Our Offense

[bearcat jeff]

I will say this though, sports are about execution. There is a definitive difference in this offense when they move and pass. I agree Mick's scheme seems generic, but the players execution is very poor.

 

[ready2go]

I will say this though, sports are about execution. There is a definitive difference in this offense when they move and pass. I agree Mick's scheme seems generic, but the players execution is very poor.

Then he needs to recruit guys who arent offensively challenged. The big over Micks Tenure have been defense first, except Gates who thought he was Michael Jordan and rarely worked inside the paint. Our pg has never been able to push or take it to the rim. We dont have a pure shooter who can extend the defense consistently. We just dont have any playmakers and in an offense where you dont rely on ball movement, screens, give and go, inside outside, then you need playmakers. Maybe Kila but look what happens when all the pressure is on you....

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Jeff you hit on a lot of things I have been thinking during the last 3-4 games.

Our leadership is lacking. You never see a vet get in anyone's face and tell them to set a pick or not shoot 3's and drive to the bucket.

I was also thinking before yesterday's game that we would see a change in the starting 5. IDK, something, anything to change up the slow starts esp. with the column in yesterday's paper thought something was imminent. Maybe Rubles/Nyarsuk starting and CM and JJ to bench.

Another red flag to me are the comments that Cash made after the game saying they went through the motions. Through Cash's career here I think I have read those same words after a game at least 5-6 times. Cronin also states that our team gets overconfident and I have heard that a lot in the 7 years he has been here. Seems like the same things come up every year.

 

[Bearcat04]

Another red flag to me are the comments that Cash made after the game saying they went through the motions. Through Cash's career here I think I have read those same words after a game at least 5-6 times. Cronin also states that our team gets overconfident and I have heard that a lot in the 7 years he has been here. Seems like the same things come up every year.

Every team goes through this. That's why there are so many upsets in college basketball. The problem for us is that we rely on playing harder than our opponents because we aren't always the most talented team on the floor. When we do it consistently we can give anyone a tough game. When we start believing the press clippings and stop doing the little things that got us there is when we get in trouble.

As far the offense goes, my biggest issue is that far too often we let the defense dictate things. If teams are going to overplay and sell out on the perimeter then find a way to make them pay for that aggressiveness, whether it be back cuts or driving strong and making guys play great defense with their feet. How we don't get to the FT more often with 4 perimeter players is mind boggling.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

Every team goes through this. That's why there are so many upsets in college basketball. The problem for us is that we rely on playing harder than our opponents because we aren't always the most talented team on the floor. When we do it consistently we can give anyone a tough game. When we start believing the press clippings and stop doing the little things that got us there is when we get in trouble.

As far the offense goes, my biggest issue is that far too often we let the defense dictate things. If teams are going to overplay and sell out on the perimeter then find a way to make them pay for that aggressiveness, whether it be back cuts or driving strong and making guys play great defense with their feet. How we don't get to the FT more often with 4 perimeter players is mind boggling.

We don't go to the Free Throw line much because we are not taking the ball to the hoop much or getting our big guys many shots from close. When we do get our big guys shots, they put it up like pansies and don't take it up strong to fight through contact or get fouled.

 

[clo]

I will say this though, sports are about execution. There is a definitive difference in this offense when they move and pass. I agree Mick's scheme seems generic, but the players execution is very poor.

Agree totally. When they run the baseline hard, and cut with a purpose the offense looks decent. When they just jog to a point and pass around the perimiter, which happens way too much, the offense is atrocious. Mick needs to get the offensives intensity to match that of the defenses.

 

[clo]

The Cats pass the ball to the bigs? All they do is stand around and wait to receive a toss, then pass it right back to a guard.

At least the ball would actually make it inside the three point line before they launch a three. Maybe someone would even cut to the basket.

 

[UCBearcats]

I believed in the beginning of the season that we would struggle in the games where we weren't hitting our shots. I just didn't think we'd have so many games strung together in a row where no one was hitting their shots.

St. John's took us out of our game by extending pressure on us and not allowing us to run in transition. If we weren't forcing turnovers we weren't getting out in transition during that game. It's concerning that all a team has to do to take away our biggest offensive threat is extend their defense.

Our halfcourt offense continues to be a complete debacle. I go to these games and I want to pull out my hair when I watch this team on offense. I can understand that our big men aren't very skilled offensively and that's fine but how can we not get consistently open shots for our very skilled trio of guards? We've got teams playing zone defense on us and we struggle at times to get open looks at 3, it's unbelievable. We never set off ball screens, we never run back door cuts, we NEVER get the ball underneath to a somewhat uncovered big man. This offense is horrible and if it wasn't for Cashmere Wright this team would be screwed right now. The crazy thing about Cash is every look he gets he has to create for himself. He has to dribble himself into open looks or he isn't getting any, usually he's just chucking from beyond NBA range because that's the only place on the floor that he can get open. Thankfully the guy is a stud and he knocks down the deep 3's with regularity.

Mick got out-gameplanned in the SJU game. Lavin took away our offensive tempo and had his guys ready to run the floor when SJU had the ball. Mick's thing has been defense and rebounding and he's very very good at it. His thing has never been offense and he continues to be very very bad at it.

I wanted Mick fired, I admit, I was wrong. Mick has done a very good job of putting together his team and getting these guys to where they are today. I'm not going to freak out because we lost to SJU at home, this is just what Mick's teams do. They are very inconsistent and a lot of the games look sloppy because they don't know how to play offense. We win with D and toughness and when you do that it's not always pretty. Just make sure that if you support Mick you're also willing to point out his weaknesses. None of this players are being lazy crap, we heard the same stuff when Gates was here and now he's gone and people still want to play that card. Mick isn't an offensive guy, he is what he is and he's found a way to have more success than failure. Big game tonight, under Mick this is the type of game we usually find a way to win, so let's get this one at home.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

Unfortunately, this thread is still largely relevant and not for good reasons. I just read this

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130207/SPT0101/302070126/Lack-offense-concern-UC

Mick's quotes are:

“Shooting percentage to me is a direct reflection of passing and that’s been a struggle for us all year,” Cronin said. “In our last five games, our leading assist total guys are Justin Jackson, Titus Rubles and JaQuon Parker.”

“It’s a balancing act as a coach with your best players,” Cronin said. “You want them to be aggressive but at the same time they’ve got to understand there’s shots that you can’t take early in the clock. You can’t take contested threes early in the clock and when you get doubled you’ve got to pass the ball. That’s simple basketball.”

“We’ve got to do a better job of doing things to get each other open,” Cronin said, “whether it’s the screen or the pass, and understand the importance of that, not relying on guys to save the day. It’s been our Achilles heel all year.”

On the whole, I have come to love Mick. I'm glad he's here and he has brought the program back from a terrible state. But the offensive gameplan this year absolutely befuddles me. His last quote indicating that they've got to do a better job of doing things to get each other open is confusing as sh*t. They simply don't set off-ball screens. Either that's part of the gameplan or his players aren't listening. How else are they going to get players open? Dribble drive? If we need to get our players open better, how come they don't screen for each other (aside from the on-ball screen)?

Also, in the first quote, he says passing has been a struggle all year...of course it has in this offense that features the dribble-weave perimeter thing with bigs rolling to the basket that we dont pass to (and can't finish that well anyway). That doesn't facilitate passing. It facilitates lots of dribbling with guys that can't get it in the paint consistently and as a result, find themselves forcing 3's and/or finding themselves with their backs against the shot clock frequently. I just don't get it. I can't guess anymore with this thing. I see no evolution and we're running an offense that to me, doesn't compliment our team's strengths (SK and Cash open, catch and shoot 3's; Park and Rubles driving; oops to Mbodj/JJ....even running teams off the court because of our speed/conditioning). We're not doing any of that.

 

[Bearcat04]

Jay Bilas weighed in on UC's offense while recently talking to Mo Egger. Dan Hoard had a few quotes from his recent column:

"I think that Cincinnati is one of the Top 20 teams in the country and they grade out that way from an efficiency standpoint," Bilas recently told Mo Egger on ESPN 1530. "Defense is primarily carrying it for them. Cincinnati is an excellent defensive team and a really good rebounding team. Where the Bearcats can get into trouble is when they turn the ball over."

"Sean Kilpatrick and Cashmere Wright are their two best offensive players, but JaQuon Parker does a terrific job when he gets the ball in the right spots," Bilas told Egger. "A lot of basketball comes down to ball movement and player movement. We can sit and talk about running this play or that play but it's not plays - it's players. I know that Mick Cronin tells his guys, 'Be a player, don't just run the play.' The plays that he runs are all really well-designed."

 

[UCalum08]

I usually love Cronin's comments but these quotes are complete asinine. It clearly seems to me IMO our offense this year will not get better and he has zero clue on how to fix this offense. Cronin always seems to reference Duke a lot, they score 58 in the first half tonight, maybe he should take some notes.

It seems to me this so called offense Cronin has implemented has set his team up to fail. There is no structure or fluid motion and it has made our players look and become extremely complacent. Our offense is so basic I wouldn't even call it an offense. It looks like watching Deveroes summer league. The reason our scoring in the BE has been dismal is because quality teams can easily scout us and shut us down. Its not rocket science.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

It's not rocket science. Smother SK. Cover Cash tight and others help on Cash (except for the guy covering SK). Make the rest of the team beat us. J Park will get his hard earned 9-13 points. The others will struggle.

 

[UCalum08]

I've said before this team is way to dependent on cash and sk which has resulted in no development from anyone else. Bilas did make a nice point about our turnovers. There have been a good amount of games where we have high double digit turnovers. Mix that in with bad shot selection and other bone head things our players do its not a good combo sometimes.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Jay Bilas weighed in on UC's offense while recently talking to Mo Egger. Dan Hoard had a few quotes from his recent column:

"I think that Cincinnati is one of the Top 20 teams in the country and they grade out that way from an efficiency standpoint," Bilas recently told Mo Egger on ESPN 1530. "Defense is primarily carrying it for them. Cincinnati is an excellent defensive team and a really good rebounding team. Where the Bearcats can get into trouble is when they turn the ball over."

"Sean Kilpatrick and Cashmere Wright are their two best offensive players, but JaQuon Parker does a terrific job when he gets the ball in the right spots," Bilas told Egger. "A lot of basketball comes down to ball movement and player movement. We can sit and talk about running this play or that play but it's not plays - it's players. I know that Mick Cronin tells his guys, 'Be a player, don't just run the play.' The plays that he runs are all really well-designed."

Which plays would those be? The ones where Cash dribbles into the corner to hand off to SK and let SK take his man one on one? Most of the time they don't run plays. It's a dribble drive offense and they don't have players that want to drive and cannot dribble. If that doesn't work they go straight to a high pick and roll and neither the picker knows how to set a pick and the ball handler doesn't know how to use the pick....None of that is well designed.

 

[UCalum08]

Our players don't have the IQ to run an efficient motion offense. If they haven't learned yet they def won't for the rest of the season. I think you have to be frustrated with both coaches and players in regards to our poor offense.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

Which plays would those be? The ones where Cash dribbles into the corner to hand off to SK and let SK take his man one on one? Most of the time they don't run plays. It's a dribble drive offense and they don't have players that want to drive and cannot dribble. If that doesn't work they go straight to a high pick and roll and neither the picker knows how to set a pick and the ball handler doesn't know how to use the pick....None of that is well designed.

And if the defender's switch on a pick and roll and the driver can't get to the hoop (which usually happens), we haven't had an answer.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

Further explanation from Mick on the offensive breakdown

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2013/02/07/cronin-youve-got-to-trust-your-teammates/

I agree that it is on both Mick and the players. The system is not a good one, and the players are not executing.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Further explanation from Mick on the offensive breakdown

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2013/02/07/cronin-youve-got-to-trust-your-teammates/

I agree that it is on both Mick and the players. The system is not a good one, and the players are not executing.

Mick knows basketball, there is no question about it. What I question most is his ability to get them to listen to what he preaches (though I don't like his offensive philosophy). They also tend to be flat to start a lot of games, especially when it's against lower competition. I think a lot of that has to do with the coaches preparations.

 

[Bearcat04]

Which plays would those be? The ones where Cash dribbles into the corner to hand off to SK and let SK take his man one on one? Most of the time they don't run plays. It's a dribble drive offense and they don't have players that want to drive and cannot dribble. If that doesn't work they go straight to a high pick and roll and neither the picker knows how to set a pick and the ball handler doesn't know how to use the pick....None of that is well designed.

When it comes to breaking down college basketball I'll easily defer to Jay Bilas over anyone on a message board. He's called multiple games this year. He's been to practice and the guy watches a ton of film. Just because it's not being executed at a high-level doesn't mean it isn't well designed.

 

[Bearcat22]

When it comes to breaking down college basketball I'll easily defer to Jay Bilas over anyone on a message board. He's called multiple games this year. He's been to practice and the guy watches a ton of film. Just because it's not being executed at a high-level doesn't mean it isn't well designed.

I agree, I think Bilas usually offers really good and thoughtful insight. Digger on the other hand...I'm only going to him if I'm purchasing a highlighter or in need of advanced lessons on how to be a pompous D-bag.

Having a really well designed offense though doesn't help if the players can't execute it. This could go back to the basketball IQ debate that occured here recently or the need for a player or two that can create their own offense when the scheme breaks down.