jacobkdoyle
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The 3-8 in the last 4 years is what grinds my gears. Coach Cronin has still never won an NCAA game without Kirkpatrick. We had success early but it has really tailed off.
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State of the Program
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The 3-8 in the last 4 years is what grinds my gears. Coach Cronin has still never won an NCAA game without Kirkpatrick. We had success early but it has really tailed off.
JackBauer151
Well-known member
The landscape has changed. Today we see more mid-majors than ever advancing deep into March Madness, up to and including the National Championship game. We never saw this kind of parity in the 90s. So yes, it has changed and it has become easier to achieve success outside of the P5 conferences, which is exactly why we have so many highly paid non-P5 coaches.
Butler is not a midmajor in my opinion, that had a coach who is now at the helm for the Boston Celtics. George Mason was a cinderella that happens once every 30 years (havent heard from them since). VCU and Wichita State are legitimate. The power is now concentrated at the very top. They get all the money, all the exposure, and have all the power. This allows them to recruit better players, have better facilities, have bigger budgets, have bigger brands, play at marquee times on marquee channels. It's a logical conclusion. This is a decided advantage over everyone else who is not in this category. I have agreed with you this problem can be overcome. VCU and Witchita have proven this. But they are the ONLY ones out of the so called midmajor class to do so in the last 16 years and maintain their success and brand. One team lost their head coach and the other one will as soon at the right job opens up. We have to do what Xavier has done. INVEST in the program from top to bottom. They have a better arena, better conference, better schedule, and quite frankly a better basketball brand. Yet they still dont have a final 4. Again a new coach might be able to cure this illness but a new coach could also do a lot worse than the one we have right now. Im interested to see if we can raise this coach's profile than risk hiring a new one that sucks balls. I respect your opinion on this. You have stayed true to it since, well, as long as I can remember. However the change in landscape has not been good for UC as well as other programs. That's just a fact. It's simple dollars and cents at this point. If UC was in the Big 10 they would have more exposure, a shit ton of more money, better facilities, natural rivalries with blue blood programs on their schedule every year, and would be perceived as a big boy school. Those all would be HUGE for the program as a whole and recruiting in particular. I don't think even you would disagree with that. I think we have probably argued this topic for a couple years now so this will be my last response on it. I hope Cronin figures out how to be Witchita and VCU and Zags at their peak. If he doesnt in the next two years Im open to trying something different. You may very well be right that a change in the head coach could be all the difference that needs to be made. You could also be very wrong. I just think UC needs to invest in the other things first for it to matter one way or another. I think they are doing that which is why Im ready to be open to the possibility of a new coach if the results dont change and quickly. Thanks for the discussion.
Butler is not a midmajor in my opinion, that had a coach who is now at the helm for the Boston Celtics. George Mason was a cinderella that happens once every 30 years (havent heard from them since). VCU and Wichita State are legitimate. The power is now concentrated at the very top. They get all the money, all the exposure, and have all the power. This allows them to recruit better players, have better facilities, have bigger budgets, have bigger brands, play at marquee times on marquee channels. It's a logical conclusion. This is a decided advantage over everyone else who is not in this category. I have agreed with you this problem can be overcome. VCU and Witchita have proven this. But they are the ONLY ones out of the so called midmajor class to do so in the last 16 years and maintain their success and brand. One team lost their head coach and the other one will as soon at the right job opens up. We have to do what Xavier has done. INVEST in the program from top to bottom. They have a better arena, better conference, better schedule, and quite frankly a better basketball brand. Yet they still dont have a final 4. Again a new coach might be able to cure this illness but a new coach could also do a lot worse than the one we have right now. Im interested to see if we can raise this coach's profile than risk hiring a new one that sucks balls. I respect your opinion on this. You have stayed true to it since, well, as long as I can remember. However the change in landscape has not been good for UC as well as other programs. That's just a fact. It's simple dollars and cents at this point. If UC was in the Big 10 they would have more exposure, a shit ton of more money, better facilities, natural rivalries with blue blood programs on their schedule every year, and would be perceived as a big boy school. Those all would be HUGE for the program as a whole and recruiting in particular. I don't think even you would disagree with that. I think we have probably argued this topic for a couple years now so this will be my last response on it. I hope Cronin figures out how to be Witchita and VCU and Zags at their peak. If he doesnt in the next two years Im open to trying something different. You may very well be right that a change in the head coach could be all the difference that needs to be made. You could also be very wrong. I just think UC needs to invest in the other things first for it to matter one way or another. I think they are doing that which is why Im ready to be open to the possibility of a new coach if the results dont change and quickly. Thanks for the discussion.
I can't wait to get our participation trophy again this year. #makeucbasketballgreatagain
I just wish the Cincinnati area produced more top basketball talent like Kennard Johnson- Eugene Land- Louis Orr-Dexter Bailey-Tyrone Hill-Bobby Austin-O J Mayo-Ricky Callaway seems like lately the area talent is way down especially big men.
I just wish the Cincinnati area produced more top basketball talent like Kennard Johnson- Eugene Land- Louis Orr-Dexter Bailey-Tyrone Hill-Bobby Austin-O J Mayo-Ricky Callaway seems like lately the area talent is way down especially big men.
kevin johnson tho!!!
JackBauer151
Well-known member
I can't wait to get our participation trophy again this year. #makeucbasketballgreatagain
#factsdontmatteranymore
Using uconn as an example of still being able to get recruits in a non-p5 is a bit of a stretch. Your talking about program who had enormous success in one of the best conferences of all time, that transitioned to a former NBA player that was groomed by a hall of fame coach and also was already heavily involved with recruits at that time.
#factsdontmatteranymore
#notwiththisweakfanbase
Using uconn as an example of still being able to get recruits in a non-p5 is a bit of a stretch. Your talking about program who had enormous success in one of the best conferences of all time, that transitioned to a former NBA player that was groomed by a hall of fame coach and also was already heavily involved with recruits at that time.
This is Ollie's 5th season...still top 10. Let's go hire an NBA player then and drop our ex Woodward JV coach and video coordinator. If you don't like UCONN, use Gonzaga then. Use Western Kentucky's top 10 recruiting class then. Use Xavier then. Use Freaking Harvard.
This is Ollie's 5th season...still top 10. Let's go hire an NBA player then and drop our ex Woodward JV coach and video coordinator. If you don't like UCONN, use Gonzaga then. Use Western Kentucky's top 10 recruiting class then. Use Xavier then. Use Freaking Harvard.
Believe me, if an ex nba player from UC was a candidate i would trade in a heartbeat
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The other thing you must do is take Cronin's last five or so already poor recruiting classes and reduce his rankings substantially even further to account for the 8 or 9 players who transferred out after they got here. But, that's ok....let's keep waiting.
#BearcatNation
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The other thing you must do is take Cronin's last five or so already poor recruiting classes and reduce his rankings substantially even further to account for the 8 or 9 players who transferred out after they got here. But, that's ok....let's keep waiting.
Alright bud. Since you're sooooo sick of waiting, let's hear your plan. I want to know what you would do if you were sworn in as AD today.
jacobkdoyle
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The other thing you must do is take Cronin's last five or so already poor recruiting classes and reduce his rankings substantially even further to account for the 8 or 9 players who transferred out after they got here. But, that's ok....let's keep waiting.
Then bump them right back up when you factor in guys like Washington and Broome...who I believe most would take over Strickland, Gaines, whoever else didn't make it.
jacobkdoyle
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Then bump them right back up when you factor in guys like Washington and Broome...who I believe most would take over Strickland, Gaines, whoever else didn't make it.
*Not saying I'm thrilled with lowly rated recruiting classes, but removing some of those guys is addition by subtraction when you replace them with transfers who don't count towards anything ratings-wise.
Alright bud. Since you're sooooo sick of waiting, let's hear your plan. I want to know what you would do if you were sworn in as AD today.
Really? Haven't you heard it enough? Lol. Just what we did when we fired Tony Yates. Put together a search committee that includes some former Bearcats. That one included Oscar I believe. Identify some coaches to target, and then sit back and see how many of the other 333 Div. 1 coaches want a raise to $2.5 dollars, plus the whole universe of top lower division coaches and top assistant coaches. Give them our expectations. Top 25 recruiting, top 25 ranking, league and tourney championships, some nice NCAA runs, NBA draft pick, etc. See who that scares away, then select the best of the best. Pretty simple.
Then bump them right back up when you factor in guys like Washington and Broome...who I believe most would take over Strickland, Gaines, whoever else didn't make it.
Washington and Brooke are already part of our ranking in the season they were recruited.
#BearcatNation
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Really? Haven't you heard it enough? Lol. Just what we did when we fired Tony Yates. Put together a search committee that includes some former Bearcats. That one included Oscar I believe. Identify some coaches to target, and then sit back and see how many of the other 333 Div. 1 coaches want a raise to $2.5 dollars, plus the whole universe of top lower division coaches and top assistant coaches. Give them our expectations. Top 25 recruiting, top 25 ranking, league and tourney championships, some nice NCAA runs, NBA draft pick, etc. See who that scares away, then select the best of the best. Pretty simple.
So fire him today? Mid-season?
*Not saying I'm thrilled with lowly rated recruiting classes, but removing some of those guys is addition by subtraction when you replace them with transfers who don't count towards anything ratings-wise.
Yes, once they got here and we saw how bad they were, it was addition by subtraction. But, their recruitement was why our ranking reached a certain level, which was never all that good. But removing them would drop the ranking substantially.
So fire him today? Mid-season?
No, let the season play out and see if progress is made, but the rope is getting stretched thin. Keep waiting and the task keeps getting more difficult, and our relevance in college basketball keeps fading. The perfect timing would be to open the new arena with a new coach. A complete new beginning for UC Basketball.
Yes, once they got here and we saw how bad they were, it was addition by subtraction. But, their recruitement was why our ranking reached a certain level, which was never all that good. But removing them would drop the ranking substantially.
You make absolutely zero sense sometimes. You've been going on recently about nick has been doing better at some of the things you have gripes with. Now today you want him fired, today. Wth lol. I'm with Jacob on a lot of this, yes our early exits have been pretty frustrating, no one wants to see their team get knocked out early. You know what people want to see even less? Their team not playing at all come tourney time. Mick gets us there, and we've lost in some pretty tough ways the last couple years. Went out to KY, a final four team two years ago, then we all remember last season. I think mick has his best team yet this year, -!; next year could and probably will be even better as long as Washington and Evans don't make an early exit. If we don't get to a sweet 16, elite 8 or more the next couple years I'll start to have a problem. But it's been a tough rebuild, a long one at that, but we are moving forward and I see only good things in the future. As said before, mick has been through thick and thin with us, don't bail on him for lack of tourney success in a couple bad years.
