bearcat jeff
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I don't agree with you. Many of those second round losses were unexcusable.
The Official Bob Huggins Thread
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babcat
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So is this a by-product of being in C-USA, or that Huggins failed to adequately prepare his team?
BearcatAlum1
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bearcat jeff
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I think it was largely due to playing in CUSA as well.
babcat
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I would agree. Only Louisville and Memphis are ringing a bell to me as far as the other successful C-USA teams go. Possibly Southern Mississippi as well.
bearcat jeff
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Marquette made a final four run with Dwayne Wade.
MDW79
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That mixed with some horrible luck as well. I'm sorry, anybody who says those teams weren't not just a little unlucky is not being honest.
Some teams have luck, some teams don't have any luck, and some teams have bad luck.
Kenyon breaking is leg bad luck. (Not too mention it was criminal they seeded as a 2 that year, but that's an entirely different debate. That teamed earned a 1 seed, only to get the last 2 and draw the 46-1 should have been a 4 seed Tulsa in the 2nd round)
Having someone bank in a 3 at the buzzer on a tipped shot is bad luck.
Getting tackled and being called for traveling is bad luck.
If none of those thing happen (Chances are they shouldn't have) no on is ever talking about how 2nd round blowups. They're talking about something entirely different.
Someone will say, shit happens, and they're right. But we were never the team to be making that freak shot in March to win. That's why I don't think it's the end all be all. Those teams, if the games we played 100 times, we're still usually one of the top 15 teams in the country. And that's nothing to scoff at.
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"Who gives a shit about elite 8's?!?!"
"say what you want about his tournament success, the guy did get us a final four and an elite 8"
Ok...make up your mind.
If he was producing a national contender once every 4 years then you have to agree he was an awful tournament coach.
bearcat jeff
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Dude things happen all the time you just have to deal with it. it happens throughout the tournament not just to one team. That's a great excuse, "we could have won the title 10 times if a break or two had gone our way. C'mon, man!
So being in the top 25 in both polls once in a season determines National Powerhouse? I usually think a top 10 team with a shot at the NC is powerhouse...and not just one year, sustained shots at NC=powerhouse.
Under your definition there are a solid 40 powerhouses a year. Butler from last year, SDSU and BYU are all powerhouse teams. (though it was obvious Butler was a national championship caliber team- cant be argued. You dont miss a buzzer beater to win it all an not be considered a top 5 team)
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babcat
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Forgot about Marquette. Good call.
MDW79
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Uh Marquette went to a Final Four, and I believe beat UK twice in a 3 year span. I don't remember Southern Miss ever doing much though. Maybe my memory is fading on them.
MDW79
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That's not what I'm saying at all. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said we'd win 10 titles, but of course the easy thing to do in a debate is to overemphasize a stance, so it's easier to make it seem illogical. (When did I say we'd win 10 titles?)
Refer back to what I was responding to. Was the 2nd round losses due to Huggs inability to prepare his team, or CUSA. I simply added that there was some bad luck as well. Do you disagree? Me saying that bad luck did indeed contribute to some early exits is entirely different than me saying we should have won 10 titles. Please do not confuse the two.
bearcat jeff
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I totally understand what you're saying. The point is if you blame luck for the failure to advance, credit luck for the times you advanced. That's a very weak foundation to stand on. If luck played a part in failure it played a part in winning. That's why you hear championship coaches say all the time, "Yeah we're champs. We just got lucky."...NOT. It's a lame excuse that losers use. You don't use the lucky excuse when you win, don't pull the card when you lose.
MDW79
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Fwiw, I think UAB and Charlotte both made Sweet 16's too. One of Q Richardson Depaul teams landed a decent seed as well.
And going way back to the GW, I think the Tulane team with Gerald Honeycut was a very solid, ranked team.
CUSA was not a bad league. It's NOWEHERE near the BE, but I do have to question anyone who tries to act like we played in the A10. CUSA put, I believe 5 teams in one year. Really think about that for a sec. The record was 7 up until '06. There were many years where CUSA was better than at least 2 of the BCS conferences. And it's not as all out teams we're drawing mid major 8-12 seeds either. You had 3 teams some years all in top 4 seeds. That league was no joke.
The BE = toughest league ever, without a doubt. I just don't get why people go out of the way to unfairly trash a pretty damn solid league.
And going way back to the GW, I think the Tulane team with Gerald Honeycut was a very solid, ranked team.
CUSA was not a bad league. It's NOWEHERE near the BE, but I do have to question anyone who tries to act like we played in the A10. CUSA put, I believe 5 teams in one year. Really think about that for a sec. The record was 7 up until '06. There were many years where CUSA was better than at least 2 of the BCS conferences. And it's not as all out teams we're drawing mid major 8-12 seeds either. You had 3 teams some years all in top 4 seeds. That league was no joke.
The BE = toughest league ever, without a doubt. I just don't get why people go out of the way to unfairly trash a pretty damn solid league.
MDW79
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I was only using it there to explain possible reasons for the under-performing in the 2nd round, which was what another poster asked. I do think it is valid to bring up in explaining at least some of day 2 losses. And, I didn't ask the question, I only offered my opinion.
Again, we're talking 2nd round, not why didn't make the final four. And as far as having good luck to explain wins as easy as bad luck to explain losses, I don't recall us ever having that extreme side of luck in the good sense. (Did we ever win on a 30 foot bank?)
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bearcat jeff
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I'm not attacking you MDW, just saying that's a very unstable, steep, slippery slope. I just have a hard time with people that use that logic in a one sided way. Much like the people that say if Kenyon hadn't got hurt we'd have a recent title. Nobody knows that!! Yes they would have been co-favoites with MSU, but it wasn't a given.
Kingsley Court
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And with all the "bad Luck" MDW is talking about, I think it isn't as much as a given as many people think it was.
And, I don't want to go back and find it, but to you MDW, I don't think Purdue is a contender at all for a championship.
MDW79
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Totally agree. But I also think it is more than unfair to just gloss over the fact the he did indeed break his leg, and simply chalk it up to another typical 2nd round loss too.
I see many people do that,(not necessarily you) and give that team, and Coach Huggins, literally zero credit. I don't know if that team would have won it all, but I do know that is one of the best teams in recent memory. I still have my old program from when I was in school and occasionally I'll look at it. If you look at that roster, it's absolutely amazing how good they were. I'm going off topic a little bit but think of this team:
Kenyon Martin - POY, DPOY, 1st Overall Pick SENIOR
D'Marr Johnson - McDAA, 6th Overall pick All-Frosh (How many teams have 2 lottery picks, when one was #1...Other than UK last year
Pete Mickael - 1st Team CUSA, Honorable Mention AA, High-Pro Level Player SENIOR
Steve Logan - Future POY (How many teams have two POY on the same roster?) High Pro Level Player
Satterfield - McDAA, NBA Caliber but High Pro Level Player
Jermain Tate - Solid, Pro Level Player (He averages 15+ easily for just about any other team, think he averaged 10+ at OSU as a Frosh) SENIOR
Fletcher - Pro Level Player SENIOR
Little - Pro Level Player
Stokes - Low Pro Level Player
Fwiw, High pro level = NBDL and/ major europe league, long career. (Most teams only have a couple of these guys) Pro level = Europe contact, decent career. low level, means made money at some point and that's it.
I know I'm going off a little here. But I only mention this b/c it infuriates me when people just dismiss this. Honestly, no joke, I personally think this is one of the 10 best rosters assembled in all of college basketball, in the last 25 years. I would put that team healthy up there in that top 10 somewhere, I really would. The overall talent, depth, and experience is just staggering. For anybody that was around to see this team, it may be the best team you ever see on the 5/3rd court.
So, I just get frustrated when I see 2nd round loss next to 00 without any further detail. And i get frustrated when I hear Huggs teams didn't do anything after 96.
Sorry for length of this, hope somebody got something out of it.
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TheLivingLegend
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UC is not a powerhouse right now. They were when Bob Huggins coached here.
