Xavier

[cincrulz11]

Will Clark ever be a stretch 4?

he doesn't ever need to be one. he needs to continue to develop inside. he has made huge strides this year as his eFG% and TS% have gone through the roof.

people probably ignore that though. his offensive rebounding % is also higher, his FT shooting has gotten better, his steal % is up.


He's basically dead on in defensive rebouding % and block % as last year and he's improved everywhere else.


but no development here, keep walking by.

 

[L-T]

This board has turned into a giant joke just like it did at the end of the last year. It's the same people spewing the same garbage. Most of it is not based on reality.

We lose a tough game at home vs a good team, and we lose to a top 10 team on the road. Now all of the sudden our players all suck, nobody develops, nobody is good when they get here, nobody improves, everybody just sucks, unless you don't play, then you are really good and should play more.



A lot of you guys need to step away from the forum for multiple days after a loss, you lose your freaking minds.

It's a lot like the guys who declare this as Troy's team after he torches a bunch of cupcakes.....and Mick as the next John Wooden after the same wins or an occasional upset. Maybe some should step away for a few days after wins as well. There are an equal number of people who lose their freaking minds after wins.

 

[cincrulz11]

Right back to the crap we know doesn't advance you in March.

Again you've been given stats multiple times that prove your statement here is bullcrap. Yet you continue to say it. On and on and on you say it, but that doesn't make it true.


There is no doubt this team has issues that need fixed, and yes those issues have prevented us from advancing in the past, but it's not the tempo issue.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

he doesn't ever need to be one. he needs to continue to develop inside. he has made huge strides this year as his eFG% and TS% have gone through the roof.

people probably ignore that though. his offensive rebounding % is also higher, his FT shooting has gotten better, his steal % is up.


He's basically dead on in defensive rebouding % and block % as last year and he's improved everywhere else.


but no development here, keep walking by.

When did I say he hasn't developed? I'm the one who posted those stats, so I'm very aware of where he is on those fronts. I was just asking if he'll ever be a stretch 4. If you don't think he needs to be, I would have to disagree. Stretch 4s help space the floor and open things up for everyone. Having 2 post players clogs the lane (maybe why Caupain doesn't drive) and it makes it easy for the defense to double the post without leaving the weak side exposed.

 

[TheRealUC]

This board has turned into a giant joke just like it did at the end of the last year. It's the same people spewing the same garbage. Most of it is not based on reality.

We lose a tough game at home vs a good team, and we lose to a top 10 team on the road. Now all of the sudden our players all suck, nobody develops, nobody is good when they get here, nobody improves, everybody just sucks, unless you don't play, then you are really good and should play more.



A lot of you guys need to step away from the forum for multiple days after a loss, you lose your freaking minds.

Great post. Things go well and it's "see i told you Mick should have done this". We lose and everyone becomes the john wooden of couch coaches. For what it's worth, it's always good for a laugh.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Again you've been given stats multiple times that prove your statement here is bullcrap. Yet you continue to say it. On and on and on you say it, but that doesn't make it true.


There is no doubt this team has issues that need fixed, and yes those issues have prevented us from advancing in the past, but it's not the tempo issue.

Ok. Well we have a chronic TO problem when we go slow. So lets just blame that when we lose and hope it magically changes even though it hasn't with this group for about 50 games now.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Again you've been given stats multiple times that prove your statement here is bullcrap. Yet you continue to say it. On and on and on you say it, but that doesn't make it true.


There is no doubt this team has issues that need fixed, and yes those issues have prevented us from advancing in the past, but it's not the tempo issue.

The more possessions we have in a game, the lower our TO rate gets. That's a fact.

 

[Bulldog01]

Player development sucks at UC!! Like what are they doing during the summer? No player comes back with anything new added to their game not one single thing. This is because all Cronin does is preach team defensive yes defensive wins game but there comes a time where you will need to put the ball in the basket.

They get to spend summer playing against mick all uc team

 

[cincrulz11]

The more possessions we have in a game, the lower our TO rate gets. That's a fact.

Thats a fact because the only teams use a higher tempo against are the garbage teams. I would hope we have a lower TO rate against those teams don't you?


We haven't tried to do it vs the good teams. If we ever try that, then we can look at the numbers are see what's up.



And don't get me wrong, I also enjoy watching a faster paced game, it's just more enjoyable. But even if we do that we still have issues. Until this team learns how to run an offense in the half court, we will be in trouble. It doesn't matter what the pace of the game is, running an efficient offense is a must, scoring in the half court is a must, and we can't do it.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Thats a fact because the only teams use a higher tempo against are the garbage teams. I would hope we have a lower TO rate against those teams don't you?


We haven't tried to do it vs the good teams. If we ever try that, then we can look at the numbers are see what's up.



And don't get me wrong, I also enjoy watching a faster paced game, it's just more enjoyable. But even if we do that we still have issues. Until this team learns how to run an offense in the half court, we will be in trouble. It doesn't matter what the pace of the game is, running an efficient offense is a must, scoring in the half court is a must, and we can't do it.

We are closer on these issues than it probably appears. I know it sounds weird, but I would love for once to get knocked out in March playing how we did in the Butler game. But I think we can all but guarantee, when we lose in the tournament this year it'll be bc we score under 60.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Again you've been given stats multiple times that prove your statement here is bullcrap. Yet you continue to say it. On and on and on you say it, but that doesn't make it true.


There is no doubt this team has issues that need fixed, and yes those issues have prevented us from advancing in the past, but it's not the tempo issue.

what are those issues, and how do they get fixed? Can't just say stop turning the ball over because the root cause goes much deeper.

I think increasing tempo would help this team a lot.

 

[Bulldog01]

Letting players go off on their own in summer getting developed by different teachers. Gates, sk, jj all got to play summer ball off campus. Ellis and deberry should've been at big man camps this summer.

 

[cincrulz11]

what are those issues, and how do they get fixed? Can't just say stop turning the ball over because the root cause goes much deeper.

I think increasing tempo would help this team a lot.

We don't have any form of half court offense. Even if we got out in transition more (which I think we all agree we need to do) we still have to develop some sort of half court offense. We don't move at all on offense, our entire offense is throw it to the post (and some of our guards aren't even willing to make that pass) and if the other team takes that away our entire offense is pass it 30 feet from the bucket and fire up a 3 as the shot clock expires. How is that going to win any games no matter what pace you play at?


How do we fix it? I have no idea, bring a guy in that actually can coach offense? Doesn't have to be a HC, but what does having all the assistant coaches be Mick clones do for us?

 

[TheLongHaul]

I think most here agree that those are valid issues. Where I disagree is that playing at a faster pace helps alleviate some of those issues. If your issues are half-court offense execution then trying to get open looks prior to the defense getting set helps that. Obviously they need to get better in their half-court offense, but when has that ever been good under Mick? The spacing between UC and X on offense was night and day. I don't buy that they have more talent than UC, but they execute better and know how to run an offense.

Also, this team turns the ball over whether they play fast or slow so you might as well try to play fast to get easier buckets.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We don't have any form of half court offense. Even if we got out in transition more (which I think we all agree we need to do) we still have to develop some sort of half court offense. We don't move at all on offense, our entire offense is throw it to the post (and some of our guards aren't even willing to make that pass) and if the other team takes that away our entire offense is pass it 30 feet from the bucket and fire up a 3 as the shot clock expires. How is that going to win any games no matter what pace you play at?


How do we fix it? I have no idea, bring a guy in that actually can coach offense? Doesn't have to be a HC, but what does having all the assistant coaches be Mick clones do for us?

Agreed. I got torched for saying I wished LD had taken a HC position after last year bc I don't like how he and Mick see everything the exact same way. Savino was the one who pushed for Cobb...I don't know a ton about him, but maybe if he were Assoc HC he'd actually challenge Mick on some things. And we could bring in a young new asst that comes from an offensive background.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think most here agree that those are valid issues. Where I disagree is that playing at a faster pace helps alleviate some of those issues. If your issues are half-court offense execution then trying to get open looks prior to the defense getting set helps that. Obviously they need to get better in their half-court offense, but when has that ever been good under Mick? The spacing between UC and X on offense was night and day. I don't buy that they have more talent than UC, but they execute better and know how to run an offense.

Also, this team turns the ball over whether they play fast or slow so you might as well try to play fast to get easier buckets.

Agreed.

 

[cincrulz11]

I think most here agree that those are valid issues. Where I disagree is that playing at a faster pace helps alleviate some of those issues. If your issues are half-court offense execution then trying to get open looks prior to the defense getting set helps that. Obviously they need to get better in their half-court offense, but when has that ever been good under Mick? The spacing between UC and X on offense was night and day. I don't buy that they have more talent than UC, but they execute better and know how to run an offense.

Also, this team turns the ball over whether they play fast or slow so you might as well try to play fast to get easier buckets.

I mean I agree of course with us needing to get as many buckets as we can before the defense is set, we all said this all season long. The issue is how do we go about doing that. Look at how we rebound the ball defensively, Mick seems to have everybody crash the boards. That won't help get out on the break. How many times do we pull down a board with our bigs and he's got 2-3 teammates standing next to him.


It didn't help us that we started giving up tons of offensive boards a couple weeks go, I'm sure this encouraged Mick to demand everybody start rebounding.


I will also say this, when Jenifer is in there and he tries to get up the court, how often are 2-3 teammates lagging way behind?


My point isn't, and never has been, that the up tempo game is bad for us. But it is clear as day it doesn't fit in with Mick's style. Nothing about the way he coaches suggests he could just snap his fingers and suddenly we could play up tempo against teams that don't want us to. My entire point in these threads has been it IS possible to win playing the way Mick wants, but the team has to get better to do it.

 

[cincrulz11]

The spacing between UC and X on offense was night and day. I don't buy that they have more talent than UC, but they execute better and know how to run an offense.

There is no doubt that Chris Mack can absolutely coach offense. They've been great at offense the past 2 years. They always struggled with defense, but his 1-3-1 has given everybody headaches, not just us. The size and quickness they have for that zone makes it incredibly difficult.



But let's be real, players like Shaq and KJ aren't going to play in offenses like that. Their lack of ability to see the floor and move and pass would bog that offense down. That's why our offense looks so bad when they both play at the same time. Cobb and Evans have to take their place for the majority of minutes.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

There is no doubt that Chris Mack can absolutely coach offense. They've been great at offense the past 2 years. They always struggled with defense, but his 1-3-1 has given everybody headaches, not just us. The size and quickness they have for that zone makes it incredibly difficult.



But let's be real, players like Shaq and KJ aren't going to play in offenses like that. Their lack of ability to see the floor and move and pass would bog that offense down. That's why our offense looks so bad when they both play at the same time. Cobb and Evans have to take their place for the majority of minutes.

I wouldn't complain at all if Evans played some 2 to get extra minutes and took the most shots on the team from here on out.

 

[cincrulz11]

I wouldn't complain at all if Evans played some 2 to get extra minutes and took the most shots on the team from here on out.

The problem is we need him at the 3. If we are going to play this super slow ball, Shaq doesn't fit into that system. He has no idea about spacing.

Does anybody remember the play against xavier where we appeared to have a corner 3 play set up for Cobb? We swing the ball over to the weak side but Shaq set up nearly right on top of Cobb allowing 1 defender to guard them both. If he stands where he's supposed to, sliding around 5-10 around the arc, Cobb gets the open shot. Instead he basically hands it off to Cobb and we get stuck in the corner.