The Official Bob Huggins Thread

[JasonS]

Micks BE record is 28-47.

Bob dominated CUSA (which was not a bad league by any means) and is the sole reason UC is in the big east.

Not a bad league is no where near the same as the best league in the country every year.

Here is my take on this whole thing:

I loved Bob Huggins while he was at UC and I still like to see him do well. I was pulling hard for him in the Tourney last year and I was really hoping he would finally get that elusive NCAA Title as bittersweet as it would have been. He was always nice to me any time I saw him on campus and I was there during some great years (Kenyon's senior year was my freshman year). When Bob was fired, I was pissed. I thought the timing was ridiculous and I knew that going through the year with an interim coach that wasn't recruiting for UC was going to set the program back big time. I wrote letters to the athletic department expressing my displeasure for how the whole thing went down and when it went down. I wanted to hate UC forever for what they did but I couldn't. I love the university way too much for that but I was concerned that UC Basketball would never be good again. As much as I hated having to defend the program to other fans because of the media sensationalism on many things (like the thug perception), I hated the thought of having a crappy team more.

And then Mike Thomas hired Mick Cronin. I was among the many fans who booed Mick every time he came back to UC with Louisville. I booed because the recruiting was never as good after he left and I couldn't believe a UC grad would do that to his alma mater. And then I thought about why he left and whether I would have done the same thing in his situation. The answer was yes. Mick left because he wanted to be a head coach and Pitino has a better record of getting his assistants head coaching jobs than Huggins did. You have to look out for number 1 first. Did it hurt as a UC fan? Absolutely it did, but when the program was at it's lowest and no one wanted the job, Mick Cronin wanted it. He wanted it despite Pitino's advice that it wasn't a good job to take right now. He wanted to be the guy to bring UC back to where it should be on the national stage. How can you not love and appreciate the guy for that? As much as we all hate to admit it, UC is not a destination job for any coach except for Mick Cronin. If he does well, he could be our Jim Boeheim or Coach K. Mick won't ponder leaving UC for WVU like Huggins did at least once. He will be a lifer here. We may never find a football coach who feels so strongly about this university as Mick Cronin does. Why people don't want to give him every benefit of the doubt is unbelievable to me.

I will continue to give Mick every benefit of the doubt until he proves to me he is undeserving. I think he is a heck of a coach and his recruiting history speaks for himself. Players like playing for him and other coaches respect him for what he has done at UC. However this works out for him, I will always be appreciative for what he did for the program when it was at it's lowest. I don't think another coach could have done what he has done so far. I want UC to win every game by 30, whether it is against Huggins or not. It's nothing against Huggs but I just want to see domination every night out. I know that is an unrealistic expectation but there's no reason not to hope for it.

Sorry for the long winded response, but now you all know where I stand on this topic.

 

[MDW79]

Dont underestimate the fact that Mick doesnt get to take near the chances on kids now that Bob did.

Grades and off the court behavior are much more relevant now.

I know LL doesnt care but the BOT do and have not given Mick the ability to take on those chances so you can not say it doesnt matter.

I would say that is more than equaled out by the fact that he's able to recruit the kids to come play in the BE rather than the Metro/Great Midwest/CUSA. Both are totally valid arguments though.

(You're right for sure, when UCollege went bye-bye that definitely changed the type of player we can recruit. That along with the BE, is now why we have higher standards than Eggs.)

 

[bearcat jeff]

Love him, appreciate what he did, he became a sideshow in the end. For all the good he did, he's not bigger than the program. He's gone and I hope UC beats the hell out of him Saturday. Go Bearcats!

 

[JasonS]

What the... I'll deal with this in the morning. (Curious, how old are you? What type of program do you think Huggs inherited, that his entire career here can be trumped by a single Elite 8?)

See ya, tom.

One Elite 8 doesn't do it, that's for sure. Huggs' teams were awesome in the early to mid 90s and were a cheating Michigan team away from playing for a National Championship. Throw in the almost gimme of a NC in Kenyon's senior year before he broke his leg and we could be talking about Huggs having 2 NC. By the way, for as great of a coach as Tom Izzo is, he would still be looking for his first National Title if Kenyon didn't get hurt. Michigan State was an above average team that year who got hot at the right time and had a little luck along the way. I always wonder how Huggs and Izzo would be perceived if Kenyon stayed healthy.

 

[SlamJam]

What the... I'll deal with this in the morning. (Curious, how old are you? What type of program do you think Huggs inherited, that his entire career here can be trumped by a single Elite 8?)

See ya, tom.

I think having to rebuild in the Big East is unbelievably difficult- this program could have easily fallen and never gotten back- consider what Mick got and playing in the Big East. If he can go from what he started with to a legit elite 8 team IN THE BIG EAST- i will be impressed. It would be much easier, IMO, to do that in a smaller conference.

 

[SlamJam]

One Elite 8 doesn't do it, that's for sure. Huggs' teams were awesome in the early to mid 90s and were a cheating Michigan team away from playing for a National Championship. Throw in the almost gimme of a NC in Kenyon's senior year before he broke his leg and we could be talking about Huggs having 2 NC. By the way, for as great of a coach as Tom Izzo is, he would still be looking for his first National Title if Kenyon didn't get hurt. Michigan State was an above average team that year who got hot at the right time and had a little luck along the way. I always wonder how Huggs and Izzo would be perceived if Kenyon stayed healthy.

Id respond to this post more if I didnt see you question Izzo as a coach. You really got to be kidding me. 6 final fours in 12 years?...you cant question that. One of the greatest coaches of our era. Only one that is better is Coach K.

He gets more out of his kids then any other coach in the country and at the most important time in college sports- and thats really not up for debate.

 

[MDW79]

You know how you know Huggs will always be a huge part of this program... His name is mentioned and a thread is already on it's 3rd page after midnight. This thread may move faster than a game thread. Love or hate him, he made this team what it currently is. (Why we're in the BE, why Cronin has this job)

People need to move on, just as much as people need to not dismiss what the man did for this school. (Ralph!) You think we have a BCS football program if not for Huggs? Not a chance. We actually may have no football program at all. (Why I can never understand why people rip the guy and shit on all the quality kids he brought here)

 

[blackcattitude]

Even tho that is a false statement, ill play your game..

Tell that to Lance Stephenson, a guy Mick recruited and got. And before you say all this, Lance was in trouble while Mick was recruiting him. Surely didnt sway Micks opinion.

i'll see Lance and raise you Bud Mackey, Geron Johnson, Nick Aldridge, Darren Goodson, and Aaron Thomas off the top of my head

 

[JasonS]

Id respond to this post more if I didnt see you question Izzo as a coach. You really got to be kidding me. 6 final fours in 12 years?...you cant question that. One of the greatest coaches of our era. Only one that is better is Coach K.

I never said he wasn't a great coach but when you win a National Championship you are perceived completely differently in the coaching profession. Look at Jim Boeheim. He was always considered a great coach but you have to win a National Championship to be considered a hall of fame coach by many. Would Izzo have gotten the players he got after winning that National Championship if they never won it? Maybe. I don't know and neither does anyone else. That was my point. Huggs, up until last year's run, had a perception that he couldn't win in the tournament. It didn't matter that he went to a Final Four and 2 Elite 8s with UC. That was way in the past. There were too many second round eliminations to inferior teams. Had UC won that National Championship in 1999-2000, UC's recruiting would have been different. The perception of the program would have been different. The perception of Huggins would have been different. The paths of Tom Izzo and Bob Huggins would have been altered that year with a healthy Kenyon Martin. That doesn't mean that Tom Izzo isn't a great coach. Don't put those words in my mouth. All I am saying is that he would be perceived differently right now without that National Championship.

 

[MDW79]

Id respond to this post more if I didnt see you question Izzo as a coach. You really got to be kidding me. 6 final fours in 12 years?...you cant question that. One of the greatest coaches of our era. Only one that is better is Coach K.

I really will try to comment more tomorrow. (Hopped up on cold medicine and tired) We can delve into a friendly debate about the NCAA tourney being the end all be all of actual coaching success. (Matchups can be random, there's so much luck, Huggs had little to none in the draw, Izzo has had a whole a bunch.) I'm not saying HUGGS is a better coach, although I do think postseason success can be overstated. Kenyon doesn't break his leg, IMHO Izzo and Mateen Cleaves lose their NC. Those are the breaks, LITERALLY.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

i'll see Lance and raise you Bud Mackey, Geron Johnson, the crazy white boy (i'll edit this when i remember his name), Darren Goodson, and Aaron Thomas off the top of my head

Im not trying to say that Huggins didnt take chances in players with questionable backgrounds regarding school and the law.

But I say that basketball coaches recruit players first... That goes for Bob and Mick. The whole whoopla about Mick not recruiting this and that is simply false. He will recruit the best basketball talent available, aka Lance.

 

[MDW79]

i'll see Lance and raise you Bud Mackey, Geron Johnson, the crazy white boy (i'll edit this when i remember his name), Darren Goodson, and Aaron Thomas off the top of my head

Nick Aldridge. Careful though, Huggy recruited him before leaving. (Someone will come at you with that fact) But yeah, Cronin went after him at WCU of course too.

 

[JasonS]

I really will try to comment more tomorrow. (Hopped up on cold medicine and tired) We can delve into a friendly debate about the NCAA tourney being the end all be all of actual coaching success. (Matchups can be random, there's so much luck, Huggs had little to none in the draw, Izzo has had a whole a bunch.) I'm not saying HUGGS is a better coach, although I do think postseason success can be overstated. Kenyon doesn't break his leg, IMHO Izzo and Mateen Cleaves lose their NC. Those are the breaks, LITERALLY.

Yup. I agree and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone, outside of a Michigan State fan, who wouldn't admit that UC was as close to a slam dunk in that tournament as there is with a healthy Kenyon Martin.

 

[JasonS]

Im not trying to say that Huggins didnt take chances in players with questionable backgrounds regarding school and the law.

But I say that basketball coaches recruit players first... That goes for Bob and Mick. The whole whoopla about Mick not recruiting this and that is simply false. He will recruit the best basketball talent available, aka Lance.

The only difference though is that publicly the University has put it out there that they will not make exceptions and will not tolerate any player not living up to the standards of the university. Lance was a good student while here and did not get into any trouble while here. It was a calculated risk that Mike Thomas had to sign off on. Bob was able to take more risks because Bob Goin was a risk taker. Right or wrong, the perception nationally of the University of Cincinnati has changed for the better since Huggins has been gone.

 

[MDW79]

Im not trying to say that Huggins didnt take chances in players with questionable backgrounds regarding school and the law.

But I say that basketball coaches recruit players first... That goes for Bob and Mick. The whole whoopla about Mick not recruiting this and that is simply false. He will recruit the best basketball talent available, aka Lance.

Ding, ding, ding. It's as simple as this, (You're 100% right by the way) Cronin does not avoid anyone b/c of character issues, that Huggs wouldn't have. The only difference MAY be a test score. All the rest is red tape.

For UC fans to act as if we have such higher standards now is somewhat bs. It's almost as bs Xavier throwing out the same crap back in the day. If a kid can get the required test score, and can play ball, welcome aboard.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Right or wrong, the perception nationally of the University of Cincinnati has changed for the better since Huggins has been gone.

And so has the perception about UC being a powerhouse...

 

[JasonS]

And so has the perception about UC being a powerhouse...

I don't disagree with that though I hope we are on our way to getting back to that. It is better for the University, and all of us graduates, to have a good reputation around the country. You can win and be respected.

 

[SlamJam]

I really will try to comment more tomorrow. (Hopped up on cold medicine and tired) We can delve into a friendly debate about the NCAA tourney being the end all be all of actual coaching success. (Matchups can be random, there's so much luck, Huggs had little to none in the draw, Izzo has had a whole a bunch.) I'm not saying HUGGS is a better coach, although I do think postseason success can be overstated. Kenyon doesn't break his leg, IMHO Izzo and Mateen Cleaves lose their NC. Those are the breaks, LITERALLY.

While It isnt the end all be all--it is one of the most important things IMO. Tournament success shows you 1-make the tournament, 2- good enough to coach/game plan in the one day you have to prepare. 3- coach under the extreme pressure needed.

We will end up having to agree to disagree on the subject- Jason S said the perception of a coach is different if he is great but doesnt have a Championship and the same goes for tournament success IMO. How you coach when it matters most.

 

[MDW79]

I think having to rebuild in the Big East is unbelievably difficult- this program could have easily fallen and never gotten back- consider what Mick got and playing in the Big East. If he can go from what he started with to a legit elite 8 team IN THE BIG EAST- i will be impressed. It would be much easier, IMO, to do that in a smaller conference.

So taking a team, from the greatest conference ever assembled, to a single Elite Eight is more impressive than taking a team from the Great Midwest to a Final Four and an Elite Eight? (Not counting those other 12 years that mean nothing to you...) I could see how making the dance may be harder out of one conference, but how does that affect the tourney production once they get there? It seems you put so much stock in it. (Izzo >>>>>Huggs) Why not in this scenario? Double standard?

 

[MDW79]

While It isnt the end all be all--it is one of the most important things IMO. Tournament success shows you 1-make the tournament, 2- good enough to coach/game plan in the one day you have to prepare. 3- coach under the extreme pressure needed.

We will end up having to agree to disagree on the subject- Jason S said the perception of a coach is different if he is great but doesnt have a Championship and the same goes for tournament success IMO. How you coach when it matters most.

Honest question: Who's a better coach, Bob Huggins or Jerry Tarkanian? Who did more, with less? Who coached his kids up?

If Bob is so bad under pressure how did he take an underdog WVU team to the final four? Who's the better coach, Huggins or Calipari? Huggs right? Less talent, head to head win, under "extreme pressure"


So all in all, if Cronin makes ONE Elite Eight, he is on par with Huggs, and a better coach than Caliapri and Tarkanian at that point. (Taking into account a single year but not even the cheating) Am I following the logic?

Is Mike Davis a better coach than Skip Prosser was, Sean Miller is? Is the former coach from George Mason a single game removed from being on par with Thad Matta, while equal with some of the names above? Not trying to be a prick, just questioning that type of thinking. I think it's more than a valid debate.

Rollie Massimino > Pete Carril (Princeton) Is that how it works?