Crosstown Shootout Dec 6, 2020 Fifth Third Arena

[waterhead]

My issue is that I’m still not sure UC’s future is in better hands than it was.

I still have no idea what JB’s brand of basketball is. Because it’s not exciting to watch and it’s not defensive at all. I find it concerning that “all brannen practices is Defense” and yet that’s their worst attribute.


But all that said. I’ve cut both my fandom and financial donations in half. I was too invested in Uc basketball. It meant too much to me. And so in the Covid era I found new hobbies and I just don’t lose sleep over it any more (no joke, I used to). So uc basketball is back to being only fun. Its better for me mentally and financially. So you want catch me ruining threads. I’ll keep it between the lines. It’s just silly to care about basketball that much.

Plus we have 3 more games to right the wrongs of yesterday and move on. If we don’t then we don’t.

If they cancel the rest of the season to Covid, I’d be ok with that too.

okay good post. So we may or may not be in better hands than we used to be. That can happen. So we wait and see. The good thing is CJB has thought about all of this stuff while eating pancakes this morning. He's bounced it off other coaches etc. He's looked at notes from 5 years ago. He's poured over metrics etc. If he sucks it won't be because he didn't think it through.

 

[skyblade]

My biggest problem with Brannen is he says one thing, but seems to do another.

He talks about focusing on defense, he talks about emphasizing defense, but when it comes down to it anyone who starts Rap (or even recruits him to play) at the 4 and Vogt at the 5 doesn't actually care about defense.

It's not like it's a surprise. I said from the moment that Rap was signed that he has no business playing the 4 at this level. Vogt was bad defensively last year. Brannen can preach all he wants, but the players see who he chooses to play and if you are putting two bad defenders at the two most important defensive positions, it speaks volumes.

He preaches run-and-gun, but again Rap/Vogt starting goes against what he says he wants. He preaches and plays a motion offense, but that gets Vogt out of the one position he is effective on offense and still allows teams to clog the lane since Vogt isn't a threat from beyond 5 feet.

Offensively, Vogt looks set to have a bad year as well. Without three point shooters, teams can just clog the lane. Especially with Vogt down there it allows them to clog the lane and helps prevent both Vogt scoring and drives. Vogt needs three point shooters around him to be effective at what he does on offense. He's not a guy who is going to get many buckets on put backs.

Minus putting Eason or Diarra at the 5, the other option is running a zone with Vogt at the 5 (and Eason or Davenport at the 4). But Brannen showed last year he's not willing to play a zone, it's man-to-man all the way. Vogt is not a man-to-man defender, nor is Rap.

Rap thus far looks like he has no business playing at this level. I hate on Vogt, but at least Vogt can defend the interior and is elite scoring from 5 feet and in. Vogt shouldn't be a starter, but I could see him having a nice situational role. Rap is bad everywhere on defense and he takes a lot of bad shots on offense. Rap is more mobile than Vogt, but he has a long way to go in the mental game on defense and considering he's in his 6th year I doubt he's getting there before the end of the year.

I'm not over Brannen, but he hasn't impressed me up to this point. Still plenty of time to go though, hopefully we turn it around. As long as we finish over .500 in conference he deserves another season.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Your simply wrong on Rap. He's been a productive asset through 2 games

 

[cincyguy13]

My issue is that I’m still not sure UC’s future is in better hands than it was.

I still have no idea what JB’s brand of basketball is. Because it’s not exciting to watch and it’s not defensive at all. I find it concerning that “all brannen practices is Defense” and yet that’s their worst attribute.


But all that said. I’ve cut both my fandom and financial donations in half. I was too invested in Uc basketball. It meant too much to me. And so in the Covid era I found new hobbies and I just don’t lose sleep over it any more (no joke, I used to). So uc basketball is back to being only fun. Its better for me mentally and financially. So you want catch me ruining threads. I’ll keep it between the lines. It’s just silly to care about basketball that much.

Plus we have 3 more games to right the wrongs of yesterday and move on. If we don’t then we don’t.

If they cancel the rest of the season to Covid, I’d be ok with that too.

It doesn’t matter if we are in a better position than when mick left. The dude left. Had to move on. There is also no anyone could honestly know if the program is in a better position or not. The season got cut short last year and this year is chaos. If we make a run last year, he’s a great coach. We will never know.

Also, it’s not healthy to take it that serious. We all want them to win and like talking about it, even get mad when they lose, but letting it seriously effect your life is not healthy. In reality no ones life changes rather uc wins a national championship or never wins a game.

 

[cincyguy13]

Your simply wrong on Rap. He's been a productive asset through 2 games

I agree, what are people expecting? Dude been a solid player so far. Is he a 5 star, 1st round draft pick? No, if he was, he wouldn’t be here. The guys job is to come in, get a couple buckets, go sit down. So far he’s done that.

 

[cincyguy13]

My biggest problem with Brannen is he says one thing, but seems to do another.

He talks about focusing on defense, he talks about emphasizing defense, but when it comes down to it anyone who starts Rap (or even recruits him to play) at the 4 and Vogt at the 5 doesn't actually care about defense.

It's not like it's a surprise. I said from the moment that Rap was signed that he has no business playing the 4 at this level. Vogt was bad defensively last year. Brannen can preach all he wants, but the players see who he chooses to play and if you are putting two bad defenders at the two most important defensive positions, it speaks volumes.

He preaches run-and-gun, but again Rap/Vogt starting goes against what he says he wants. He preaches and plays a motion offense, but that gets Vogt out of the one position he is effective on offense and still allows teams to clog the lane since Vogt isn't a threat from beyond 5 feet.

Offensively, Vogt looks set to have a bad year as well. Without three point shooters, teams can just clog the lane. Especially with Vogt down there it allows them to clog the lane and helps prevent both Vogt scoring and drives. Vogt needs three point shooters around him to be effective at what he does on offense. He's not a guy who is going to get many buckets on put backs.

Minus putting Eason or Diarra at the 5, the other option is running a zone with Vogt at the 5 (and Eason or Davenport at the 4). But Brannen showed last year he's not willing to play a zone, it's man-to-man all the way. Vogt is not a man-to-man defender, nor is Rap.

Rap thus far looks like he has no business playing at this level. I hate on Vogt, but at least Vogt can defend the interior and is elite scoring from 5 feet and in. Vogt shouldn't be a starter, but I could see him having a nice situational role. Rap is bad everywhere on defense and he takes a lot of bad shots on offense. Rap is more mobile than Vogt, but he has a long way to go in the mental game on defense and considering he's in his 6th year I doubt he's getting there before the end of the year.

I'm not over Brannen, but he hasn't impressed me up to this point. Still plenty of time to go though, hopefully we turn it around. As long as we finish over .500 in conference he deserves another season.

All coaches say one thing and do another. How many years did mick say he was going to play uptempo. Think I heard that every year and he never did.

 

[skyblade]

All coaches say one thing and do another. How many years did mick say he was going to play uptempo. Think I heard that every year and he never did.

Absolutely Mick did as well, every year was the year we'd play up-tempo and every year he'd go back to his old ways in the first close game. But Mick as least practiced what he preached when is came to defense. He made it clear how he was going to play and built his team around it.

Play tough, defend and rebound. Some fans didn't like it, but he rarely recruited a guy who didn't fit that philosophy and when he did those guys struggled to play because he demanded defense.

In the press conference last night Brannen seem lost as to why his guys didn't play defense. Basically said that they practice majority defense.

Unlike Cronin, Brannen didn't recruit guys for defense (Rap and Vogt being the two prime examples) and doesn't pull them for playing bad defense. Maybe he's just saying it to make the media happy and sound like he is trying. But if he's actually trying to show the team he cares about defense, than he better practice what he preaches. Starting Rap and Vogt and expecting even average defense is laughable.

Center and PF are the two most important defensive positions in the game of basketball and Brannen starts two guys who would be bad on defense at the mid-major level.

Brannen's whole philosophy seems to be a no show at this point. Run-and-gun; not with Vogt/Rap. Motion offense with good 3-point shooters, hard with Vogt clogging the middle and a bunch of middling 3-point shooters. Tough straight up man-to-man defense - again not going to work with two big's who can't guard outside the paint.

I get that it takes a while to implement a style change, it's not going to happen overnight. But his recruiting and choice of whom he plays seems to go against what he says he wants to do.

 

[skyblade]

I agree, what are people expecting? Dude been a solid player so far. Is he a 5 star, 1st round draft pick? No, if he was, he wouldn’t be here. The guys job is to come in, get a couple buckets, go sit down. So far he’s done that.

I was expecting him to at least be a capable defender at the 5 and a better decision maker on offense. His defense has been horrible (like worse than Vogt bad) and his shooting/decision making on offense aren't particularly impressive.

I expected from the start that he'd have no business playing the 4. But I thought he'd be a reasonably mobile defender at the 5. Instead he's bad at interior defense, not much more mobile on the perimeter and seems to struggle more on defense mentally.

If he's anything more than a role player for the rest of the year, we probably have a problem.

 

[huggsforlife]

Absolutely Mick did as well, every year was the year we'd play up-tempo and every year he'd go back to his old ways in the first close game. But Mick as least practiced what he preached when is came to defense. He made it clear how he was going to play and built his team around it.

Play tough, defend and rebound. Some fans didn't like it, but he rarely recruited a guy who didn't fit that philosophy and when he did those guys struggled to play because he demanded defense.

In the press conference last night Brannen seem lost as to why his guys didn't play defense. Basically said that they practice majority defense.

Unlike Cronin, Brannen didn't recruit guys for defense (Rap and Vogt being the two prime examples) and doesn't pull them for playing bad defense. Maybe he's just saying it to make the media happy and sound like he is trying. But if he's actually trying to show the team he cares about defense, than he better practice what he preaches. Starting Rap and Vogt and expecting even average defense is laughable.

Center and PF are the two most important defensive positions in the game of basketball and Brannen starts two guys who would be bad on defense at the mid-major level.

Brannen's whole philosophy seems to be a no show at this point. Run-and-gun; not with Vogt/Rap. Motion offense with good 3-point shooters, hard with Vogt clogging the middle and a bunch of middling 3-point shooters. Tough straight up man-to-man defense - again not going to work with two big's who can't guard outside the paint.

I get that it takes a while to implement a style change, it's not going to happen overnight. But his recruiting and choice of whom he plays seems to go against what he says he wants to do.

Micks offense was absolutely painful but like it or not his teams won most close games because we had a
Great D and just enough offense. Never understood though how X
owned him either. I just knew Iin close games it would be in the night 50s or low 60s and frankly if game is close at the end you knew with jarron they’d find a way. I think we’re foolish to think brannen will have tj e same type of D. Let’s face it though, micks D are among the best in the country. Brannen will be fine. Everything I’ve heard is that he is brilliant on offense. I think we will be very good next year. This team is going.

 

[cincyguy13]

Micks offense was absolutely painful but like it or not his teams won most close games because we had a
Great D and just enough offense. Never understood though how X
owned him either. I just knew Iin close games it would be in the night 50s or low 60s and frankly if game is close at the end you knew with jarron they’d find a way. I think we’re foolish to think brannen will have tj e same type of D. Let’s face it though, micks D are among the best in the country. Brannen will be fine. Everything I’ve heard is that he is brilliant on offense. I think we will be very good next year. This team is going.

X owned mick because good teams score and don’t turn the ball over. When your whole system is built on deflections and grinding teams out, good teams don’t care. You have to be able to score. Defense is important to slow the other team down but you aren’t going to shut a good team down. Have to be able to score when needed. There is a balance, selling out all defense will get you a couple close regular season wins and mask the problem but long term, it isn’t really getting you anywhere you want to go.

 

[huggsforlife]

X owned mick because good teams score and don’t turn the ball over. When your whole system is built on deflections and grinding teams out, good teams don’t care. You have to be able to score. Defense is important to slow the other team down but you aren’t going to shut a good team down. Have to be able to score when needed. There is a balance, selling out all defense will get you a couple close regular season wins and mask the problem but long term, it isn’t really getting you anywhere you want to go.

I would agree with that except it worked against most other teams except X and the tourney. He just seemed to shrink in big games (or his teams did). I think you have to give coaches time with their players. Steele struggled his first two years and lets see how X really turns out this year. Dayton wanted to run their coach out of town and look what he did in his third year. I think year 3 is critical because that's usually two years of his recruits and can use his style of play.

 

[cincyguy13]

I would agree with that except it worked against most other teams except X and the tourney. He just seemed to shrink in big games (or his teams did). I think you have to give coaches time with their players. Steele struggled his first two years and lets see how X really turns out this year. Dayton wanted to run their coach out of town and look what he did in his third year. I think year 3 is critical because that's usually two years of his recruits and can use his style of play.

It worked for most teams that weren’t good. I think it works against average to below average teams but it doesn’t against better teams. They just don’t miss the shots or make the mistakes that you have to have in that system. Someone posted micks record against better teams around a year ago. It wasn’t good. The system does get a lot of meaningless wins and every once in a while you beat a good team and it makes it seems like it works. The truth is you can’t sell out either way. Offense or defense. Need a balance. Hopefully we get that with brannen. Time will tell.

 

[justinhub2003]

X owned mick because good teams score and don’t turn the ball over. When your whole system is built on deflections and grinding teams out, good teams don’t care. You have to be able to score. Defense is important to slow the other team down but you aren’t going to shut a good team down. Have to be able to score when needed. There is a balance, selling out all defense will get you a couple close regular season wins and mask the problem but long term, it isn’t really getting you anywhere you want to go.

What I’ve always wanted is elite defense with very good offense. There is a team in the AAC who embodies that and it’s not UC.

It’s Houston

They just picked up a p5 win with out 2 Sampson’s , and it’s 2 best players. And still won.

Houston is quickly becoming the prize of the AAC.

And Sampson built every thing I wanted Mick to build.

That’s what I want from cincinnati.

 

[Jon Rycek]

What I’ve always wanted is elite defense with very good offense. There is a team in the AAC who embodies that and it’s not UC.

It’s Houston

They just picked up a p5 win with out 2 Sampson’s , and it’s 2 best players. And still won.

Houston is quickly becoming the prize of the AAC.

And Sampson built every thing I wanted Mick to build.

That’s what I want from cincinnati.

Mick needed a really good offensive minded assistant

 

[TheLivingLegend]

What I’ve always wanted is elite defense with very good offense. There is a team in the AAC who embodies that and it’s not UC.

It’s Houston

They just picked up a p5 win with out 2 Sampson’s , and it’s 2 best players. And still won.

Houston is quickly becoming the prize of the AAC.

And Sampson built every thing I wanted Mick to build.

That’s what I want from cincinnati.

Houston? The team we have beat his many times for conf titles? Lol


Look. First half offense vs X looked smooth and that's with limited shooting. He's recruited shooting. There just not ready yet.

Defense issues around vogt and rap are what we have now. He needs another big. But tari fixes some of that.

I will say. Poor perimeter defense with these guys is inexcusable

 

[cincyguy13]

What I’ve always wanted is elite defense with very good offense. There is a team in the AAC who embodies that and it’s not UC.

It’s Houston

They just picked up a p5 win with out 2 Sampson’s , and it’s 2 best players. And still won.

Houston is quickly becoming the prize of the AAC.

And Sampson built every thing I wanted Mick to build.

That’s what I want from cincinnati.

I don’t, I want more than Houston. Houston is basically mick 2.0. They always find a way to lose when they shouldn’t. There is no reason they shouldn’t have won the league last year by multiple games. If you want to be Houston, you must have been happy with Mick. Which is fine, I just want more and think the program can be more. Could it fail? Of course, but I think it’s worth a shot.

 

[cincyguy13]

What I’ve always wanted is elite defense with very good offense. There is a team in the AAC who embodies that and it’s not UC.

It’s Houston

They just picked up a p5 win with out 2 Sampson’s , and it’s 2 best players. And still won.

Houston is quickly becoming the prize of the AAC.

And Sampson built every thing I wanted Mick to build.

That’s what I want from cincinnati.

Also Houston was passing us up when mick was here. Just like xavier. I know we beat Houston in the conference championship but they murdered us twice that year and would have had a far better roster than us the next year.

 

[cincrulz11]

if sampson coached offense that team would be unstoppable. but with all that talent last year they were 247 in the country in eFG% and thats flat out inexcusable.

his offense is the same as micks. chuck it up and go get it, but he had so much more talent on the offensive end.


we had no business beating them last year but they refused to run any offense and cost themselves the game.

 

[justinhub2003]

I don’t, I want more than Houston. Houston is basically mick 2.0. They always find a way to lose when they shouldn’t. There is no reason they shouldn’t have won the league last year by multiple games. If you want to be Houston, you must have been happy with Mick. Which is fine, I just want more and think the program can be more. Could it fail? Of course, but I think it’s worth a shot.

They went to the sweet 16 2 years ago. We’re the best team in the league last year by every measure.

What’s scary, they ain’t slowing down, they are a culture team. They can lose Nate Hinton, & Fabian white and still be better than they were.


Where Houston is headed is where I want UC to go.

Tough, gritty, defensive, talent but who can also score.

I think Gonzaga is unattainable for this team. They recruit better. They have a much better coach. We need to be a culture team. Because we aren’t a high level recruiting team

 

[cincyguy13]

if sampson coached offense that team would be unstoppable. but with all that talent last year they were 247 in the country in eFG% and thats flat out inexcusable.

his offense is the same as micks. chuck it up and go get it, but he had so much more talent on the offensive end.


we had no business beating them last year but they refused to run any offense and cost themselves the game.

That’s how I feel. Houston has the same issues micks teams had.