State of the Program

[TheRealUC]

Really? Haven't you heard it enough? Lol. Just what we did when we fired Tony Yates. Put together a search committee that includes some former Bearcats. That one included Oscar I believe. Identify some coaches to target, and then sit back and see how many of the other 333 Div. 1 coaches want a raise to $2.5 dollars, plus the whole universe of top lower division coaches and top assistant coaches. Give them our expectations. Top 25 recruiting, top 25 ranking, league and tourney championships, some nice NCAA runs, NBA draft pick, etc. See who that scares away, then select the best of the best. Pretty simple.

So you're basically saying literally anyone else...cuz for 2.5 million there aren't many coaches that would be scared away by those expectations.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

No, let the season play out and see if progress is made, but the rope is getting stretched thin. Keep waiting and the task keeps getting more difficult, and our relevance in college basketball keeps fading. The perfect timing would be to open the new arena with a new coach. A complete new beginning for UC Basketball.

That would be the dream scenario. A coach with a big personality would be great to open the new arena.

 

[L-T]

So you're basically saying literally anyone else...cuz for 2.5 million there aren't many coaches that would be scared away by those expectations.

The bottom line is the somewhere around 330 Div. 1 coaches make less than Cronin. Add to that, all the lower division coaches make way less, and all the great assistants make way less. If you can't find one very good coach that can easily surpass Cronin's meager results, with all the video and data that is available today, then that search committee has some serious issues. Virginia went and snatched up Tony Bennett after his 16-15 season at Washington State. Wichita snatched up Marshall. How have those hires worked out?

 

[TheRealUC]

The bottom line is the somewhere around 330 Div. 1 coaches make less than Cronin. Add to that, all the lower division coaches make way less, and all the great assistants make way less. If you can't find one very good coach that can easily surpass Cronin's meager results, with all the video and data that is available today, then that search committee has some serious issuea. Virginia went and snatched up Tony Bennett after his 16-15 season at Washington State. Wichita snatched up

I'm not saying there are absolutely no better options, but to call his results meager when he's in the company of some pretty impressive programs/coaches when it comes to making the tournament is a massive understatement. The national media constantly praises the job he has done, especially with the situation he took over. He's by no means untouchable but it's 100% obvious you're letting your personal feelings get in the way of rational thought. IF you think 5* recruits are going to suddenly flock to UC if they chose to go with "just anybody" out of 330 coaches then you're beyond mistaken.

But on a lighter note, this is the most i've gone back and forth with you without wanting to kick you in the throat, so i'm gonna chalk this up as progress

 

[L-T]

I'm not saying there are absolutely no better options, but to call his results meager when he's in the company of some pretty impressive programs/coaches when it comes to making the tournament is a massive understatement. The national media constantly praises the job he has done, especially with the situation he took over. He's by no means untouchable but it's 100% obvious you're letting your personal feelings get in the way of rational thought

Attendance is dismal. Graduation is dismal. His participation trophys for the NCAA are overrated. Almost no NBA draft picks, Recruiting not even on the radar. As Jack said, the landscape has changed. Top players leave every year from the top programs. They have to replace great players every year. Not us. We don't get great players. It's a lot easier to earn your participation trophy at Cincinnati by recruiting average players, playing a bunch of cupcakes, and doing just enough to earn your 8-10 seed. The top programs are replacing great players annually, which is exactly why Kentucky missed out a few years ago. Surely your not comparing us favorably with Kentucky? He can thank our great tradition for this, because if he was at some lower stature school, he wouldn't be skating in with these meager results.

 

[L-T]

I'm not saying there are absolutely no better options, but to call his results meager when he's in the company of some pretty impressive programs/coaches when it comes to making the tournament is a massive understatement. The national media constantly praises the job he has done, especially with the situation he took over. He's by no means untouchable but it's 100% obvious you're letting your personal feelings get in the way of rational thought. IF you think 5* recruits are going to suddenly flock to UC if they chose to go with "just anybody" out of 330 coaches then you're beyond mistaken.

But on a lighter note, this is the most i've gone back and forth with you without wanting to kick you in the throat, so i'm gonna chalk this up as progress

I'm just a fan who cares deeply for this program and that drives everything I say. I'm not looking to fight with nobody. I'm just saying what I feel. I'm open to praise and love Cronin. But, I won't do it until he earns it. Winning on Thursday might start that process.

 

[GoCats88]

Attendance is dismal. Graduation is dismal. His participation trophys for the NCAA are overrated. Almost no NBA draft picks, Recruiting not even on the radar. As Jack said, the landscape has changed. Top players leave every year from the top programs. They have to replace great players every year. Not us. We don't get great players. It's a lot easier to earn your participation trophy at Cincinnati by recruiting average players, playing a bunch of cupcakes, and doing just enough to earn your 8-10 seed. The top programs are replacing great players annually, which is exactly why Kentucky missed out a few years ago. Surely your not comparing us favorably with Kentucky? He can thank our great tradition for this, because if he was at some lower stature school, he wouldn't be skating in with these meager results.

Meager results that only 6-7 others coaches have had.. k

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

We made the Sweet 16 and actually got worse as a program. The recruiting didn't improve, the support didn't improve, the scheduling barely improved. I have no reason to believe the new arena will do much besides a slight bump in attendence for the first season.

We don't play in big time preseason exempt tournaments like Maui, Battle 4 Atlantis, etc. We don't play marquee non-conference neutral games. We can't even get Louisville on the schedule but they have no problem playing Memphis.

You'd think with all the great accomplishments we would be in a better place as a program.

 

[Bearcat22]

We made the Sweet 16 and actually got worse as a program. The recruiting didn't improve, the support didn't improve, the scheduling barely improved. I have no reason to believe the new arena will do much besides a slight bump in attendence for the first season.

We don't play in big time preseason exempt tournaments like Maui, Battle 4 Atlantis, etc. We don't play marquee non-conference neutral games. We can't even get Louisville on the schedule but they have no problem playing Memphis.

You'd think with all the great accomplishments we would be in a better place as a program.

I was wondering about the big preseason tournaments also. It seems like X gets into them every other year.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Washington and Brooke are already part of our ranking in the season they were recruited.

Are you sure about that? I don't feel like Broome is accounted for in our Class of 2016 or 2017 recruiting ranking.

 

[waterhead]

I'm just a fan who cares deeply for this program and that drives everything I say. I'm not looking to fight with nobody. I'm just saying what I feel. I'm open to praise and love Cronin. But, I won't do it until he earns it. Winning on Thursday might start that process.

Things could be better and things could be worse. We all want them to be better. Having this conversation in the middle of a season isn't really going to accomplish much because Cronin isn't getting fired during this season.

Let's watch another season and fill the off season with performance evaluation. Who knows...minds could change either way when the season is over.

 

[skylinecat]

Are you sure about that? I don't feel like Broome is accounted for in our Class of 2016 or 2017 recruiting ranking.

Because they aren't. Whats the difference from having a freshman come in an average 16 and 9 that will only stay 2 years v. a Junior besides that we get a shiny start next to our name on the rivals top 25?

 

[TheRealUC]

I'm just a fan who cares deeply for this program and that drives everything I say. I'm not looking to fight with nobody. I'm just saying what I feel. I'm open to praise and love Cronin. But, I won't do it until he earns it. Winning on Thursday might start that process.

And if we lose to a higher ranked opponent on the road? Do you consider that another point against Cronin?

 

[TheRealUC]

He can thank our great tradition for this, because if he was at some lower stature school, he wouldn't be skating in with these meager results.

I understand the great tradition thing but there comes a time when you have to stop hanging your hat on things that happened half a century ago. I know it's different cuz you've been a fan much longer but early exits from the tournament have been the norm since as long as I can remember...and with much higher expectations. Now I'd love to have those expectations again but i think it's foolish to put us in the category of the Duke's, Kentucky's, Kansas', etc. Just a thought from a different perspective

 

[L-T]

I understand the great tradition thing but there comes a time when you have to stop hanging your hat on things that happened half a century ago. I know it's different cuz you've been a fan much longer but early exits from the tournament have been the norm since as long as I can remember...and with much higher expectations. Now I'd love to have those expectations again but i think it's foolish to put us in the category of the Duke's, Kentucky's, Kansas', etc. Just a thought from a different perspective[/QUOT

Who cares what happened 55 years ago? I want what we had 11-16 years ago. All the brilliant minds in here continually point to Huggs last 6 years and equate those to virtually the same thing Mick has given us. What a crock. Those 2 coaching comparisons are night and day. Let's examine those underperforming last 6 years of Huggs. His last 2 recruiting classes were Top 25. He had a #1 recruiting class and some other top 20s. 4 MacDonald's All-Americans. 77 of 112 weeks ranked in the Top 25. 32 of 112 weeks in the top 10. 28 of 112 weeks ranked in the Top 5. 12 of 112 weeks ranked #1. 3 Conference USA Regular Season Championships. 2 CUSA Conference Tourney Championships. 8 NBA DRAFT Picks. NCAA Seeds...#1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8. 1 National Player of the Year. One Number 1 NBA Draft Pick. 3 First Round NBA Draft Picks. One Sweet 16. 2 1st Team All Americans.

The above performance, which many in here label as not that great, makes Cronin's 6 tourney years pale in comparison. We can definitely achieve this again. The disappointing MARCH MADNESS results can definitely be surpassed. Anything and everything that Huggs achieved in his last 14 years is possible, and I believe a national championship is possible as well. But, 10+ years of this coach has shown that virtually none of it is possible, except the disappointing March Madness.

Again, these were the years when Huggs was losing his Mojo.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I understand the great tradition thing but there comes a time when you have to stop hanging your hat on things that happened half a century ago. I know it's different cuz you've been a fan much longer but early exits from the tournament have been the norm since as long as I can remember...and with much higher expectations. Now I'd love to have those expectations again but i think it's foolish to put us in the category of the Duke's, Kentucky's, Kansas', etc. Just a thought from a different perspective[/QUOT

Who cares what happened 55 years ago? I want what we had 11-16 years ago. All the brilliant minds in here continually point to Huggs last 6 years and equate those to virtually the same thing Mick has given us. What a crock. Those 2 coaching comparisons are night and day. Let's examine those underperforming last 6 years of Huggs. His last 2 recruiting classes were Top 25. He had a #1 recruiting class and some other top 20s. 4 MacDonald's All-Americans. 77 of 112 weeks ranked in the Top 25. 32 of 112 weeks in the top 10. 28 of 112 weeks ranked in the Top 5. 12 of 112 weeks ranked #1. 3 Conference USA Regular Season Championships. 2 CUSA Conference Tourney Championships. 8 NBA DRAFT Picks. NCAA Seeds...#1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8. 1 National Player of the Year. One Number 1 NBA Draft Pick. 3 First Round NBA Draft Picks. One Sweet 16. 2 1st Team All Americans.

The above performance, which many in here label as not that great, makes Cronin's 6 tourney years pale in comparison. We can definitely achieve this again. The disappointing MARCH MADNESS results can definitely be surpassed. Anything and everything that Huggs achieved in his last 14 years is possible, and I believe a national championship is possible as well. But, 10+ years of this coach has shown that virtually none of it is possible, except the disappointing March Madness.

Again, these were the years when Huggs was losing his Mojo.

It's interesting how you can spin stats to make an argument. Yes, in Huggins last 6 years he made one sweet 16. But he also made one sweet 16 in his last 9 years. 9 years and only one sweet 16. Sounds like a similar pace to Mick. And that year they made the sweet 16 they did so by beating a 12 seed and a 13 seed. In 2004 they got absolutely embarrassed by 24 points to a lower seeded team.

It's nice to have some of those other things you mentioned (NBA players, highly ranked recruiting classes) but in reality they don't mean squat if it doesn't parlay onto the court.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It's interesting how you can spin stats to make an argument. Yes, in Huggins last 6 years he made one sweet 16. But he also made one sweet 16 in his last 9 years. 9 years and only one sweet 16. Sounds like a similar pace to Mick. And that year they made the sweet 16 they did so by beating a 12 seed and a 13 seed. In 2004 they got absolutely embarrassed by 24 points to a lower seeded team.

It's nice to have some of those other things you mentioned (NBA players, highly ranked recruiting classes) but in reality they don't mean squat if it doesn't parlay onto the court.

The NCAA Tournament really can be a crap shoot. That's why I personally prefer racking up Conference Titles and Conference Tournament Titles. There's no good reason why we can't expect more of those.

 

[GoCats88]

We made the Sweet 16 and actually got worse as a program. The recruiting didn't improve, the support didn't improve, the scheduling barely improved. I have no reason to believe the new arena will do much besides a slight bump in attendence for the first season.

We don't play in big time preseason exempt tournaments like Maui, Battle 4 Atlantis, etc. We don't play marquee non-conference neutral games. We can't even get Louisville on the schedule but they have no problem playing Memphis.

You'd think with all the great accomplishments we would be in a better place as a program.

We made it to the sheet sixteen and the support didn't improve. Totally the coaches fault we have terrible fans.

 

[GoCats88]

I'm sorry, but I've traveled my whole life and lived in few different cities. Cincinnati has some of the worst sports fans in the country, by that I mean the support for their sports teams. From the bengals to the bearcats and the reds, one off season or even a stretch of bad games kills attendance and fan support, I'm glad I'm not a bengals fan, but it kills me with the bearcats. And I don't mean anyone on the post in particular, just a general statement. This city is fair weather as can be, flat out.

 

[TheRealUC]

It's interesting how you can spin stats to make an argument. Yes, in Huggins last 6 years he made one sweet 16. But he also made one sweet 16 in his last 9 years. 9 years and only one sweet 16. Sounds like a similar pace to Mick. And that year they made the sweet 16 they did so by beating a 12 seed and a 13 seed. In 2004 they got absolutely embarrassed by 24 points to a lower seeded team.

It's nice to have some of those other things you mentioned (NBA players, highly ranked recruiting classes) but in reality they don't mean squat if it doesn't parlay onto the court.

Well said.