Temple

[waterhead]

Aside from missing out on the greatest player of our generation, Adam kunkle, I don’t think we are that far away. We still need a couple players, curious to see who we can land this spring. We will get some players, just a matter of who

Oh well we can dream about that F4 run with the Kunk on our squad. If only...,...........

 

[waterhead]

If Harvey stays, he will be a star next year. Brannen just needs to tell him he is the guy.

His improvement has come a long way. Some guys just know how to play BB...some guys have to think it through. It’s natural for him. I’m starting to think he could be a real go to guy. I was very glad to see his aggression didn’t fall off after the layoff. If he can figure out how to stay on the court for 30 minutes he will come up with some 20 pt games.

 

[Chance2017]

I think the comments about Mason are mostly about looking solid on the floor at this level compared to pre season expectations. I think most expected him to take 2-3 years to be able to get on the floor other than spot minutes. There was so much ado about his recruit ranking and being nothing more than a lost roster spot to lock up Gabe.

So yes... I like what I see so far in a frosh season woefully short on practice time.

I don’t know how anyone can complain about Mason Madsen so far. He has great body language. Good shooting stroke. He’s a confident player. Everything you want in a 9-10th man. The notion we wasted a scholly on him so lazy. There are only so many minutes to go around and you need a solid guy in that role. Mason looks solid. He’s everything I wanted from Trevor Moore but Trevor was mentally tough enough. Mason laughing at the temple bench is a confidence you need at this level.

 

[Chance2017]

I missed the game live, just finished watching the replay. My review:

First, my favorite complaint. In the 1st half +/-, Eason was +5, Diarra was +6, Vogt was -5. Guess who didn't enter the game in the second half? Maybe Diarra is on a minutes limit, but there is a theme of Diarra coming in, outplaying Vogt and then getting benched for the 2nd half. Based on my +/- (which attributed FT's to the guy who was on the floor when the foul was committed) Vogt finished -6 (he should have been +0 in the 2nd but Keith tech gave up free FT's), Eason +3 and Diarra +6. Vogt did play well on defense in the 2nd half, but that ties into my second point.

I'm with Justin in that Temple should be looking to say goodbye to McKie. I don't know if it's bad coaching or bad execution, but Temple's coaching seems to do them no favors. First the attacking the interior when Vogt is in the game, everyone knows you have to put Vogt in the pick-and-roll, Temple did that some in the first half (and got fouls on Vogt), then just tried to take him straight up in the 2nd. Combine that with a bad tech from McKie (what was he even complaining about) and the late game TO's and McKie can't be a popular guy in Temple right now.

Harvey played really well in the first and solid in the 2nd. Glad he's back and seems to be healthy. Keith seems to be a more consistent player post Covid-break. Playing defense and rebounding throughout the whole game. Saunders started and played a total pf 4 minutes, not sure what that was about. A message to MAW, a message to Saunders? Saunders hasn't been good, so I don't mind the 4 minutes, but the starting is a bit weird.

Seems like people thought Mason played well. I didn't really think so. He made a few nice plays in the 2nd half, but he had early mistakes in the first half and it was his man (Barry) who went off in the 2nd and kept temple in the game. At best I'd say he was a break-even.

DD rebounds and passes well, but needs to take the next step to be a really good PG. He likes to try to throw over the defense and gave up a couple easy TO's. 4 TO's on the night is bad. He's also too quick to shoot the step back 3 at times, that's a shot he can get almost any time, try to get a better shot unless it's late in the shot-clock.

We still need to reduce the TO's and beating Temple by 2 isn't particularly impressive (better than losing to them though). It seems like quite a few players are starting to look good and play well most games (DD, Keith, Davenport and Harvey). If all 4 of them could play well every game, we might be onto something. Still major concerns around center and the TO's. Back-ups needs some work to (I still think Banks is a better option than Saunders and pretty comparable to Mason).

I hope it was COVID stipulations because I was not very happy with the lack of Diarra in the 2nd half.

 

[skyblade]

I don’t know how anyone can complain about Mason Madsen so far. He has great body language. Good shooting stroke. He’s a confident player. Everything you want in a 9-10th man. The notion we wasted a scholly on him so lazy. There are only so many minutes to go around and you need a solid guy in that role. Mason looks solid. He’s everything I wanted from Trevor Moore but Trevor was mentally tough enough. Mason laughing at the temple bench is a confidence you need at this level.

It's depends on him improving. 9/10th man as a freshman is fine, but if he is 9/10th man as a Junior it is a wasted scholarship. Rob Banks looks like a good 9/10th man too - better defense/rebounding than Mason, but a lot less on the offensive end - but nobodies clamoring to give him a scholarship (though I wouldn't be opposed to it if we happen to have one left over).

As I've said in the past, my issue isn't so much with them, as the over-recruitment of guards (and lack of bigs). There are only so many minutes to go around and we recruited more guys than we need at the 1-3. Somebodies going to be on the bench and that somebody is probably going to be one of the low rated recruits (Mikey or Mason).

 

[skyblade]

I hope it was COVID stipulations because I was not very happy with the lack of Diarra in the 2nd half.

I suspect it wasn't Covid, Diarra was allowed to basically play 8 straight minutes (he had an ~30 second break where Vogt came in and committed a foul) in the first. If he's allowed to play 8 straight minutes in the first (and didn't seem worn out), I doubt he wasn't allowed to play the 2nd.

It's been a theme since Brannen started coaching here. There have been a number of games now where Diarra outplays Vogt in the first half when Vogt gets in foul trouble, then Diarra sits on the bench the rest of the game. Brannen simply does not give Diarra the opportunities or slack that he gave Rap or gives Vogt.

Vogt had a relatively good game for him, but he still wasn't that good and was a net negative if you look at +/- (though that's a debated stat to use). Diarra helped us build a lead in the first half (came in with at about 9 minute mark with us 1, left at half with us up 6).

Diarra seems energetic and involved on the bench. But I have to wonder if Diarra will get frustrated at some point.

 

[waterhead]

It's depends on him improving. 9/10th man as a freshman is fine, but if he is 9/10th man as a Junior it is a wasted scholarship. Rob Banks looks like a good 9/10th man too - better defense/rebounding than Mason, but a lot less on the offensive end - but nobodies clamoring to give him a scholarship (though I wouldn't be opposed to it if we happen to have one left over).

As I've said in the past, my issue isn't so much with them, as the over-recruitment of guards (and lack of bigs). There are only so many minutes to go around and we recruited more guys than we need at the 1-3. Somebodies going to be on the bench and that somebody is probably going to be one of the low rated recruits (Mikey or Mason).

I won’t speak to the quality of bigs but the quantity Brannen had to start the year was more than enough. Vogt, Dou, Lakhin, Rap, Eason, Davenport. All were 4s or 5s coming in.

Now that Davenport can shoot we can play him at the 3...but that was a bit unexpected.

 

[waterhead]

I suspect it wasn't Covid, Diarra was allowed to basically play 8 straight minutes (he had an ~30 second break where Vogt came in and committed a foul) in the first. If he's allowed to play 8 straight minutes in the first (and didn't seem worn out), I doubt he wasn't allowed to play the 2nd.

It's been a theme since Brannen started coaching here. There have been a number of games now where Diarra outplays Vogt in the first half when Vogt gets in foul trouble, then Diarra sits on the bench the rest of the game. Brannen simply does not give Diarra the opportunities or slack that he gave Rap or gives Vogt.

Vogt had a relatively good game for him, but he still wasn't that good and was a net negative if you look at +/- (though that's a debated stat to use). Diarra helped us build a lead in the first half (came in with at about 9 minute mark with us 1, left at half with us up 6).

Diarra seems energetic and involved on the bench. But I have to wonder if Diarra will get frustrated at some point.

Harvey outplays many guys too. But he’s on a leash as well. That leash could be for about 20 different reasons and same for Diara.

I often wonder just as I did with Cronin why it seems some guys are in the doghouse. That may not even be the right word. But something is holding them back. Harvey could be a 30 minute guy at this point every night but he hasn’t played more than about 25 in any game.

There is a reason for that whether we know it or not.

 

[Chance2017]

It's depends on him improving. 9/10th man as a freshman is fine, but if he is 9/10th man as a Junior it is a wasted scholarship. Rob Banks looks like a good 9/10th man too - better defense/rebounding than Mason, but a lot less on the offensive end - but nobodies clamoring to give him a scholarship (though I wouldn't be opposed to it if we happen to have one left over).

As I've said in the past, my issue isn't so much with them, as the over-recruitment of guards (and lack of bigs). There are only so many minutes to go around and we recruited more guys than we need at the 1-3. Somebodies going to be on the bench and that somebody is probably going to be one of the low rated recruits (Mikey or Mason).

Why can’t you be a role player in your junior and senior year? We haven’t shown an ability to land 3-4 4 stars a class. What is wrong with filling the role on the team with mason. That’s not a wasted scholarship. If he sucks I agree. I think he could potentially thrive in the role though. The 2010-2011 bearcats had multiple seniors who were bench players with experience.

 

[waterhead]

I suspect it wasn't Covid, Diarra was allowed to basically play 8 straight minutes (he had an ~30 second break where Vogt came in and committed a foul) in the first. If he's allowed to play 8 straight minutes in the first (and didn't seem worn out), I doubt he wasn't allowed to play the 2nd.

It's been a theme since Brannen started coaching here. There have been a number of games now where Diarra outplays Vogt in the first half when Vogt gets in foul trouble, then Diarra sits on the bench the rest of the game. Brannen simply does not give Diarra the opportunities or slack that he gave Rap or gives Vogt.

Vogt had a relatively good game for him, but he still wasn't that good and was a net negative if you look at +/- (though that's a debated stat to use). Diarra helped us build a lead in the first half (came in with at about 9 minute mark with us 1, left at half with us up 6).

Diarra seems energetic and involved on the bench. But I have to wonder if Diarra will get frustrated at some point.

I like actual plus minus numbers. For one game you have to look at who was on the floor but over time I think it’s one of the best stats out there.

 

[waterhead]

Why can’t you be a role player in your junior and senior year? We haven’t shown an ability to land 3-4 4 stars a class. What is wrong with filling the role on the team with mason. That’s not a wasted scholarship. If he sucks I agree. I think he could potentially thrive in the role though. The 2010-2011 bearcats had multiple seniors who were bench players with experience.

It was tough for Cronin to get any more than one 4 star guy per position because he would not recruit over players. Also 4 star guys want playing time and if there is one on the roster already at same position they will likely go to a different team or better conference.

With 13 spots you have to get many lower rated players and hope they exceed expectations.

 

[TheRealMick]

Mason looked solid as can expect. He needs work on being more aggressive on Offense and defense. He was pump faking getting into lane but had no plan once got in there, he needs fire it up without hesitation and on D he was being too nice with their shooter, he needed put a body on him(don’t worry about fouls). Obviously I would’ve took Kunkel right now but I can see Mason avg double digits in 3/4 yrs on winning team. Coach just need understand quickly at this level he’s not winning with team full of Vogt’s and Madsen’s!

 

[TheRealMick]

It was tough for Cronin to get any more than one 4 star guy per position because he would not recruit over players. Also 4 star guys want playing time and if there is one on the roster already at same position they will likely go to a different team or better conference.

With 13 spots you have to get many lower rated players and hope they exceed expectations.

Nah you don’t! You just have to win and be a salesman! Darryl Peterson from west high/Akron has son in 8th grade that might be one and done or straight to league. His son grew up in Akron but dying get back to Cincinnati with family and friends. You get lil P, lil Daryl and kid from Taft, that’s 3 top 50 kids within 4yrs from STATE OF CINCINNATI! Cronin didn’t think too much of Cincinnati(region) basketball, Brannen better not make same mistake. It should be kid from Ohio/nky every class or two.

 

[waterhead]

Nah you don’t! You just have to win and be a salesman! Darryl Peterson from west high/Akron has son in 8th grade that might be one and done or straight to league. His son grew up in Akron but dying get back to Cincinnati with family and friends. You get lil P, lil Daryl and kid from Taft, that’s 3 top 50 kids within 4yrs from STATE OF CINCINNATI! Cronin didn’t think too much of Cincinnati(region) basketball, Brannen better not make same mistake. It should be kid from Ohio/nky every class or two.

I get that but there are only a handful out there who can sell like that. Some coaches find “creative ways “ to land recruits but some of that stuff is also illegal. If you are a good coach and a good sales guy that is pretty rare and most of them are already in better paying jobs.

Gotta start somewhere and work your way up if sales doesn’t come naturally.

 

[skyblade]

I like actual plus minus numbers. For one game you have to look at who was on the floor but over time I think it’s one of the best stats out there.

I do to, I wish I could find a free site that tracked them. I did the +/- myself just while watching the game (and as I said I counted points towards the player when a player who was on the floor when a foul was committed if it resulted in FT's, not the guy on the floor for the FT's - which I'm not sure +/- does). Only for Vogt/Diarra/Eason, since I was interested to see Vogt/Diarra's numbers and because it was relatively easy to track.

 

[waterhead]

I don’t know how anyone can complain about Mason Madsen so far. He has great body language. Good shooting stroke. He’s a confident player. Everything you want in a 9-10th man. The notion we wasted a scholly on him so lazy. There are only so many minutes to go around and you need a solid guy in that role. Mason looks solid. He’s everything I wanted from Trevor Moore but Trevor was mentally tough enough. Mason laughing at the temple bench is a confidence you need at this level.

I agree with all of this! Good post

 

[waterhead]

I do to, I wish I could find a free site that tracked them. I did the +/- myself just while watching the game (and as I said I counted points towards the player when a player who was on the floor when a foul was committed if it resulted in FT's, not the guy on the floor for the FT's - which I'm not sure +/- does). Only for Vogt/Diarra/Eason, since I was interested to see Vogt/Diarra's numbers and because it was relatively easy to track.

There used to be a site for free that tracked it and they also showed a bar graph timeline of who was on the floor during scoring spurts and droughts. So you could actually rate two players at the same position while on court with the same players. It was gold! But I think they sold it to a pay site and I don’t know which.

If I wanted to know how each of the 5s were playing with the other starters it was available. I have been searching ever since and that was probably 5 years ago.

 

[cincyguy13]

Mason looked solid as can expect. He needs work on being more aggressive on Offense and defense. He was pump faking getting into lane but had no plan once got in there, he needs fire it up without hesitation and on D he was being too nice with their shooter, he needed put a body on him(don’t worry about fouls). Obviously I would’ve took Kunkel right now but I can see Mason avg double digits in 3/4 yrs on winning team. Coach just need understand quickly at this level he’s not winning with team full of Vogt’s and Madsen’s!

Yeah, comparing a freshmen with 3-4 games under his belt to a junior is stupid. But here we are. You have to compare them at the same point in their career. You also can’t make trades like Justin suggested. Like I said, I like kunkle but it’s hardly worth losing sleep over. Kunkle is average 7.5 pts per game as a junior. I think mason can do that by the time his a junior or at least close. Did mason have an incredible game last night? No, not at all. But he didn’t look like a scrub either like some suggested before they even seen him play

 

[TheRealMick]

I get that but there are only a handful out there who can sell like that. Some coaches find “creative ways “ to land recruits but some of that stuff is also illegal. If you are a good coach and a good sales guy that is pretty rare and most of them are already in better paying jobs.

Gotta start somewhere and work your way up if sales doesn’t come naturally.

Get results 1st then worry about getting paid later. We could actually been in position win national championship of STATE OF CINCINNATI was locked up. That’s why I hated we didn’t keep the Xenia kid, we can’t afford not get the best in our own backyard!

 

[cincyguy13]

I suspect it wasn't Covid, Diarra was allowed to basically play 8 straight minutes (he had an ~30 second break where Vogt came in and committed a foul) in the first. If he's allowed to play 8 straight minutes in the first (and didn't seem worn out), I doubt he wasn't allowed to play the 2nd.

It's been a theme since Brannen started coaching here. There have been a number of games now where Diarra outplays Vogt in the first half when Vogt gets in foul trouble, then Diarra sits on the bench the rest of the game. Brannen simply does not give Diarra the opportunities or slack that he gave Rap or gives Vogt.

Vogt had a relatively good game for him, but he still wasn't that good and was a net negative if you look at +/- (though that's a debated stat to use). Diarra helped us build a lead in the first half (came in with at about 9 minute mark with us 1, left at half with us up 6).

Diarra seems energetic and involved on the bench. But I have to wonder if Diarra will get frustrated at some point.

Honest question, do you just watch the whole game waiting for diarra to play?

I thought Vogt was terrible in the first half also, but he was great in the second half. His size really effected temple. Diarra played well when he was in and should have played more but Vogt was pretty good in the second half.

Harvey should have played more too. He was our best player for stretches and hardly played the second half. I wonder if it was COVID related.