Xavier

[Bulldog01]

I believe jenifer has got into paint in ridiculous less minutes than troy has in MAJOR minutes. Troy body language tells you he's not comfortable running point. When him as nd jenifer were in game together troy let jenifer bring ball up.

 

[L-T]

How many of last year's players are noticeably improved over last year? Not only have most not shown improvement, many actually look worse. There was a time when we would see players literally transform their bodies and massively improve over 4 years (Kenyon Martin, Steve Logan, Bobby Brannen, Ryan Fletcher, Keith Gregor, Eric Hicks, etc) We rarely see that happening under this coach. Shaq looked like a superstar in the making in that NCAA game he played as a freshman. How much better is he 3 years later? How much better is Caupain and Johnson than they were as freshmen? Gelawn Guyn sits out a year and then leaves here and look at his stats so far this year on East Tennessee St. His numbers are phenomenal. How badly could we use those numbers on this team? Anyway, player development under Mick is a definite issue for me.

 

[Bearcats_1]

Player development sucks at UC!! Like what are they doing during the summer? No player comes back with anything new added to their game not one single thing. This is because all Cronin does is preach team defensive yes defensive wins game but there comes a time where you will need to put the ball in the basket.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

When we were scoring at will early in the year everyone was saying how great we were and how all the work in off season was paying off. What's changed? The level of competition?

 

[ucswais]

Player development sucks at UC!! Like what are they doing during the summer? No player comes back with anything new added to their game not one single thing. This is because all Cronin does is preach team defensive yes defensive wins game but there comes a time where you will need to put the ball in the basket.

Watch some games from Deberry early in his career. Watch him now. Let me know if you think he's added anything to his game.

Justin Jackson was basically Conner Barwin with more jumping ability year 1. You don't think he improved?

 

[waterhead]

Guys this whole regression talk is just sour grapes right now IMO. I get that we have struggled a bit lately.

The point of this post is not going to be to show improvement or that I wouldn't like to see more but to say I'm not sure where regression talk comes from.

Caupain is scoring a little more this year (not much) and most of those didn't come against the patsies. His assist to turnover ratio last year was like 1.66:1 and it was VERY low ranked in the NCAA. This year he is 3.66:1 so far which would have been top 10 last year. MASSIVE improvement in that regard!!

Clark is averaging one more point and one more rebound so far. That could go down as the season goes IDK.

Ellis one more point and a small bit more rebounding


Some people say our D even against the patsies wasn't good but we were in the top 5 in scoring D for a while (I haven't looked recently).


We lost to a good X team at their gym but held them to a reasonable score. We lost to a good Butler team at our place by 2 pts. The sky is not falling but I understand the concern

 

[L-T]

Watch some games from Deberry early in his career. Watch him now. Let me know if you think he's added anything to his game.

Justin Jackson was basically Conner Barwin with more jumping ability year 1. You don't think he improved?

Justin Jackson was so bad as a junior that this whole forum called for him to be run off/lose his scholarship so we could recruit an additional person. As a senior, he finally became a decent player. We shouldn't have to go thru three years of under-performing to finally get a single decent season out of our recruits. Look at this coach's history. That has been the rule, not the exception. There are a lot of cases where we finally saw some production when the players were seniors. Up to that point, very little. There are always one or two examples that someone can find to argue the point. We're speaking in generalities here. For the most part, players do not show great improvement from season to season, and over the course of their careers. If there is any improvement, it generally is in their final season. The fact that we don't ever have anyone leaving early to enter the NBA draft, nor do we have anyone playing in the NBA (except the lone player that got the hell out of here after one season), demonstrates the lack of development better than anything else. In ten years, you can only put one single player in the NBA??? The focus on defense is probably a major contributor to this. Nobody gets much better offensively. Typically, any improvement we see is on the defensive end. Obviously, the NBA is not that impressed with great defensive talent.

 

[HoosierCat]

Sometimes you have to put it on the player for not getting better, can't just blame the coach. Which I believe was the case with JJ.

 

[XUArizona]

I am an XU grad so I have a negatively biased opinion, but even mine isn't as grim as most of you. That Jennifer kid is tough, though he can't play significant minutes now he can and will be relied on in the future. You have Evans III who can shoot, Clark who despite his bad game is very good down low (not sure what happened to him but Blueitt played better D than I thought he would). Cumberland, your 4* coming next year is a dead eye shooter with size.

You guys are where we were 4 years ago with Christon/Taylor/etc and UC blew us out downtown. We were looking ahead to recruits and hoping they would develop. The reality is that most recruits work out at a rate of two out of three or at least half. Right now, Xavier has pretty much everyone working out and a very good transfer. We won't get that rate forever. UC is a shooter and a legit PG away from being right there again.

 

[XUArizona]

Hate on Cronin all you want, I won't argue with you. That assistant that ran the ship last year is and will be a good coach at some point. I think the best coaches have their own schemes that they adjust to the talents of the players they have on the bench.

We had thin years when I thought Mack was horrible, but over that time I realized his offensive/defensive schemes were limited by the talent he had. On the flip side is a coach like KU's Self who recruits guys who fit his scheme and force fits them in regardless of other talents.

Sometimes you have to put it on the player for not getting better, can't just blame the coach. Which I believe was the case with JJ.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

this same rotation minus Sanders got us past Purdue and played Ky tough. Evans has replaced Sanders. What's changed? Rule changes. There is 5 seconds less on shot clock. As a defensive minded team should that help us or hurt us? Replacing Sanders with Evans is that a plus or minus? All summer long all we heard was how hard they worked in weight room. Who backed up Troy last year? Is Clark better this year or last year? Have we improved our ball skills? Last year everyone screamed for Cobb to start. He is, has that been a good thing a bad thing or neutral? Is Moore serviceable or is he a swing and a miss? Is this team built to be up tempo? I mean we scored plenty against the cupcakes and 76 against Butler in a losing effort. We came with 55 against X and looked the worst I have ever seen against a 1-3-1 zone. So my question is getting Jennifer 10-12 minutes a game is going to change all that? Against the cup cakes he had his moments as did everyone.

Here's my take. Mick is trying to force feed a group into a faster paced offense and to this point they have not clicked. Especially against better competition. We have not guarded, handled the rock or boarded as well as we did last year with virtually the same group. we have entered the toughest part of our schedule and we have regressed instead of improved. League is just around the corner. This team is not trending in the right direction. Is 10-12 minutes of JJ and Moore going to reverse that? My eyes tell me that even when we were blowing out the cupcakes we still had defensive issues. It's my opinion that this team is not going to simply out score people. If we don't get back to playing hard nosed, lock down defense we are in for a disappointing season. My question is with as well as we closed out last year and with virtually everyone a year wiser,stronger and more focused why did we need to change? At the end of last year were we not pushing the ball a bit more then normal? Again what's changed? Why didn't we build off last years strengths? Were they mishandled last year? Now if JJ is Devon Downey, pushing the pace may be in order but nothing I've seen on either side of the ball indicates that he is. Mick needs to play to the strengths of his team. Right now it's more then obvious we are not. Something that has got him to 5 straight dances. This team is not now or by the end of the year going to be a run and gun team. Be what you are and improve your weaknesses. If we play the same style as we finished the year with last year and improved the efficiency of our offense would we be a better team?

Look guys we do not see practice. We are not D-1 coaches. None of us. We are emotionally driven fans. For the most part a guy makes a good play and we all think he should be getting more time. If he misses a shot or turns it over bench him. If you think I'm wrong go revisit the threads. Discussing strategy and who gets what minutes is fun but again none of us are qualified. At the end of the day we have no influence on what happens in the game except the attendance figures. Will all know how successful the team was at the end of the year.

Mick has done anything but foce feed an uptempo style in our big games...

Our pace is 61.2 when we score under 70 (61.3 PPG).
Our pace is 75.0 when we score 70+ (91.3 PPG).

^We don't need to score 91 per game, but in those higher paced numbers, our turnovers are actually down too.

Tempo in the 240s isn't exactly break-neck speed. Averaging 72 ppg is not exactly run and gun. That's all I ask for. We won't win anything in March scoring 55 if we miss shots, 60-65 if we make shots.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

When we were scoring at will early in the year everyone was saying how great we were and how all the work in off season was paying off. What's changed? The level of competition?

What's changed is Mick tightening things up so drastically.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Guys this whole regression talk is just sour grapes right now IMO. I get that we have struggled a bit lately.

The point of this post is not going to be to show improvement or that I wouldn't like to see more but to say I'm not sure where regression talk comes from.

Caupain is scoring a little more this year (not much) and most of those didn't come against the patsies. His assist to turnover ratio last year was like 1.66:1 and it was VERY low ranked in the NCAA. This year he is 3.66:1 so far which would have been top 10 last year. MASSIVE improvement in that regard!!

Clark is averaging one more point and one more rebound so far. That could go down as the season goes IDK.

Ellis one more point and a small bit more rebounding


Some people say our D even against the patsies wasn't good but we were in the top 5 in scoring D for a while (I haven't looked recently).


We lost to a good X team at their gym but held them to a reasonable score. We lost to a good Butler team at our place by 2 pts. The sky is not falling but I understand the concern

Caupain's AST/TO is great...but he is not a playmaker at all. Safe Sally. Sumner had 5 TO against us Saturday, and even though he's a frosh I'd still take him all day long over Caupain as my PG.

 

[L-T]

Caupain's AST/TO is great...but he is not a playmaker at all. Safe Sally. Sumner had 5 TO against us Saturday, and even though he's a frosh I'd still take him all day long over Caupain as my PG.

Absolutely! Ast/To doesn't always tell the accurate story.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Justin Jackson was so bad as a junior that this whole forum called for him to be run off/lose his scholarship so we could recruit an additional person. As a senior, he finally became a decent player. We shouldn't have to go thru three years of under-performing to finally get a single decent season out of our recruits. Look at this coach's history. That has been the rule, not the exception. There are a lot of cases where we finally saw some production when the players were seniors. Up to that point, very little. There are always one or two examples that someone can find to argue the point. We're speaking in generalities here. For the most part, players do not show great improvement from season to season, and over the course of their careers. If there is any improvement, it generally is in their final season. The fact that we don't ever have anyone leaving early to enter the NBA draft, nor do we have anyone playing in the NBA (except the lone player that got the hell out of here after one season), demonstrates the lack of development better than anything else. In ten years, you can only put one single player in the NBA??? The focus on defense is probably a major contributor to this. Nobody gets much better offensively. Typically, any improvement we see is on the defensive end. Obviously, the NBA is not that impressed with great defensive talent.

Lance's draft stock dropped big time after just 1 year here too.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I am an XU grad so I have a negatively biased opinion, but even mine isn't as grim as most of you. That Jennifer kid is tough, though he can't play significant minutes now he can and will be relied on in the future. You have Evans III who can shoot, Clark who despite his bad game is very good down low (not sure what happened to him but Blueitt played better D than I thought he would). Cumberland, your 4* coming next year is a dead eye shooter with size.

You guys are where we were 4 years ago with Christon/Taylor/etc and UC blew us out downtown. We were looking ahead to recruits and hoping they would develop. The reality is that most recruits work out at a rate of two out of three or at least half. Right now, Xavier has pretty much everyone working out and a very good transfer. We won't get that rate forever. UC is a shooter and a legit PG away from being right there again.

We're always a recruit or 2 away. Then those guys get in the program...and we're just a recruit or 2 away...

 

[L-T]

We're always a recruit or 2 away. Then those guys get in the program...and we're just a recruit or 2 away...

Lol!!! Now that is a true statement! Plus.....we are always "young" and inexperienced! Haven't heard that one too much this year, but I'm sure we will at some point!

 

[cincrulz11]

Guys this whole regression talk is just sour grapes right now IMO. I get that we have struggled a bit lately.

The point of this post is not going to be to show improvement or that I wouldn't like to see more but to say I'm not sure where regression talk comes from.

Caupain is scoring a little more this year (not much) and most of those didn't come against the patsies. His assist to turnover ratio last year was like 1.66:1 and it was VERY low ranked in the NCAA. This year he is 3.66:1 so far which would have been top 10 last year. MASSIVE improvement in that regard!!

Clark is averaging one more point and one more rebound so far. That could go down as the season goes IDK.

Ellis one more point and a small bit more rebounding


Some people say our D even against the patsies wasn't good but we were in the top 5 in scoring D for a while (I haven't looked recently).


We lost to a good X team at their gym but held them to a reasonable score. We lost to a good Butler team at our place by 2 pts. The sky is not falling but I understand the concern

This board has turned into a giant joke just like it did at the end of the last year. It's the same people spewing the same garbage. Most of it is not based on reality.

We lose a tough game at home vs a good team, and we lose to a top 10 team on the road. Now all of the sudden our players all suck, nobody develops, nobody is good when they get here, nobody improves, everybody just sucks, unless you don't play, then you are really good and should play more.



A lot of you guys need to step away from the forum for multiple days after a loss, you lose your freaking minds.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Guys this whole regression talk is just sour grapes right now IMO. I get that we have struggled a bit lately.

The point of this post is not going to be to show improvement or that I wouldn't like to see more but to say I'm not sure where regression talk comes from.

Caupain is scoring a little more this year (not much) and most of those didn't come against the patsies. His assist to turnover ratio last year was like 1.66:1 and it was VERY low ranked in the NCAA. This year he is 3.66:1 so far which would have been top 10 last year. MASSIVE improvement in that regard!!

Clark is averaging one more point and one more rebound so far. That could go down as the season goes IDK.

Ellis one more point and a small bit more rebounding


Some people say our D even against the patsies wasn't good but we were in the top 5 in scoring D for a while (I haven't looked recently).


We lost to a good X team at their gym but held them to a reasonable score. We lost to a good Butler team at our place by 2 pts. The sky is not falling but I understand the concern

Will Clark ever be a stretch 4?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

This board has turned into a giant joke just like it did at the end of the last year. It's the same people spewing the same garbage. Most of it is not based on reality.

We lose a tough game at home vs a good team, and we lose to a top 10 team on the road. Now all of the sudden our players all suck, nobody develops, nobody is good when they get here, nobody improves, everybody just sucks, unless you don't play, then you are really good and should play more.



A lot of you guys need to step away from the forum for multiple days after a loss, you lose your freaking minds.

No one was complaining after the Butler loss except Mick. It's how we lose. Right back to the crap we know doesn't advance you in March. That 9 year track record is based on nothing but reality.