mick Cronin puts an NCAA team on the floor that plays consistently or he is no longer the coach. He has failed to show he can bring a team together and raise it to a higher level. His teams do not play smart and they do not play consistently hard. When Mick Cronin's players buy into their coach the fan base will too. Players have to buy into a coach's game plan. I believe that Mick is better at X's and O's than he is given credit for, but he has not been able to get his players to follow him in the execution of it. I'm not trying to be critical, just stating what I believe to be a fact.

Mick has not been able to recruit the guys he wants because of how bad shape the program was in when he took over. 75% of the guys on this years team are guys Mick had to settle for because he had to field a team.

As a well known national sportswriter commented, if the contingent of UC fans that want Mick fired get their way they will soon find out what it is like to be DePaul.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

I agree and I disagree. This fan base would have been best served if Bob Huggins had gone into Professional ball. As long as he does well or until he retires, our coach will be compared to his results at WVU. This will continue whether it is Cronin or someone else. A new coach MAY get a year or 2, but if he doesn't produce, the same uneducated fan base that is calling for Cronin's head will call for the next coaches head. What that faction of the fan base needs to be reminded off is that Cronin was a Huggins assistant, and the other 2 assistants (Martin and Kennedy) who have head coaching positions are doing damn well. Is just Mick who didn't didn't learn anything form Huggins? He also was an assistant under Pitino, and last I checked, his coaching tree has been incredibally successful. Is it Cronin who just didn't learn anything from Pitino? Coaching is not the issue. Getting players who can execute the game plan is. I don't think it's a question of getting the players to 'buy' into the game plan. But in this past years senior and junior classes, the talent and IQ to execute the game plan was lacking. These were filler classes and that is why we are seeing some of them being replaced with more talented players. As the talent level increases, the results on the court will be better. That why you HAVE to give him a full cycle of HIS players, and we will see our patience be rewarded. Undermining that with constant negativity and calling for his head is the one thing that will derail this process. Mick will be here as long as UC will have him, and it is incumbant for the educated fan base to get behind him and drown out the naysayers, in contrast to the current state of affairs.

Agreed 100%. Great post.