Xavier

[cincyguy13]

Until Broome shows he can take care of the ball and not make careless mistakes from being selfish I have no problem with Jenifer starting. Our best players are Clark, Cumberland and Evans and it's not close. Give me a guy that can maximize getting them the ball. Also Washington can be a prolific scorer in the right game. Broome is a better offensive player, better at taking the defense on one on two or three. Great, that's not team ball and leads to sloppy basketball as he has demonstrated some this year. Defensively they're both good and crafty in the press. One on one their both quick, strength goes to jenifer. But in the half court their defense is a wash. People get too hung up on a players isolated offensive abilities. This is a five on five game with zone defenses and double teams, etc. A player like Broome can be nullified easily, especially being a smaller player. Lance was the best individual offensive talent by far we've had and he was nullified in college ball and his team didn't make the tournament with UC's third leading scorer on it. Why is that? Selfish basketball doesn't win in college. Look at St. Johns under Lavin. They had numerous five star talents every year and were a .500 team. Why? Selfish play, not team ball.

It's really simple. You get the ball with a chance to score then you opponent does. You get one shot. Your job is to get the best shot possible. People are Broome over Jenifer are missing the point. We have four capable scorers to get good shots. Sure the pg is going to need to factor in and take and make and create shots. But bottom line, who runs a better offense, who puts his teammates in a better position to get that one best shot among five players on the floor? Thus far Jenifer has done that. When Broome or Jenifer shoots that means, Clark, Cumberland, Evans and Washington arent. He's not getting extra possessions or extra shots for the team. So yeah he might take more shots and score more, but is he taking better shots away from an Evans or a Clark? When he makes a lazy pass or over penetrates and doesn't pass the ball and causes a turnover, does his 2-3 or even 5 or 6 extra points make up for that when Jenifer is putting the shots in better players hands and not turning it over as much? I say no and thus far so has Mick. And he knows a ton more about basketball than anyone on this board.

With that said, sure Cane Broome is the better talent and sure we'll be better off if he can get his stuff together and run this team the right way. But don't be fooled into thinking he's that player right now. Mick is doing the right thing and not rewarding him simply for having more talent.

Cane had 16pts 5 ast 2 turnovers today. Jj had 4-4-0. Not much of a debate today but I agree cane has to keep it up

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Well we only had 1 meltdown on the board. Glad everyone else is staying level-headed. I'm pissed that we lost, but it's not going to ruin my day. Go Cats!

 

[MacBearcat]

What did Macura do? I've seen several ppl post about him. I didn't see what he did? Did he say something after the game?

 

[cincrulz11]

What did Macura do? I've seen several ppl post about him. I didn't see what he did? Did he say something after the game?

Told mick to F off 3 times

 

[Mcginnjw]

Has the postgame for UC been posted?

 

[juckerrules]

Cane had 16pts 5 ast 2 turnovers today. Jj had 4-4-0. Not much of a debate today but I agree cane has to keep it up

He also played 10 more minutes & had 4 fouls, but I still like him in the game.

The biggest problem by far was no Kyle Washington....zip

 

[UCalum08]

Told mick to F off 3 times

But it's okay because Lance Stephenson called Mack the n word and told him to eff off.... Gtfo Mack. He is going to bring up an incident from how long ago hahahaha Mack is a piece of shit.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Cane had 16pts 5 ast 2 turnovers today. Jj had 4-4-0. Not much of a debate today but I agree cane has to keep it up

Cane's talent was the exact spark we needed to try and stay in the game. Xavier wasn't ready for him and he was able to come in and score when no one else could.

I'm not trying to dog Broome out. My point is just we get one shot per possession and there's five players on the floor to get that shot. Ideally the ball should go into the paint and let Clark and Washington score down low or kick out to open shooters. You dribble penetrate in transition, when the defense is sleeping or when you can't get the ball inside from passing. Obviously you need to be able to do more than one thing to keep defenses honest, but in these scenarios is where having a crafty scoring pg makes a difference. And honestly Jenifer has shown the ability to make these plays, though he's not as dynamic as Broome. Being honest, Cumberland and maybe Evans are better talents at creating their own shots, so if that's your game plan they can do that. I just know that in Micks system and with our offensive weapons, Mick is going to lean towards the player who makes less mistakes and right now that is Jenifer. Broome will get his minutes and his chance to show his abilities. Jenifer I think we are getting the most of his abilities and Broome I think has room to improve, so hopefully he gets better and plays smarter and is the player we need him to be cause obviously his scoring ability can be a difference maker all other things being even.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Yeah Mick just needs to keep his mouth shut and be the adult. Complain to the refs if you want, but going public complaining about a player cussing you out after a game just makes him look whiny. If this is a conference game and you're trying to influence future games that's one thing, but complaining on air just comes across as petty to me.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

The real question is who makes the team better? If Cane runs the show and averages 20 per night and the team scores 73 a night and conversely Jenifer runs the show and scores 8 per night but the team scores 80, who's the better option? Obviously this is a hypothetical and not necessarily even reality, but this is what Mick tries to figure out. At the end of the day I trust Mick to run this team. People hated Kevin Johnson but the other team's ability to score when he was on the floor and not was night and day. Some players worth isn't measured in stats. Mick knows this and based on our ability to win vs. our talent level, he's more than shown he understands the team concept.

 

[Bearcatboy]

Show your work... Or stop pulling #'s out of your butt like they're facts

Go back and look at the schedules from the bearcats past years easy to see I'm right

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

First he hadn’t really out played him. Cane had turned the ball over more but the overall game went to cane.


Second it was clear who the better player was. So it’s on mick to get Broome in with the other 4 so they can start to gel. If we had no big games before conference play then this approach could at least be justifiable.


That didn’t cost us the game, but I sure as hell would prefer my best 5 start and play the most on the road in a big game. Especially vs a team known for extremely hit starts and you know you can’t get behind double digits early (which mick specifically said this week)

first he has out played him. Anyone watching the previous games will tell you that. Also look at the statistics. Have no idea what your basing your opinion on.

We were out rebounded 44-27.

They hit 47 % to our 28 % from 3

They turned it over 16 times to our 8.

Broome had a nice game but not starting him had little to do with how we boarded or guarded.

They also shot 30 FT's to our 16.

Broome also played 27 minutes to JJ' s 17

I will also throw this in Kanter a sub outscored Washington and Clark by himself. Washington contributed nothing in 14 minutes. JJ was 2-5 from the field with 0 TO's and 4 assist in 17 minutes.

 

[RDCat]

Until Broome shows he can take care of the ball and not make careless mistakes from being selfish I have no problem with Jenifer starting. Our best players are Clark, Cumberland and Evans and it's not close. Give me a guy that can maximize getting them the ball. Also Washington can be a prolific scorer in the right game. Broome is a better offensive player, better at taking the defense on one on two or three. Great, that's not team ball and leads to sloppy basketball as he has demonstrated some this year. Defensively they're both good and crafty in the press. One on one their both quick, strength goes to jenifer. But in the half court their defense is a wash. People get too hung up on a players isolated offensive abilities. This is a five on five game with zone defenses and double teams, etc. A player like Broome can be nullified easily, especially being a smaller player. Lance was the best individual offensive talent by far we've had and he was nullified in college ball and his team didn't make the tournament with UC's third leading scorer on it. Why is that? Selfish basketball doesn't win in college. Look at St. Johns under Lavin. They had numerous five star talents every year and were a .500 team. Why? Selfish play, not team ball.

It's really simple. You get the ball with a chance to score then you opponent does. You get one shot. Your job is to get the best shot possible. People are Broome over Jenifer are missing the point. We have four capable scorers to get good shots. Sure the pg is going to need to factor in and take and make and create shots. But bottom line, who runs a better offense, who puts his teammates in a better position to get that one best shot among five players on the floor? Thus far Jenifer has done that. When Broome or Jenifer shoots that means, Clark, Cumberland, Evans and Washington arent. He's not getting extra possessions or extra shots for the team. So yeah he might take more shots and score more, but is he taking better shots away from an Evans or a Clark? When he makes a lazy pass or over penetrates and doesn't pass the ball and causes a turnover, does his 2-3 or even 5 or 6 extra points make up for that when Jenifer is putting the shots in better players hands and not turning it over as much? I say no and thus far so has Mick. And he knows a ton more about basketball than anyone on this board.

With that said, sure Cane Broome is the better talent and sure we'll be better off if he can get his stuff together and run this team the right way. But don't be fooled into thinking he's that player right now. Mick is doing the right thing and not rewarding him simply for having more talent.

Jenifer has never been a great team player. He thinks he shoots like Bluitt and definitely launches far too many 3s. Even though he might not throw the ball to the other team, he definitely shoots the ball to the other team. I don't think any of us are ever comfortable when he launches a three. I like him, but definitely not as a starter.

 

[RDCat]

first he has out played him. Anyone watching the game will tell you that. Also look at the statistics. Have no idea what your basing your opinion on.

We were out rebounded 44-27.

They hit 47 % to our 28 % from 3

They turned it over 16 times to our 8.

Broome had a nice game but not starting him had little to do with how we boarded or guarded.

Broome is a better overall shooter 50% to 44%, slightly lower on FTs, 5 more rebounds than Jenifer in 21 less minutes. Jenifer has launched 8 more threes than Cane, not far behind Evans and Cumberland even though those two have played a lot more minutes, Cane has the same number of assists in 21 less minutes, Cane has 12 more turnovers....probably because he is not settling for threes and trying to get the ball inside like a point guard is supposed to do, Cane has tripled Jenifer in steals in 21 less minutes, Cane is outscoring Jenifer in 21 less minutes. How exactly is Jenifer outplaying him?

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Jenifer has never been a great team player. He thinks he shoots like Bluitt and definitely launches far too many 3s. Even though he might not throw the ball to the other team, he definitely shoots the ball to the other team. I don't think any of us are ever comfortable when he launches a three. I like him, but definitely not as a starter.

I can agree with that. I'm not necessarily trying to hype Jenifer up. With that being said though, there was a reason he was the #1 rated pg at one point in his younger days and also a reason Cane Broome landed at Sacred Heart. I won't pretend to know eithers full recruiting or qualifying statuses just making a point that Cane Broome is not the second coming. Jenifer is as flashy passing the ball in highlights as Cane can be taking on a defense by himself. Honestly I haven't seen much of either in actual play though. My only point is Cane early on made selfish plays that led to quick points the other way. Jenifer as a freshman was horrible at taking quick shots . He corrected that. He doesn't throw the ball away and doesn't take shots when the team isn't set in order to either rebound or at least be ready to transition to defense. This is important. And while I agree I cringe when he shoots more so than Broome or many other players his stats show and support he isn't a liability on offense. His percentages, outside of ft's are fine. Not great, but fine. Bottom line I agree Jenifer isn't the pg you'd pick to run a top ten team deep into March, but Broome hasn't shown me he is either. What's going to cause us to lose games at this point is bad offense, turnovers and not rebounding. Take rebounding out of the equation for pg purposes and the other two Jenifer has done less to hurt us than Cane has. That's why he won the starting job. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Cane start vs. Florida and if not I'd hope at some point he wins it back. But to do so, it won't be by blind offensive talent it will be because he protects the ball and doesn't do dumb things with ball.

 

[waterhead]

first he has out played him. Anyone watching the previous games will tell you that. Also look at the statistics. Have no idea what your basing your opinion on.

We were out rebounded 44-27.

They hit 47 % to our 28 % from 3

They turned it over 16 times to our 8.

Broome had a nice game but not starting him had little to do with how we boarded or guarded.

They also shot 30 FT's to our 16.

Broome also played 27 minutes to JJ' s 17

I will also throw this in Kanter a sub outscored Washington and Clark by himself. Washington contributed nothing in 14 minutes. JJ was 2-5 from the field with 0 TO's and 4 assist in 17 minutes.

A lot of things to say about this game but I would point to this above. The problem is it's hard to rebound missed 3's and when the other team is getting in the lane we need to help D and then we are out of position. We didn't want the ball bad enough...plain and simple.

We need to do more of what they did in this game. Ughhh

We got beat by a better team THIS DAY...but we can learn from it. If nothing else I think Evans learned he can damn near shoot from anywhere and make it with a hand in his face. He looked GREAT coming down the stretch trying to make something happen. I have not seen Evans look like that EVER! Cane made some beautiful plays but we need him distributing as well when he is trying to make something happen. He won't win a game 1 on 5.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Broome is a better overall shooter 50% to 44%, slightly lower on FTs, 5 more rebounds than Jenifer in 21 less minutes. Jenifer has launched 8 more threes than Cane, not far behind Evans and Cumberland even though those two have played a lot more minutes, Cane has the same number of assists in 21 less minutes, Cane has 12 more turnovers....probably because he is not settling for threes and trying to get the ball inside like a point guard is supposed to do, Cane has tripled Jenifer in steals in 21 less minutes, Cane is outscoring Jenifer in 21 less minutes. How exactly is Jenifer outplaying him?

TO's. Has nothing to do with settling for 3's. He has been careless with the ball and the offense had run better with JJ at the helm. I'm glad Broome stepped up his game today but not getting the start is not what beat us. Look at the stats of the game. The killed us on the glass and shot lights out. Washington and Clark were outscored by Kanter. We were out played in all aspects. Are you really trying to tell me the difference in the game was Broome not starting even though he got 10 more minutes in the game? Your making my head hurt with this logic.also please spare me the better start arguement. We were killed on the glass and they shot almost 50% from 3 ants had 30 FT's. Yea only if Broome would have started. LMBO!! Do you know when Broome came into the game?

 

[david aka the TYZ]

One reason we got out rebounded was seemingly the entire first half they made their shots and we didn't. In theory, rebounds should go to the defense because they're in the position to rebound. You stay between your man and the basket, shot goes up, you turn around and box out. Again, this is in theory as our boxing out has left a little to be desired. But when they make their shots, there's no rebounds to be had. When we miss, there's plenty for them to have. By games end the shooting evened out more as did the offensive rebounds, I think 9-8 in their favor, but the first half had to be atrocious. Credit Xavier for out executing us and it's Micks job to get this corrected.

 

[RDCat]

TO's. Has nothing to do with settling for 3's. He has been careless with the ball and the offense had run better with JJ at the helm. I'm glad Broome stepped up his game today but not getting the start is not what beat us. Look at the stats of the game. The killed us on the glass and shot lights out. Washington and Clark were outscored by Kanter. We were out played in all aspects. Are you really trying to tell me the difference in the game was Broome not starting even though he got 10 more minutes in the game? Your making my head hurt with this logic.also please spare me the better start arguement. We were killed on the glass and they shot almost 50% from 3 ants had 30 FT's. Yea only if Broome would have started. LMBO!! Do you know when Broome came into the game?

Listen, LYFBO all you want. Any knowledgeable basketball person on the planet can look at those two players and figure out which one should be the starter. I never said that starting him cost us the game, I did say that he got us off to a bad start. Mick's performance in big games like these speaks for itself. He definitely coaches way differently in these games, and that has been posted here many times. Keeping Washington on the bench for 26 minutes is like benching Johnny Bench in the 3rd inning for three straight passed balls and 2 strikeouts. Yes, he was sucking, but he can still get hot just like Cumberland and Evans did and we certainly needed his offense to get back in the game.....just like Johnny Bench could do with one swing of the bat. We were an uninspired and poorly prepared team today, and we know whose fault that is!

 

[cincrulz11]

One reason we got out rebounded was seemingly the entire first half they made their shots and we didn't. In theory, rebounds should go to the defense because they're in the position to rebound. You stay between your man and the basket, shot goes up, you turn around and box out. Again, this is in theory as our boxing out has left a little to be desired. But when they make their shots, there's no rebounds to be had. When we miss, there's plenty for them to have. By games end the shooting evened out more as did the offensive rebounds, I think 9-8 in their favor, but the first half had to be atrocious. Credit Xavier for out executing us and it's Micks job to get this corrected.

They rebounded over 40% of their misses and we rebounded under 30% of ours. Effort and determination.