Yancy's Shelf Life Gone?

[Bearcat_NTS]

Mickk was named one of 10 coaches on the hotseat coming into this season (think it was Rivals.com). If they fail to make the tournament then he will certainly remain on that list. Why delay the process by a year? It's not like the number 1 recruiting class in the nation is coming in.

 

[Ryno99]

Let's get back on topic here. I think Mick has to go the Bishop route on Gates, he is a cancer to this team right now, on the bench, in practice, in the locker room. At this point, the team is better without him. Just hope to all things holy that it lights a fire under his ass and he comes back next year ready to play with some passion. It was embarrassing when he was in yesterday whatever he was doing on the offensive end, was definitely not what I would call posting up, just sad that he has no drive or respect for himself or the program, the kid just doesn't get it, at all. Very sad to see what he is doing to himself. Someday this kid is gonna look back and say, damn, I really f'd up and missed out on a golden opportunity.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

Bolded part: You listen to much Lance, Alum. (I could hear his voice when I read that) I know, b/c that's where you got your (paraphrasing) You can rally behind or dig in against them" sig.

I don't think anyone is guaranteeing he's gone this year. I know I'm not. That would be foolish. But what I am saying is he most likely will be gone within the next two years.

Alum, you know enough that you should be pretty level headed about this team's chances moving forward. I'd honestly would like to hear your thoughts on a few things.

1.) Do you think our incoming class is inflated b/c of size? One 4 star, and four 3 stars does not strike me as top of league recruiting. Many BE teams are mainly comprised of 4 stars, a handful of 3's, and a 5 or two, or three. All we heard in Mick getting this year was names like Teague and Chane. We got neither. We got a bunch of guys outside the top 75. (No immediate, turn a program around help)

2.) Don't you think a mass exodous of transfers would be just as likely, and damaging, as guys wanting out of their LOI. (If Mick stays but gets axed later, we may see as much, or more long term damage.) People act like giving the year will cement these kids 4 years.

3.) Do you think this team has any chance of competing for a winning league record without Yancy next year, if he leaves.

4.) Even if he stays, do you think we at least have a CHANCE of a 6 seed or higher next year. Or a top 3rd BE finish?

5.) What grade would you give Mick and his staff for last year?

6.) If we fall short this year, what grade would you give this year? Higher than a C? D?

7.) When can we expect this team to be able to compete (Key word compete, not win) for a BE title. '11? '12? ....

8.) Just for shats and giggles, if Mick did get fired, what type of job do you think he could land? (Big 6 BCS, MAC, Horizon, DII)

Not even being a dick with those questions, be curious to hear some honest replies. Personally, I think it was 100% clear that AT BEST we have an average coach overall. If striving for mediocrity is the goal, then sign the guy to a 10 year deal. If actually having a national program is the goal, then the guy can't leave soon enough. He's simply not good enough. Not even close. Sounds crummy, but there's a reason dude make millions.

As sure as Alum can tell you Mick will be here next year, I can as sure tell you he won't be here much longer. He is not the answer, and will be gone sooner than later. Guaranteed. If that makes me less of a fan. because I'll admit our coach is way over his head. so be it.

I DO NOT listen to Lance. I've heard him before, but I've never heard him say this... If anything, he stole it from me. Hah. Seriously, I watch too much sports television and it is a common response by many.

1. I'm not big into "stars." I used to be into all that jazz, before I actually paid attention to recruits as they went through the process. I stopped allowing stars to dictate my perception of a recruit when I was a freshmen in college. I can't remember what exactly sparked it, but it likely had something to do with Robert Whaley coming to UC as a 5star and absolutely being nothing what I expected...

2. Kids may transfer after a year in the program, but there will be many that don't. Engrained at the school, relationships have been made, they're comfortable, and playing time will be ripe for the taking...

3. We're better with a Yancy Gates that gives effort "most of the time." We're terrible if he takes 75% of the plays off, which he does... His attitude is terrible right now, so we may be better off without him, should it actually come to that... We're better with him if he competes, but we are not better if he is on the floor and not competing, b/c it is 5 v. 4 then...

4. Yes, always chance at a 4 seed...especially in the BE. I do not think we finish top 3 in the BE. I think next year will be tough without Yancy, but it could hurt even more moving forward for the development of our freshmen if his attitude spoils their attitudes.

5. Not happy with last year. I give it less than average. We should've made the dance and had talent to make some noise. Cohesion issues fall on him. He didn't make it work. C-, but a "grade" is relative and subjective... I thought he got a B+/A- his second year in BE play....even his 3rd year. Last year he did not coach welll, IMO. We also had a few of the same common denominators that are on this team...

6. If we fall short? I don't know...but I really need to see how it all shakes out... We're still 6-6 in the BE and 19-6 overall. Let's just hang tight...

7. I don't think we "compete" for a BE title in '11. Maybe '12. We won't be "competing" on an annual basis, IMO. Maybe bi-annual or tri-annual basis, hopefully. Syracuse isn't competing for a BE title. 6-6 in the BE with the #2 recruiting class and a few legitimate NBA prospects + a HOF coach.

8. I don't think Mick would immediately take a head coaching position. He could EASILY be the top assistant at BCS level programs in the country, and could EASILY get a job in another conference (unlikely BCS conference) making serious money. The guy did well at Murray State. He can coach. The BE is no joke, especially if you do not have NBA Lottery picks littering your roster.


My request to you: PLEASE don't type out 21 questions again... I cannot resist responding and it takes too much time. BTW, you're the only person that cares what I wrote, so everyone else will just browse over my post with glazed eyes...

 

[bearcat jeff]

I DO NOT listen to Lance. I've heard him before, but I've never heard him say this... If anything, he stole it from me. Hah. Seriously, I watch too much sports television and it is a common response by many.

1. I'm not big into "stars." I used to be into all that jazz, before I actually paid attention to recruits as they went through the process. I stopped allowing stars to dictate my perception of a recruit when I was a freshmen in college. I can't remember what exactly sparked it, but it likely had something to do with Robert Whaley coming to UC as a 5star and absolutely being nothing what I expected...

2. Kids may transfer after a year in the program, but there will be many that don't. Engrained at the school, relationships have been made, they're comfortable, and playing time will be ripe for the taking...

3. We're better with a Yancy Gates that gives effort "most of the time." We're terrible if he takes 75% of the plays off, which he does... His attitude is terrible right now, so we may be better off without him, should it actually come to that... We're better with him if he competes, but we are not better if he is on the floor and not competing, b/c it is 5 v. 4 then...

4. Yes, always chance at a 4 seed...especially in the BE. I do not think we finish top 3 in the BE. I think next year will be tough without Yancy, but it could hurt even more moving forward for the development of our freshmen if his attitude spoils their attitudes.

5. Not happy with last year. I give it less than average. We should've made the dance and had talent to make some noise. Cohesion issues fall on him. He didn't make it work. C-, but a "grade" is relative and subjective... I thought he got a B+/A- his second year in BE play....even his 3rd year. Last year he did not coach welll, IMO. We also had a few of the same common denominators that are on this team...

6. If we fall short? I don't know...but I really need to see how it all shakes out... We're still 6-6 in the BE and 19-6 overall. Let's just hang tight...

7. I don't think we "compete" for a BE title in '11. Maybe '12. We won't be "competing" on an annual basis, IMO. Maybe bi-annual or tri-annual basis, hopefully. Syracuse isn't competing for a BE title. 6-6 in the BE with the #2 recruiting class and a few legitimate NBA prospects + a HOF coach.

8. I don't think Mick would immediately take a head coaching position. He could EASILY be the top assistant at BCS level programs in the country, and could EASILY get a job in another conference (unlikely BCS conference) making serious money. The guy did well at Murray State. He can coach. The BE is no joke, especially if you do not have NBA Lottery picks littering your roster.

1. The rating system is the most overrated thing in basketball. There is a bias in it and it is a very incomplete process. Exposure dictates a lot of it and the talent around you can give a false impression.

2. Don't see transfers with the possible exception of Parker. That's not based on any knowledge just an observation that if anyone would want to it'd be him.

3. Yancy Gates is a cancer at this point. When a player challenges a coach like this it becomes a credibility issue. Other players watch and as I've stated, we had a recruit tweeting about his behavior. He could lift this team if he chose to but instead he wants to act like a spoiled high school kid. The bigger issue here is that there is a pattern here. Mitchell, Bishop, and Gates. The coach has to put an end to this. Chaos in the locker room equals chaos on the floor.

4. Does the loss of Yancy hurt next year? It's hurt this year. No player, coach or anything else can be bigger than the program. The name on the jersey matters more than anything else. If players aren't sold out to that your team suffers anyway.

5. Mick is a good coach with players that buy in. The first two seasons are good examples of that. However, he seems to lose a war of wills with players who aren't and he allows players to fracture the team. This is my main concern with him as a coach. He can't bring a team together. Again, the players have a responsibility in this as well and with 5 seniors this shouldn't be happening. You have to have a player leader in the locker room. Mick hasn't had that lately and hasn't filled the void.

6. Agree with BA1 here. You have to play the season out. There are still possibilities here.

7. Trying to rebuild a program in this environment is brutal. So many teams and combinations of variables. As long as we're in this league it will be hit and miss but I like the younger players and recruits Mick is getting. At some point he has to land or develop some shooters.

8. I read a year ago that you don't win the national championship without at least 3 NBA players on your roster. Mick's played from behind the 8 ball from the start. Mick Cronin can coach. Those that don't like him may dispute this but he can. He does a good job with x and o's. To win at this level you have to be able to raise your team above it's talent level and bring it together with a single purpose. That is the intangible he lacks. Mick will have no problem landing a job. I acually think he would do alright in the right environment. He's already proven he can win at the mid-major level. BCS school? Depends. You may find it unbelieveable but there are many people that respect what he's done under the circumstances and pressure.

Nobody asked me but couldn't help myself

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Still no change in the Yancy situation, will play Wednesday.

 

[JUSTGOPLAY]

Still no change in the Yancy situation, will play Wednesday.

Not only did the fans boo when Yancy went to check in after Thomas fouled out Sunday, they stood and booed. Entire sections, men, women, children collectively stood and booed their asses off and yelled mean things. I can't ever, ever recall a Bearcat player being this far in the doghouse......For the little bit of the time that Yancy was on the floor Sunday, he looked more shell shocked than lackadaisical to me. I think this dude has been beaten into submission. If Mick is going to salvage this guy, and most likely this season, he better pull a 180 and try to take him under his wing and play good cop for a while. Or, he has to get him out of the program ASAP. They can not let this situation continue this way.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Not only did the fans boo when Yancy went to check in after Thomas fouled out Sunday, they stood and booed. Entire sections, men, women, children collectively stood and booed their asses off and yelled mean things. I can't ever, ever recall a Bearcat player being this far in the doghouse......For the little bit of the time that Yancy was on the floor Sunday, he looked more shell shocked than lackadaisical to me. I think this dude has been beaten into submission. If Mick is going to salvage this guy, and most likely this season, he better pull a 180 and try to take him under his wing and play good cop for a while. Or, he has to get him out of the program ASAP. They can not let this situation continue this way.

Look I feel he should be off the team but let's face it the fans are fickle. If Yancy comes out against Louisville and scores 14-16 points and pulls down 9-10 rebounds all will be forgiven. Hell, here in Cincinnati they may give him a standing ovation after the game.

 

[MDW79]

If Yancy comes out against Louisville and scores 14-16 points and pulls down 9-10 rebounds all will be forgiven. Hell, here in Cincinnati they may give him a standing ovation after the game.

Not anybody in my section, or the droves of UC fans I've known throughout the years. The friends, coworkers, etc all know this guy has been dogging it off and on for years. I'm pretty sure not even 25 and 12 would get it done, in soliciting that type of response. And I'm sure as hell know 14 and 9 won't. Our fans are not that stupid, nor that fickle. I've never seen anything like what I witnessed Sunday. EVER. This is not "Cincinnati fans being Cincinnati fans." (Btw, are you from here?)

As much as some think Cronin gets unfairly criticized, I think our fans do as well. And I do take this as a direct shot on our fans intelligence, and the people that keep this program going. Like any business, you're only as good as your customers. To shit on our fans at every opportunity seems pretty unfair to me.

The product is mediocre, and is not a terribly exciting style to watch. The coach is not a BK type of personality, he is not great with the media. The fanbase has seen similar results these last few years. These are all FACTS. Thinking are fans are fickle morons, is not near a fact. If anything, saying such seems like an immature way of voicing one's displeasure with what Mick has directly contributed to. Lackluster results, and an angry or apathetic fanbase.

The blame for everything starts and stops with him. Don't like it? Win. And if he does, the credit we'll start and stop with him as well. If Mick produces a consistent winner, this town will love him. If he doesn't people will want him gone. Neither of which has anything to do with the average ticket holders basketball IQ, or an ability to gauge a player's effort. Insinuating as such seems like a heckuva defense mechanism.

 

[psax889906]

I've seen no one take a shot at the fanbases intelligence, MDW. The only critiques I've seen are that they simply don't show up. I think our fan base is intelligent enough. Do I think they cheer enough- hell no and if you don't like that sorry but it's the truth. I scream my brains out at every game and I get looked at like I'm crazy.

So,

No- UC fans are not unintelligent or misinformed. They are however lazy and many act more like they're at a golf course rather than a basketball game.

 

[MDW79]

I've seen no one take a shot at the fanbases intelligence, MDW. The only critiques I've seen are that they simply don't show up. I think our fan base is intelligent enough. Do I think they cheer enough- hell no and if you don't like that sorry but it's the truth. I scream my brains out at every game and I get looked at like I'm crazy.

So,

No- UC fans are not unintelligent or misinformed. They are however lazy and many act more like they're at a golf course rather than a basketball game.

The person I quoted has ripped our fanbase before, and seems to be doing it subtly in that very post. I'm of the belief that describing someone as fickle enough to applaud a performance (14 and 9???) with a standing ovation, after everything that has transpired, is indeed a dig at their intelligence.

It would take a certifiable moron to have booed like they did on Sunday, only to applaud (Again, standing ovation) the kid 3 days later for an average game. I'm sorry, I took that as, 100%, a shot at our fans. If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

And fwiw, I wasn't one of the people that booed. As much as the kid drives me nuts, he's still an amateur. Save the boos for the professionals. That whole scene was very strange, and I sure wish it never happened.

 

[psax889906]

The person I quoted has ripped our fanbase before, are seem to doing in that very post. I'm of the belief that describing someone as fickle enough to applaud a performance (14 and 9???) after everything that has transpired, is indeed a dig at their intelligence.

It would take a certifiable moron to have booed like they did on Sunday, only to applaud the kid 3 days later for an average game. I'm sorry, that was 100% a shot at our fans.

And fwiw, i wasn't one of the people that booed. As much as the kid drives me nuts, he's still an amateur. Save the boos for the professionals.

I agree on the booing point. And that Yancy is not going to get a standing ovation tomorrow unless something monumental were to occur.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

And fwiw, I wasn't one of the people that booed. As much as the kid drives me nuts, he's still an amateur. Save the boos for the professionals. That whole scene was very strange, and I sure wish it never happened.

I get what your saying, but I'll agree to disagree . These players are essentially getting paid to play.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

Booing any college athlete is messed up, especially home fans booing a hometown kid that plays for their hometown school.

It's disturbing, upsetting and embarrassing. Yancy isn't a bad kid. He just doesn't seem to have his heart fully in it. It's disappointing, but I will never boo any of our players. EVER.

FWIW, I didn't hear the booing. I was up in the 200s, so maybe that had something to do with it.

I hope Yancy gets some minutes against Ville because we could really use a big-time effort from our post guys. If he doesn't perform or play with energy and discipline, get him out and put him on the bench.

Life goes on folks, and there is more to life for a college athlete than strictly basketball. While there is certainly a high profile light that comes with, these are young adults trying to find themselves. Easy on the bashing, especially booing our own players.

 

[Who Dey Time]

Booing any college athlete is messed up, especially home fans booing a hometown kid that plays for their hometown school.

It's disturbing, upsetting and embarrassing. Yancy isn't a bad kid. He just doesn't seem to have his heart fully in it. It's disappointing, but I will never boo any of our players. EVER.

FWIW, I didn't hear the booing. I was up in the 200s, so maybe that had something to do with it.

I hope Yancy gets some minutes against Ville because we could really use a big-time effort from our post guys. If he doesn't perform or play with energy and discipline, get him out and put him on the bench.

Life goes on folks, and there is more to life for a college athlete than strictly basketball. While there is certainly a high profile light that comes with, these are young adults trying to find themselves. Easy on the bashing, especially booing our own players.

I agree that the booing was bush league but Yancy's act over the last few weeks has really rubbed some people the wrong way. A lot of people bitch about missed shots, offensive sets, etc. and people agree and disagree about those things. However, I think everyone agrees that effort and personal accountability to your success is something that really should never come into question and for Yancy it has far too many times.

 

[ervins84]

ive never booed a college kid in my life until sunday bc ill only boo when people dont try and look like they dont care. Ive never seen a college kid fit both of those descriptions and id do it again if a college kid conducted himself in the manner that yancy did that game.

Ill never boo a guy for missing shots, lane violations, turnovers, or even just generally sucking. But if its clear someone doesnt give a shit, isnt trying, lacks all enthusiasm, has no interest in the teams winning/losing, sits on the end of the bench, stands as far away as possible during timeouts, and has a pouty look on his face the whole time hes on the bench and is flat out lazy, then yes, yes i will boo his ass at the top of my lungs, college "amateur" athlete or not.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Booing any college athlete is messed up, especially home fans booing a hometown kid that plays for their hometown school.

It's disturbing, upsetting and embarrassing. Yancy isn't a bad kid. He just doesn't seem to have his heart fully in it. It's disappointing, but I will never boo any of our players. EVER.

FWIW, I didn't hear the booing. I was up in the 200s, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Just to start, I didnt boo.

But your wrong. I dont care if hes a hometown kid or not. If yancy doesnt have his heart into the game stop wasting everyones money on a scholarship. Everything in life has been handed to you on a silver platter (a potential career, a free education, the keys to the city) and you want to piss on it? I dont care if your not any good at all, but you damn well better show effort and that you care about the team.

For as much hate as Adam H got around here, you wouldnt see this out of him. He worked his ass off, he may not have been the best but he surely gave the effort. Booing a guy who works is bushleague.

Heres my question, which player is going to step up and call out Yancy? Thomas tried, didnt seem to work. I would be really steamed if I where his teammate.

 

[ervins84]

For as much hate as Adam H got around here, you wouldnt see this out of him. He worked his ass off, he may not have been the best but he surely gave the effort. Booing a guy who works is bushleague.

Heres my question, which player is going to step up and call out Yancy? Thomas tried, didnt seem to work. I would be really steamed if I where his teammate.

bolded part i agree with 100%.

also, I think this is where were really gonna see who is the leader of this team. We can go down the list of great college basketball teams, and there is just no way whatsoever any leader would ever let someone pull this shit on his team without there being a lot of fights in practice and getting this worked out

Does anyone think Kenyon Martin or Shane battier wouldve let this crap happen on his watch? Mateen Cleaves? How about Djaun Blair? Joakim Noah? Theres just no way any of those types of guys would let this stand. Micks gonna take a lot of the heat, but someone else on this team has to put yancy in his place, and it needs to happen soon.

 

[UCPT99]

Don't remember who said they couldn't hear the boos in the 200s section, but I am surprised that anyone in the arena could not hear it. I myself booed from the 200 sections, and loudly at that. I have gone to games for 24 plus years and had season tixs for only 4 (9 if you count my years in attendance in the student section) and sadly this is the first time I have booed a Bearcat(or a situation related to a Bearcat). I never booed any missed layup by Adam H. I never booed any of the ill advised shots by Damon Flint. I never booed Charles Williams dribbling the ball off of his foot in the last seconds of the Crosstown Shootout. As much as I was frustrated in any of these given situations, I was proud that they were Bearcats because they were proud that they were Bearcats. But Gates attitude and demeanor during the game was nothing more than a tantrum demonstrated by my 6 or 4 year old on any given day. I will never or have never booed effort combined with sub-par talent. But, for the first time ever, I found myself booing a guy who could care less to wear the Cincinnati Uni. At the time, I was also booing what appeared to be a team inserting or rewarding a guy who acted liked he did the entire game (I later found this was not the case). Mick himself said that he doesn't have a problem with Yancy being booed. So, to all of the people on here that are saying that it is Bush League that Yancy was booed...Would you rather those people not show up to the games? As Butch Jones says, did Yancy represent the C? Am I less of a fan now that I booed a player, only to have his very coach say that he didn't disagree with the fans that booed him?
Just as everyone on here has a differing of opinion on Mick or the direction of the program, just because a fan boos a player doesn't make him any less of a fan or is either side right or wrong.
I will still be there tomorrow night, and the remaining home games, chearing on the Bearcats, win or lose. I will not be chearing laziness, pouting, fighting between teammates, or any player thinking he is above our Bearcats.
One last thing, it was sad to read a possible recruit who was in attendance tweet that he thought a player currently on the Bearcat team was lazy and stupid. So, which impacts recruits more: message boards or current disinterested players?

 

[cincycpaw]

but someone else on this team has to put yancy in his place, and it needs to happen soon.

Who exactly is going to do that? The guy the coach kicked off the team at the end of last season and then let back in?

You are right, but I am not sure who is going to fill that role. To fill that role and be credible you have to have the resume to back it up, I don't think any of our players have that. Here's hoping someone does though and Yancy listens. He is Mick's signature recruit, something has to change.

 

[cincycpaw]

I don't think I have ever booed a UC player. I booed Mike Thomas when he cut Andy off. I have screamed "what the hell" and other things when players have made mistakes on the court, but don't think I've ever booed the 'Cats.

But since apparently Yancy wasn't getting the message from his coaching staff....or his teammates...maybe now that the fans have piled on it will finally sink in.