The problem is we need him at the 3. If we are going to play this super slow ball, Shaq doesn't fit into that system. He has no idea about spacing.
Does anybody remember the play against xavier where we appeared to have a corner 3 play set up for Cobb? We swing the ball over to the weak side but Shaq set up nearly right on top of Cobb allowing 1 defender to guard them both. If he stands where he's supposed to, sliding around 5-10 around the arc, Cobb gets the open shot. Instead he basically hands it off to Cobb and we get stuck in the corner.
Another reason why Clark could be valuable as a stretch 4.
He's certainly being developed to become stretch 4, is right guy doing the developing is real questionNo doubt it would be valuable, my point was he can still be a great college player without having to develop it (but yes the greed in me would like to see him do it).
Jenifer/Caupain/Evans could be interesting at times. I want DeBerry to play more too. And since he doesn't pass well we could use Shaq as the 4 in those situations to keep the paint clear. I do agree that Shaq has no concept of spacing on the perimeter though. Another reason why Clark could be valuable as a stretch 4.
No doubt it would be valuable, my point was he can still be a great college player without having to develop it (but yes the greed in me would like to see him do it).
I'm not even sure that Jenifer is a good option anymore. When he was playing, he seemed loose, he was attacking the basket, was creating and dishing, and he was making shots. Now, he's been sitting, doesn't seem like the same player when he comes in, his shot definitely has went downhill, he's playing a lot more tentative. We may not see that player again that we saw early in the year. I think he is playing more to not fail now instead of being in attack mode. I know the better competition is part of it, but he is nothing like the player I saw in the preseason scrimmage, which is why I went on the Jenifer promotional tour in the first place. He did nothing to change my mind early in the season. The only thing that changed is that Mick stopped playing him in the Southeastern Louisiana game, and it hasn't changed since. The bench time seems to be affecting his head and he doesn't play with the same tenacity or creativity that he did when he was in the rotation.
That's a tough argument to sell. This team has been full of careless mistakes. Also, Justin Jackson was given 3 years to develop his perimeter game and countless players are given the green light regardless of how poor of a shooter they are. You are stretching here Jacob.
I think people are a little too worried about Clark's development. IIRC he started somewhat slow last year and his numbers this year are still pretty good. He's only a sophomore.
where does accountability fit in?I'd just rather have mistakes out of trying to do to much, than mistakes from trying to be perfect...if that makes any sense.
This board has turned into a giant joke just like it did at the end of the last year. It's the same people spewing the same garbage. Most of it is not based on reality.
We lose a tough game at home vs a good team, and we lose to a top 10 team on the road. Now all of the sudden our players all suck, nobody develops, nobody is good when they get here, nobody improves, everybody just sucks, unless you don't play, then you are really good and should play more.
A lot of you guys need to step away from the forum for multiple days after a loss, you lose your freaking minds.[/QUOTE]
I tend to stay away for a bit after certain losses because I know there will be a lot of completely irrational over reacting posts. Some people are just freaking waiting for games like these so they can come in and complain.
Typically not a lot of stats to back it up...just complaining...a lot of "eye test" BS to make it sound like it's something real. They will try and rationalize away actual stats as if we should believe their professional eyes over stats. And they will tell you "trust me...I've watched a lot of basketball in my day" and all sorts of other completely useless information
This is my problem with our player development. We treat Clark like he's a finished product only 10 games into his SO year and we hope for small improvements in areas where he's already good. That's why our players go to Slovakian leagues instead of the NBA. I see Nigel Hayes at Wisconsin and it makes sad. Clark could be like that, but Mick won't let him. He airballed a shot Saturday and that was it. He didn't have the confidence to keep firing. You missed your jumper, now stop messing around and get in the post. Meanwhile, Nigel Hayes played like crap against Marquette...shooting 4-18 FG 1-6 from 3 and he airballed a 3 at the end of the game. But he'll be allowed to keep evolving. Despite how bad that one game may have looked, he and his team will be better in the long run for it. Despite a guy like Sumner having 5 TO or Mecura trying to do way too much, they'll be better for it. Mick doesn't allow the "careless" mistakes and it stunts creativity, improvisation and the overall development of every player he coaches.
There is no doubt that Chris Mack can absolutely coach offense. They've been great at offense the past 2 years. They always struggled with defense, but his 1-3-1 has given everybody headaches, not just us. The size and quickness they have for that zone makes it incredibly difficult.
But let's be real, players like Shaq and KJ aren't going to play in offenses like that. Their lack of ability to see the floor and move and pass would bog that offense down. That's why our offense looks so bad when they both play at the same time. Cobb and Evans have to take their place for the majority of minutes.
Agree 100%! KJ and ST kill any kind of offensive flow we can create in half court. Flow is not the fault of Caupain...guys like KJ and Thomas bog it down with their deficiencies. I would give Evans 25+ minutes and Shaq 15 minutes at the 3 and 5 minutes subbing for Clark and running small. I would start to try to work in Jenifer a little more. Caupain needs more of a break and he can get some of KJ's minutes too.
where does accountability fit in?
Agreed.
This board has turned into a giant joke just like it did at the end of the last year. It's the same people spewing the same garbage. Most of it is not based on reality.
We lose a tough game at home vs a good team, and we lose to a top 10 team on the road. Now all of the sudden our players all suck, nobody develops, nobody is good when they get here, nobody improves, everybody just sucks, unless you don't play, then you are really good and should play more.
A lot of you guys need to step away from the forum for multiple days after a loss, you lose your freaking minds.[/QUOTE]
I tend to stay away for a bit after certain losses because I know there will be a lot of completely irrational over reacting posts. Some people are just freaking waiting for games like these so they can come in and complain.
Typically not a lot of stats to back it up...just complaining...a lot of "eye test" BS to make it sound like it's something real. They will try and rationalize away actual stats as if we should believe their professional eyes over stats. And they will tell you "trust me...I've watched a lot of basketball in my day" and all sorts of other completely useless information
WH, a lot of your phrases above seem to be directed at certain posters, rather than just commenting on our team and/or program as a whole. Everyone knows what BS and Freaking really mean, so why not use the actual words? Using their close second doesn't soften the intent any. Anyway, if stats were the be-all, end-all, and the eye test was meaningless BS, then why do the coaches and players look at film endlessly, and why send advance scouts to watch games. Why not just use the goofy stats to formulate your game plan. Basketball stats can be found to support almost any argument you want to talk about. Jenifer and Quadri are shooting "lights out" compared to Johnson and Caupain. Why not just throw those two in the lineup and upgrade the offense that is so ugly at this point in the season? Shaq is a 50% shooter and 39% from 3, yet everyone wants him benched. They're obviously far superior at putting the ball in the basket than Troy and KJ....or at least that's what the stats say.
You can't have them on the floor at the same time unless you're going three guard. If Jenifer is in, then Thomas should be in. There are just certain guys I don't like on the floor together.
WH, a lot of your phrases above seem to be directed at certain posters, rather than just commenting on our team and/or program as a whole. Everyone knows what BS and Freaking really mean, so why not use the actual words? Using their close second doesn't soften the intent any. Anyway, if stats were the be-all, end-all, and the eye test was meaningless BS, then why do the coaches and players look at film endlessly, and why send advance scouts to watch games. Why not just use the goofy stats to formulate your game plan. Basketball stats can be found to support almost any argument you want to talk about. Jenifer and Quadri are shooting "lights out" compared to Johnson and Caupain. Why not just throw those two in the lineup and upgrade the offense that is so ugly at this point in the season? Shaq is a 50% shooter and 39% from 3, yet everyone wants him benched. They're obviously far superior at putting the ball in the basket than Troy and KJ....or at least that's what the stats say.
I don't like personal attacks L-T so I tend to generalize? I don't like to post profanity too often so I use the less profane terms most of the time. I hope that's ok.
I am sure you can use stats to say anything you would like if you have an agenda and your purpose is to be intellectually dishonest...but it's not mine. I just wish people would back up claims that people are "regressing" or "not improving" etc with at least some sort of empirical evidence other than "it just seems like it"...LMFAO! Do you know what the F in that stands for or do you prefer I write it out?
Jacob the only flaw I see in your theory is Clark has never demonstrated he can make that shot. From what I've seen if I'm the opposition I want him taking them all day as opposed to being around the boards taking shots he can make and drawing fouls or collecting offensive rebounds. He is much better served closer in.Mostly on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not advocating Ellis and Clark just launching shots from wherever, whenever. But if Clark sets a screen and rolls back to the top of the key and has an open look from 3, I don't care how much time is on the clock, he should take it. I think we've become so focused on post play in the halfcourt that we don't use our bigs enough to help our guards get going to the hoop or create mismatches. I agree with Bulldog that Ellis and Clark should be setting WAY more screens. I called us the Grizzlies the other day bc of how our offense works. It's actually pretty similar imo. Gasol and Randolph never stray more than 15 feet from the hoop and it kills their guards. Conley is one of the best in the world at breaking down defenders, but there's nowhere for him to go. He's shooting 40% this year as a result. I give Troy crap for not driving, but maybe he could do more of that if there weren't the 4 biggest bodies on the court all clogging up the lane. I'd just like to see some different action. We give teams the same look for 40 straight minutes and expect efficiency. Put Clark up top, Evans on the wing, Cobb/KJ in the corner, and have Caupain dribble up the floor on his favorite side to play a 2-man ISO game with Ellis. Something. We gotta free these guys up. But our guys have to have the confidence to catch and shoot too with zero hesitation. Evans and Caupain are the only guys on the team who currently do that. That'd be a nice role for a guy like Clark to develop into to go along with his post game.