Crosstown Shootout Dec 6, 2020 Fifth Third Arena

[cincyguy13]

I wholeheartedly have to agree with you. The fallout from the conference realignment of a few years ago will permanently screw us. Imagine if the old Big East would have stayed together? Our conference would have been big time and X would have been stuck in the A10. We at least should have been in the ACC but all of this has been hashed over by now. It is what it is.

The conference is never an excuse in basketball. You can build success anywhere. Is it harder, yes, but it can be done. Once you get it rolling players will come

 

[cincyguy13]

Harvey came with a lot of baggage. He's from out west and was planning on going to the Zags but they renegade their offer. Kansas was looking at him very closely but after hearing more of the incident, they backed off. He visited X and thought was going to attend but X decided not to pursue. He has a couple of "misdemeanors" that look a lot worse than that. He may be getting sued civilly by the victim but not sure. So it wasn't like we were getting a model citizen here. We were his at least 4th choice.

Okay, since he’s been here, I haven’t heard one negative thing.

 

[cincyguy13]

X is the better program now and probably for the last 25 years. But it can change in an instant. A really good recruiting class can change a lot. Darnell Burton, Fitzpatrick, Cumberland, and just wait Eason are guys they can build a program. X lost two years when Mack left and are working to get it back. We were still very good two years then Mick left. Give it time. We will be back.

Yep, I said X was a better program 2-3 years ago and got a hard time for it. They have been a better program for some time. Thad and Mack are better coaches than mick. In my opinion. Miller was not. They took that program to new heights. Mick did a great job of building the program from nothing but never took that next step. Now, I do think brannen is better than Steele, so time will tell if we overtake them eventually

 

[cincrulz11]

A bit of a frustrating game. I've read a lot of we need rim protectors, and that is true, but xavier doesn't have any either, yet I dont recall us having layup after layup. Our guards can't get beat to the rim every single possession.


With that said we know Vogt can't provide help D, and honestly I think Rap is even worse on the defensive end. He's basically Vogt if Vogt never blocked a shot in his life. Also Rap commits the weakest bail out fouls of any big I remember.

On the wing, its pretty clear you just can't have things go through Keith. He doesn't make the right play. If he gets the ball, its going up no matter what. Out of his 16 shots, at least 6 were horrible decisions that led to easy baskets the other way as we were in no position to rebound or get back on D. His current usage rate is higher than Cumberland or SK's ever was, and he's not close to either of those guys.


MAW again seemed capped vs an better team. If we need Davenport to play 17 a game, thats yikes territory.


Harvey needs to see the court. The offense needs to run through DeJulius at all times. They need to design better stuff to get Vogt the ball. I can't believe Xavier played man nearly the entire game and Vogt rarely got touches in the post. He doesn't get stopped when he gets it there, no excuse to not get it to him.

Rap isn't what I thought he'd be. I thought he'd be a bit more skilled. And please stop shooting 3's 6 feet behind the arc for no reason and then barely touching the front of the rim.

DeJulius is great and I'm excited to see an offense that revolves around his decision making.

We still don't have shooters and its just going to be the fatal flaw this year. Just going to be a tough year but hopefully these younger guys can start to get some PT because the guys out there aren't playing very well.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Given the circumstances (X playing more games, no home crowd advantage, many players still adjusting to new roles) yesterday's performance nearly met the "satisfactory" mark for me.

I think we have the right personnel to solve our defensive/rebounding problems in the post. We'll just have to trust that Brannen figures out the right line-ups/match-ups as the season goes on.

My main concerns are with outside shooting and performing in the clutch when games are close down the stretch.

Going into this season, many expected us to be at least a decent 3-point shooting team due to last year's 3FG shooting numbers by Keith (34.2%), Mika (37.3%), and DeJulius (36.1%).

The reality is that each of these players shot the 3 ball worse during conference play towards the end of the season than than during OOC play at the beginning of the season. Keith didn't see a huge drop off while shooting 33.3%, but Mika shot 28.2% and DeJulius shot 27.9%.

We don't have volume 3-point shooters this season like the Cumberlands who have the ability to change games by knocking down a barrage of deep shots over the course of a few minutes.

I'm also concerned that without Jarron's facilitation abilities this season, we don't consistently create the same caliber of open looks as we did last season.

As for clutch performances, it's still too early to make a definite conclusion here, but it's hard not to single out Keith.

We've had two games where the game was close over the last quarter of play and between the missed free throws, overdribbling/turnovers, and a general inability to take control on offense, Keith has not stepped up in the capacity that many were hoping he would in such circumstances.

 

[cincrulz11]

Going into this season, many expected us to be at least a decent 3-point shooting team due to last year's 3FG shooting numbers by Keith (34.2%), Mika (37.3%), and DeJulius (36.1%).

I think when we go forward, if guys are shooting less than 100 a year, its usually cause they aren't great shooters. None of those guys got to 90 3's last year so their % is going to be heavily influence by 1 hot night. Like if you take Keiths game against Vermont out last year (4-4), he shot 30% the other 29 games. Maw started his career 12-22 from 3 and is 11-44 since. DeJulius looks to be really streaky. Started last year 11-23, then finished 19-60 to go with 1-15 in his few attempts as a Freshman.

Out of those 3, MAW is the only one that looks like they might go in when he shoots them.


If Gabe can get in and prove he can make some 3's, he might find himself with some PT.

 

[Loser Mentality]

Observation #2:

No excuses for yesterday's "L". Xavier guys wanted more period. They were the more aggressive team.

This will be the first year we don't have a feared interior defender. Which spells trouble for those teams that realize like Xavier did,...Beat these guys to the bucket, big men can't get there.

Looks like zone on "D" when Rap and Vogt in.

Not too concerned with the offense, we just missed open shots.

Vogt has to be equally effective on both ends of the floor, or it might be time to take a seat soon.

 

[cincyalum2014]

A bit of a frustrating game. I've read a lot of we need rim protectors, and that is true, but xavier doesn't have any either, yet I dont recall us having layup after layup. Our guards can't get beat to the rim every single possession.


With that said we know Vogt can't provide help D, and honestly I think Rap is even worse on the defensive end. He's basically Vogt if Vogt never blocked a shot in his life. Also Rap commits the weakest bail out fouls of any big I remember.

On the wing, its pretty clear you just can't have things go through Keith. He doesn't make the right play. If he gets the ball, its going up no matter what. Out of his 16 shots, at least 6 were horrible decisions that led to easy baskets the other way as we were in no position to rebound or get back on D. His current usage rate is higher than Cumberland or SK's ever was, and he's not close to either of those guys.


MAW again seemed capped vs an better team. If we need Davenport to play 17 a game, thats yikes territory.


Harvey needs to see the court. The offense needs to run through DeJulius at all times. They need to design better stuff to get Vogt the ball. I can't believe Xavier played man nearly the entire game and Vogt rarely got touches in the post. He doesn't get stopped when he gets it there, no excuse to not get it to him.

Rap isn't what I thought he'd be. I thought he'd be a bit more skilled. And please stop shooting 3's 6 feet behind the arc for no reason and then barely touching the front of the rim.

DeJulius is great and I'm excited to see an offense that revolves around his decision making.

We still don't have shooters and its just going to be the fatal flaw this year. Just going to be a tough year but hopefully these younger guys can start to get some PT because the guys out there aren't playing very well.

I agree, Rap is just soooo slow and not even remotely quick, his shot selection was highly questionable, shooting behind and NBA range 3 and barley hitting the front of the rim on more than one occasion. If Rap is not making shots he has no business playing 25+ minutes a game. He offers nothing on the defensive end other than very late help side defense and bailout fouls, he's not great off the block with or without the ball. All of our bigs are just not that good, I will not include Eason because he has only played 2 college games.

 

[cincyalum2014]

Do the people who love Diarra just automatically think this guys "potential" is just going to randomly show up and he will all of a sudden be really good? Hes a great kid and funny as hell but hes 22 or 23 and in his 4th year, he is what he is at this point and that is not very good. He had a stretch of 4 or 5 games last year where he looked like he turned the corner and then regressed back to what he normally was.

 

[Emperor Snapper]

The simple fact is that the starting lineup includes a transfer from the Patriot League (who shot 26% from 3 there), a transfer from the Horizon League, a transfer from the Big 10 who was slated to be his team's 6th guard this season had he stayed, and a guy who grew up in Syracuse, NY and was not recruited by Syracuse University.

That is the sort of lineup you would typically expect to see in, well, the Horizon League. Some guys are overlooked and under recruited, but not so many that you should expect a lineup of guys like this to be a strong team. Most guys in small conferences or stuck on the end of the bench are not hidden stars, they are just not very good.

There is not a single reliable shooter, and defensively they all look like they are stuck in a lower gear. I expect to see teams employ a lot of zone defense and pack the lane. Honestly, UC should try to do the same, because in a man the guards just get blown past and they either give up layups or wide open shooters when the help comes. At least a zone would cut down on the easy looks at the rim.

 

[cincrulz11]

Rap might go the way of Mcneil. I just don't see what he brings to this squad.


Maybe we just go small with it and play 4 guards. I dont know what the answer is, but Vogt and Rap together doesn't look like its it.


Eason has to slow down a bit. He has all kinds of talent and he hunts rebounds, but he's gotta relax and let the game come to him. He playing a bit like he needs to make an amazing play every time he's got the ball which is leading to tons of turnovers.

 

[Queens_NYC]

I think when we go forward, if guys are shooting less than 100 a year, its usually cause they aren't great shooters. None of those guys got to 90 3's last year so their % is going to be heavily influence by 1 hot night. Like if you take Keiths game against Vermont out last year (4-4), he shot 30% the other 29 games. Maw started his career 12-22 from 3 and is 11-44 since. DeJulius looks to be really streaky. Started last year 11-23, then finished 19-60 to go with 1-15 in his few attempts as a Freshman.

Out of those 3, MAW is the only one that looks like they might go in when he shoots them.


If Gabe can get in and prove he can make some 3's, he might find himself with some PT.

What do you think is the solution if we have considerably less competent 3-point shooters than years past?

Through 2 games, we're chucking shots at the same rate as we did last season.

 

[waterhead]

What do you think is the solution if we have considerably less competent 3-point shooters than years past?

Through 2 games, we're chucking shots at the same rate as we did last season.

We aren't shooting a lot of set 3's off the assist or kick out. Those are the one's that go down at a higher %. We need to get in the lane and be willing to look for the kickout. We don't have the Cumberlands who can create and make their own or shoot bombs all day. With a short clock we are settling for long bombs. We need to attack the paint on short clock and hit the open guy with about 2-3 seconds left on the clock (or shoot a J if noone is open). We need to shoot closer to the 3 line.

 

[waterhead]

Rap might go the way of Mcneil. I just don't see what he brings to this squad.


Maybe we just go small with it and play 4 guards. I dont know what the answer is, but Vogt and Rap together doesn't look like its it.


Eason has to slow down a bit. He has all kinds of talent and he hunts rebounds, but he's gotta relax and let the game come to him. He playing a bit like he needs to make an amazing play every time he's got the ball which is leading to tons of turnovers.

Brannen has his work cut out to find some working rotations at the 4 and 5. Someone is going to be upset with minutes but we have to win games. Eason is a guy we have to keep ramping up minutes and yes make sure he knows he has to slow it down. We don't need him to be a play maker on offense. We do need defense and rebounding and a little bit of offense.

I don't know if we can play Vogt 30 minutes and Rap 25. I think 20 and 20 is better. Get Eason in there for 20 plus. Davenport maybe 15 and maybe Dou if he gets his head straight. I don't know about 4 guards...we could do that but Harvey barely played and Madsen didn't play at all. I don't think we can go with DD, Saunders, MAW and Williams...that is way too small.

Should be interesting on rotations...we are probably several games away from figuring those out.

 

[cincyguy13]

What do you think is the solution if we have considerably less competent 3-point shooters than years past?

Through 2 games, we're chucking shots at the same rate as we did last season.

It’s also been 2 games

 

[cincyguy13]

Rap might go the way of Mcneil. I just don't see what he brings to this squad.


Maybe we just go small with it and play 4 guards. I dont know what the answer is, but Vogt and Rap together doesn't look like its it.


Eason has to slow down a bit. He has all kinds of talent and he hunts rebounds, but he's gotta relax and let the game come to him. He playing a bit like he needs to make an amazing play every time he's got the ball which is leading to tons of turnovers.

I actually like rap. I think he’s a solid scorer/backup. If he can give u 8 points, a couple 3s, I’d take that. The problem is when you are counting on him to carry your team

 

[cincrulz11]

What do you think is the solution if we have considerably less competent 3-point shooters than years past?

Through 2 games, we're chucking shots at the same rate as we did last season.

we have to keep moving the ball. it doesn't make offense impossible, just tougher.


im sure brannen (or any other coach for that matter) would like at least 1 guy the other teams won't help off of. unfortunately we don't have a single one. makes it harder to drive and feed the post.


Think back when we played defense here and a team didn't have a single shooter. How much easier did that make it for us?

 

[cincrulz11]

I actually like rap. I think he’s a solid scorer/backup. If he can give u 8 points, a couple 3s, I’d take that. The problem is when you are counting on him to carry your team

Maybe if we want to play him at the 5 in a small lineup. But man if people think Vogt can't protect the rim...


With him and Vogt together, theres just no inside defense at all. Vogt can at least play post defense on his man if he's asked to. I dont think Rap can even do that.


Yeah I think he can be an ok bench guy, thats a nice role for him.

 

[waterhead]

In terms of coaching we seem to be at polar opposites between Cronin and Brannen and I think we need something in between. Coach should have called a time out and told Keith and Rap to stop jacking up 3 bombs and attack the paint. Those possessions hurt a lot in the final count and took some momentum from us. His offense can get open looks but any offense can get looks from 6 feet past the arc just about any time they want. That is not an open shot or a play call...that is a dumb shot if there is enough time on the clock. We are shooting 20% from 3 on the season for a reason. The first game we saw a lot of deep balls as well.

Need some discipline but not to the extent that Cronin would go and not to the extent Brannen won't go. It is okay to use the bench in games to coach a player but not to the point everyone is so worried that they freeze up. Need to find that happy medium.

 

[waterhead]

Maybe if we want to play him at the 5 in a small lineup. But man if people think Vogt can't protect the rim...


With him and Vogt together, theres just no inside defense at all. Vogt can at least play post defense on his man if he's asked to. I dont think Rap can even do that.


Yeah I think he can be an ok bench guy, thats a nice role for him.

I think Eason can find all day on the court as a perimeter defender, a back side help shot blocker, a rebounder...and that doesn't even consider his skills on offense. The sooner we get him up to speed the better. First game he had 4 turnovers and last game he had 1. That is progress. He can make up for a couple turnovers with the rest of his game no problem.

Rap or Vogt (at least one or both) is going to have to surrender some time on the court if we are going to be good.