Dear Whit Babcock.....

[bearcat jeff]

What am I selling? A fanbase that won't attend games? Midnight madness? No wait that was cancelled because fans wouldn't attend. Oh I know, I'll sell the way the fans hold on to the past! No that won't work. Wait! The negativity surrounding the program, that should draw great players and coaches alike! How about a city that has been negative about the new coach since he was hired? Maybe the poor budget you'll inherit? What coach wouldn't want that? That should draw a great coach and players. Yeah, the fanbase and support of the school is a great recruiting tool. All Mick has to sell is the possibility of building something from nothing. Cause that's what he was left with. If you think a great coach comes here with options you're deluded. Poor fanbase, school in debt, low recruiting budget. Do your job with no support and no developmental money and tell potential hires you'd like them to come work in that environment. Bet they go to P&G instead.

 

[UCBearcats]

What am I selling? A fanbase that won't attend games? Midnight madness? No wait that was cancelled because fans wouldn't attend. Oh I know, I'll sell the way the fans hold on to the past! No that won't work. Wait! The negativity surrounding the program, that should draw great players and coaches alike! How about a city that has been negative about the new coach since he was hired? Maybe the poor budget you'll inherit? What coach wouldn't want that? That should draw a great coach and players. Yeah, the fanbase and support of the school is a great recruiting tool. All Mick has to sell is the possibility of building something from nothing. Cause that's what he was left with. If you think a great coach comes here with options you're deluded. Poor fanbase, school in debt, low recruiting budget. Do your job with no support and no developmental money and tell potential hires you'd like them to come work in that environment. Bet they go to P&G instead.

Spoken like a true Xavier fan.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Spoken like a true Xavier fan.

Give me ur sell! You idiots and Nancy Z have set this program back years. It's sad what this staff has to battle. It truly is.

 

[UCBearcats]

Give me ur sell! You idiots and Nancy Z have set this program back years. It's sad what this staff has to battle. It truly is.

Yeah, it's really sad that I continue to pay money for tickets every year and attend every game. I feel so bad for Mick and his staff that some people don't blindly support him when he doesn't live up to the results some people expect. You want to fix all the issues you just listed above? WIN GAMES. That's it, if you win people will come and buzz will grow and you will become relevant again. Mick can't win consistantly enough, he's small potatoes.

It's always the same from people like you, you want to slam others for living in the past but you're the one who's always bringing the past up. Huggins is gone, those days are long gone and over. I don't want Huggins back, I just don't want Mick anymore. The two issues are seperate from each other.

It comes down again to expectations. Of course you're okay with Mick, look at your comments in your last few posts. You think our program is a joke and we don't belong with the big boys or we don't have a place on the national scene. Of course you're cool with Mick, you don't really want to win or even think our team deserves to win. Make the tourney every few years and you're on top of the world. Now people want to praise Mick because our players(who he has no control over)got in a fight and he handled himself well in the postgame? What about the fact that we lost by 23 points to Xavier?

 

[david aka the TYZ]

This whole thread is a joke. UC got repeated open looks. Cash, Dixon and Kilpatrick were a combined 8-36. When will you jokesters start looking at players? UC got off 5 more shots than X. Sets don't matter if players don't execute. They got beat down the court. Couldn't finish at the rim and missed countless open looks.

Mick Cronin is the only person that showed any class in the end of this debacle. He is the only person that came out strong against what happened. Yancy Gates made nearly half of the field goals made by Cincinnati. The guards were 1-16 from 3 and UC shot 61 times. That's 45 shots inside the 3. If you are going to be critical at least be informed. These posts are a further embarrassment for this program and continues to show the lack of knowledge by a select few. This season is at the feet of these players. When UC had the lead the team was passing and executing. When the perimeter players decided to dribble into double teams and not get back on defense the game fell apart.

This season can be summed up in one word. Heart. Or should I say the lack thereof. You can't teach heart. You can't design sets for heart. 61 shots at 27%. If only the coaching staff could play. It is Micks responsibility but to say it is his fault is simply wrong. As an operations manager my staff does things I can't control. It is my responsibility to correct it but theirs for doing the wrong. If a worker ultimately needs replaced it is my job to do so. Unfortunately a coach can only do that once a year. Yes, he recruited these guys, but in the end you sign who you can.

I completely agree and this echoes my opinion of what I said earlier in this thread. We shot 27.9% from the field. That is why we lost and why we continue to lose. Mick's offense is what it is. The players need to execute it. I will say the lack of turnovers leading to easy baskets is hurting this team alot. Our offense struggled last year, but was able to win by getting some good runs off some stifling defense that helped us get enough points to outscore the opponent. We see none of that this year. Hopefully with Parker back and the freshman starting to contribute we will see some full court press thrown in the mix.

 

[ready2go]

Most on here keep saying, Mick has time to turn it around.

What if he doesnt? Then what?

Isnt the sign of a good coach, scratch that, decent coach, consistency? He took a team to the tourny last year. Well done. The years before, his teams collapsed down the stretch. This year, the year that was supposed to change the program, bring back national prominance, they got blown out by X, lost to Presbyterain and Marshall.

In previous years he wanted to blame players for the offensive struggles. Then would proclaim not to worry because this guys presence will change the offense.

Blame the defense all you want Mick, but scoring in the 50's will not win many games

 

[bearcat jeff]

Yeah, it's really sad that I continue to pay money for tickets every year and attend every game. I feel so bad for Mick and his staff that some people don't blindly support him when he doesn't live up to the results some people expect. You want to fix all the issues you just listed above? WIN GAMES. That's it, if you win people will come and buzz will grow and you will become relevant again. Mick can't win consistantly enough, he's small potatoes.

It's always the same from people like you, you want to slam others for living in the past but you're the one who's always bringing the past up. Huggins is gone, those days are long gone and over. I don't want Huggins back, I just don't want Mick anymore. The two issues are seperate from each other.

It comes down again to expectations. Of course you're okay with Mick, look at your comments in your last few posts. You think our program is a joke and we don't belong with the big boys or we don't have a place on the national scene. Of course you're cool with Mick, you don't really want to win or even think our team deserves to win. Make the tourney every few years and you're on top of the world. Now people want to praise Mick because our players(who he has no control over)got in a fight and he handled himself well in the postgame? What about the fact that we lost by 23 points to Xavier?

No, if you read what I write I question Mick's leadership and his ability to have players buy in to his vision. What I don't do is blame this whole mess on him. I understand that players play and when they don't the best coach in the world isn't going to win. This group is lazy and they play with no passion.

I do not think the program is a joke. I think you and many others have a vastly inflated view of it at this point in time. As long as fans don't support this program it will have a hard time competing in any major conference. It takes money to improve facilities, to recruit, etc.. Do you think recruits and potential coaches don't see the fractured fanbase, money issues, league affliation bs, and all the other stuff? There was a reason no major coaches applied when Mick took the job. They knew what a train wreck awaited them. But those like you are blind to this cause you believe UC is Duke.

I love this university but I have a clear understanding of what it is. It is an urban university with major issues within the athletic department, financially, and among it's so called supporters that won't support it. That isn't blame it is a fact. Bob Huggins used to say that he knew he wouldn't get top talent to come
to UC so he tried to get as many good players as he could to wear other teams down. Bob was a force. He is one in a handful of coaches. They don't grow on trees. There is a reason UC was what it was for many years prior to him coming. It is not an easy place to recruit to especially now with no fan support and the low recruiting budget. Those are facts!! I am still waiting on you to tell me what you would sell. A watered down Big East? No Mick has to go after select top shelf talent but concentrate on 4 year program guys that take time to grow. That means ups and downs. I get that. I'm not satisfied with it, I just get it.

Btw, I could care less if they lose to X by 23 or UConn. I hate to see them lose period!! Any game!! I have nearly 40 years invested in time and money in this program. I have supported them very step of the way.

 

[UCBearcats]

No, if you read what I write I question Mick's leadership and his ability to have players buy in to his vision. What I don't do is blame this whole mess on him. I understand that players play and when they don't the best coach in the world isn't going to win. This group is lazy and they play with no passion.

I do not think the program is a joke. I think you and many others have a vastly inflated view of it at this point in time. As long as fans don't support this program it will have a hard time competing in any major conference. It takes money to improve facilities, to recruit, etc.. Do you think recruits and potential coaches don't see the fractured fanbase, money issues, league affliation bs, and all the other stuff? There was a reason no major coaches applied when Mick took the job. They knew what a train wreck awaited them. But those like you are blind to this cause you believe UC is Duke.

I love this university but I have a clear understanding of what it is. It is an urban university with major issues within the athletic department, financially, and among it's so called supporters that won't support it. That isn't blame it is a fact. Bob Huggins used to say that he knew he wouldn't get top talent to come
to UC so he tried to get as many good players as he could to wear other teams down. Bob was a force. He is one in a handful of coaches. They don't grow on trees. There is a reason UC was what it was for many years prior to him coming. It is not an easy place to recruit to especially now with no fan support and the low recruiting budget. Those are facts!! I am still waiting on you to tell me what you would sell. A watered down Big East? No Mick has to go after select top shelf talent but concentrate on 4 year program guys that take time to grow. That means ups and downs. I get that. I'm not satisfied with it, I just get it.

Btw, I could care less if they lose to X by 23 or UConn. I hate to see them lose period!! Any game!! I have nearly 40 years invested in time and money in this program. I have supported them very step of the way.

I don't know what I would sell, it's not my job to sell it. I do know that other schools that aren't as attractive have made hires recently after losing big time coaches and they seem to be doing much better than we are. Are Arizona and Memphis any better or more attractive than UC? What about Marquette? Buzz Williams has had better results at Marquette than Mick has had at Cincinnati.

I know that big time coaches don't grow on trees but when I'm sitting in year 6 of a coach who isn't getting the job done I can see that it's time to make a change. To take the approach of saying that we can't fire Mick because we can't get anyone better is absurd. I can only hope that the people making the decisions aka Whit Babcock don't have the same viewpoint.

There are coaches out there who are doing great jobs coaching schools that don't have nearly as much resources as our athletic department does. I realize that we aren't going to throw money at an already established coach to get him to come here. We aren't going to convince Calapari to walk away from UK and we aren't even going to convince Brad Stevens to leave Butler. That doesn't mean that we can't go out and find the next up and coming coaching talent. I would think that a coach who isn't coaching in a major conference would jump on the opportunity to come to UC and be a big east coach.

Our fan base is not bought into Mick. We didn't lose 5 or 6k fans overnight because everyone hates Mick. People stopped coming early on because we weren't winning and the brand of basketball people saw wasn't exciting. Look at last season, we really didn't turn it on until the end of the year and had to make a great run to close the season and make the tourney. Mick deserves credit for that run, but when you come out to start the next season and fall flat on your face you lose any credibility that you had built up with the fan base at the end of last season. People like me and the majority of the people who post here are not the problem. UC is going to get my money anyways, they'll get my donation and my attendance at the BBall and Football games regardless, because I love UC. It doesn't mean that I'm going to sit back and support everything about our programs. I'll always support our teams and the kids who play on them. I love our players and I realize that they are just kids. That is why I put so much of the burden of responsiblity on the coaches shoulders. If Mick can't win with the kids he has then it's on him to get the right kids. If he has the right kids and he can't inspire them to win then it's on him. Any way you look at it the buck stops with Mick. Not with the 18-22 year old kids playing for him.

Our basketball program is not good right now. I think there is an opportunity to improve it if we get rid of Mick. That's all this is about. It's not hatred of Mick or thinking we are Duke. I think we can be an elite team (not Duke, UNC, UConn, or Syracuse) but in the group of teams that are right below that level. I know we can because we've been there before, I also believe based on what I've seen that Mick is not the guy who will take us to that level.

Our fan base needs a shot in the arm, we need to shake things up, we need to change what is happening to this program. You said earlier that we are an afterthought, I don't quite agree that we are yet but if we have another 3 or 4 seasons of this mess we will be no more or less relevant that DePaul or Seton Hall. The time to make a move is now. Whit is a new AD, he should make HIS stamp on our athletic program and go out and find the guy who can bring us back to where we belong.

 

[bearcat jeff]

First of all, yes Arizona is a more attractive job than UC. Most consider it a top 8 job. The pay and facilities are far superior. Secondly, Buzz at Marquette never walked into what Cronin did. He had a smooth transition with no rebuilding. Apples to oranges there. Same at Memphis. The talent base left at Memphis was tremendous. Also both those schools sell out regularly and haven't missed a beat atendance wise. Attendance at UC was declining even prior to Huggins departure.

The fans have never gotten behind Mick because of the affinity they had for Huggs. Also, petty fans feel he betrayed their hero when he left for Louisville even though it was a wise move given no Huggs assistants were being hired for head coaching jobs and the Pitino tree was ripe. That, the lost 2 years recruiting, and budget were major detriments to the initial lack of interest in the job. Rick Pitino advised Mick against taking the job for the same reasons. Mick is well respected nationally. The job he's done under adverse circumstances is recognized outside this city. That's why schools like NC State and Missouri were willing to offer him big money. The UC budget does not allow Mick to hire top notch assistant coaches. That is why he lobbied for higher pay in that area when he signed his extension.

I get that fans just want wins. So do I, but Cronin has been asked to do more than just win. He was asked to restore a reputation and rebuild an academic base that was a mess and was threatening scholarship loss. It limited players he could recruit initially. Again, these are not excuses, simply facts.

It shouldn't be so hard for fans to see what the roadblocks to this job are. It is hard for a school financially strapped, one that can't even afford to market the program to compete against schools with infinitely larger budgets. Kids want to play in front of 12k-20k fans not 4k-5k. Tournaments want to invite schools with following. ESPN wants to televise games with atmosphere. None of that exist here.

I am not against a change. I just d

 

[UCBearcats]

First of all, yes Arizona is a more attractive job than UC. Most consider it a top 8 job. The pay and facilities are far superior. Secondly, Buzz at Marquette never walked into what Cronin did. He had a smooth transition with no rebuilding. Apples to oranges there. Same at Memphis. The talent base left at Memphis was tremendous. Also both those schools sell out regularly and haven't missed a beat atendance wise. Attendance at UC was declining even prior to Huggins departure.

The fans have never gotten behind Mick because of the affinity they had for Huggs. Also, petty fans feel he betrayed their hero when he left for Louisville even though it was a wise move given no Huggs assistants were being hired for head coaching jobs and the Pitino tree was ripe. That, the lost 2 years recruiting, and budget were major detriments to the initial lack of interest in the job. Rick Pitino advised Mick against taking the job for the same reasons. Mick is well respected nationally. The job he's done under adverse circumstances is recognized outside this city. That's why schools like NC State and Missouri were willing to offer him big money. The UC budget does not allow Mick to hire top notch assistant coaches. That is why he lobbied for higher pay in that area when he signed his extension.

I get that fans just want wins. So do I, but Cronin has been asked to do more than just win. He was asked to restore a reputation and rebuild an academic base that was a mess and was threatening scholarship loss. It limited players he could recruit initially. Again, these are not excuses, simply facts.

It shouldn't be so hard for fans to see what the roadblocks to this job are. It is hard for a school financially strapped, one that can't even afford to market the program to compete against schools with infinitely larger budgets. Kids want to play in front of 12k-20k fans not 4k-5k. Tournaments want to invite schools with following. ESPN wants to televise games with atmosphere. None of that exist here.

I am not against a change. I just d

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this issue so I guess we'll just have to leave it at that. I can see some of the angles that you’re coming from but I don't think that things are as bad as you're making them out to be. We aren't that far removed from being a very relevant basketball team. We were a top 15 program during the Huggins era. There may be fans that hate Mick because of the L'Ville situation or that never gave him a chance because of their blind loyalty to Huggins but I assure you that I am not one of those fans. You can still be a rational person and not support Mick Cronin. Just because you don't think he's the right guy for the job doesn't mean that you hate him or are stuck living in the days of Huggins.

I liked the Cronin hire when it was made. I wanted him to be the guy. I've said this many times before and I think that nothing would be better than if Mick was the guy to lead this team back to greatness. He's a local guy and he's got ties to the city. If we did have a huge amount of success he's the kind of guy that would stay here forever. The problem for me is I look at the results and what he's done and I don't think he is that guy. That's really all it is for me. I don't think he's the right guy for the job, I think he's in over his head and because of his stubborn nature and inability to adapt his style and philosophies he's never going to lead us where I want us to go.

You might have a totally different idea of where you want our program to go or what you're happy with than I do. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect that we can be a perennial top 10 power and I won't be happy until we get back to that level. I think that we have a better chance of getting there if we cut ties with Mick and hire a new coach. I realize that nothing is guaranteed if we get a new coach but at least we have a shot. The thing that really worries me is that every year that goes by where we don't have success it becomes harder and harder to get back to that level. If we wait too long to make a change we're really going to be in trouble.

Some of my comments may be a bit irrational or fueled with emotion but that's only because I really want to see this team win. I'm capable of stepping back from a situation and trying to look at it from different viewpoints. I've done that with the Mick situation many times. For me it always comes back to thinking that Mick is not the right guy for the job. Is he the worst coach ever? No. Has he done some good things? Yes. Does he deserve some credit for what he's done since he's been here? Absolutely. Does he deserve to keep his job? For me, no, he hasn't earned the right to continue to coach here.

If UC makes a move at season's end I think after a few years people will look back at Mick's era and say he did a lot to rebuild our program and he set it up for the next guy to come in and return it to glory.


PS - Go back and look at the Memphis situation. Calapari left the cupboard bare and Pastner walked in to a program under NCAA sanctions. He brought in a top 5 recruiting class before he ever coached a single game. The two situations are very different but I don't think you can say that Mick's rebuilding job was any harder than Pastner's.

 

[ralph1950]

I'm sitting here in the Cintas Center and I've never been more embarrassed to be a UC fan. Our once proud program is now a joke. Please fire Mick Cronin! The sooner the better!

P.S. - Could the refs have helped us any more?

You do not look so good right now. UC is 7-0 since TU Holloway started the brawl, while the Gangsters are 1-5. What a dumb statement wanting Mick fired because of what happened in 1 game. UC lost to ND in the Big East Tourney last year by 40 points and the next game beat Missouri in the NCAA tourney. Mick was absolutely the right guy to hire to replace Huggins, Mick will be UC's head coach for many, many years to come.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Whit was in the stands shaking hands last night.

 

[UCBearcats]

You do not look so good right now. UC is 7-0 since TU Holloway started the brawl, while the Gangsters are 1-5. What a dumb statement wanting Mick fired because of what happened in 1 game. UC lost to ND in the Big East Tourney last year by 40 points and the next game beat Missouri in the NCAA tourney. Mick was absolutely the right guy to hire to replace Huggins, Mick will be UC's head coach for many, many years to come.

Go sit on a cactus BearcatMick or Ralph or whatever it is you're calling yourself today.

I based my opinions on what I saw from Mick over his time spent as the coach of our school. It took the XU game to turn around what had been a terrible season up to that point for the Bearcats. Why support someone who wasn't getting the job done? Now that Mick has made the adjustments people like me were complaining he wasn't making the team is winning. I'm not saying I had the answers for Mick to turn it around or suggesting that my criticism of him somehow changed things for our team, I'm simply saying that he made adjustments and they were needed. He blew it the beginning of this season and now he's doing what he should have been doing from day 1.

My only agenda is that this team wins, period. As I've said all along if Mick wins I'm thrilled to have him as our coach. If he doesn't win he needs to go, we'll see how the rest of the season pans out. If the team starts losing again then the hot seat comes back out for Mick.

I'm not even sure why you're still posting here. You stated that you only care about the X game, none of the other games matter to you. Remember when you said that? You'd trade a championship for a win over X. Well we lost he X game so how about you do this board a huge favor and go on a self-imposed ban until the next Crosstown Shootout?

 

[bearcat jeff]

Go sit on a cactus BearcatMick or Ralph or whatever it is you're calling yourself today.


My only agenda is that this team wins, period. As I've said all along if Mick wins I'm thrilled to have him as our coach. If he doesn't win he needs to go, we'll see how the rest of the season pans out. If the team starts losing again then the hot seat comes back out for Mick.

He isn't, or won't be, on any hot seat except in the minds of some fans. That's a fact.

 

[UCBearcats]

He isn't, or won't be, on any hot seat except in the minds of some fans. That's a fact.

I respect your opinion.

 

[ralph1950]

"I'm not even sure why you're still posting here. You stated that you only care about the X game, none of the other games matter to you. Remember when you said that? You'd trade a championship for a win over X. Well we lost he X game so how about you do this board a huge favor and go on a self-imposed ban until the next Crosstown Shootout?"

That is not what I stated. I stated that my good friend All-American George Wilson says if you lose to X you have had a lousy season, if you beat X you have had a great season.

 

[TheLongHaul]

He isn't, or won't be, on any hot seat except in the minds of some fans. That's a fact.

He isn't right now. But if the season continued the way it was going pre-X game you better believe he was going to be on the hot seat. Mick has handled everything post-Xavier incredibly well. But pre-Xavier the attendance was dwindling and the on-court performance was terrible. Witt wasn't going to sit around and wait like Thomas was....and using the term "fact" is simply inaccurate.

 

[bearcat jeff]

He isn't right now. But if the season continued the way it was going pre-X game you better believe he was going to be on the hot seat. Mick has handled everything post-Xavier incredibly well. But pre-Xavier the attendance was dwindling and the on-court performance was terrible. Witt wasn't going to sit around and wait like Thomas was....and using the term "fact" is simply inaccurate.

No it isn't. The UC admin loves Mick. Trust me on this. It'd take 2 back to back bad years for Mick to go. The handling of the brawl only strengthened that.

 

[UCBearcats]

"I'm not even sure why you're still posting here. You stated that you only care about the X game, none of the other games matter to you. Remember when you said that? You'd trade a championship for a win over X. Well we lost he X game so how about you do this board a huge favor and go on a self-imposed ban until the next Crosstown Shootout?"

That is not what I stated. I stated that my good friend All-American George Wilson says if you lose to X you have had a lousy season, if you beat X you have had a great season.

I believe you stated this...........

My old friend All-American George Wilson has always said that the 2 teams you never want to lose to are XU and Miami, you beat them and you have had a great season no matter what else happened, lose to them and it was a bad year. That is why if Kenyon had not broke his ankle and UC would have won the NCAA tourney it would have been a hollow victory as UC lost to XU that year. Huggins never understood that.


The text in bold is clearly your feelings about what's most important. You are a clown and you are the worst. Ban yourself.

 

[Amberlycolonel]

"I'm not even sure why you're still posting here. You stated that you only care about the X game, none of the other games matter to you. Remember when you said that? You'd trade a championship for a win over X. Well we lost he X game so how about you do this board a huge favor and go on a self-imposed ban until the next Crosstown Shootout?"

That is not what I stated. I stated that my good friend All-American George Wilson says if you lose to X you have had a lousy season, if you beat X you have had a great season.

So you are Ralph this week? You need your medication adjusted Ralph/Mick. On a side note, I will have to give Cronin credit. He did and said all the right things after the shootout. He is now reaping in the rewards while X is feeling the pain that goes along with ignoring too many problems for so long. Now that they are addressing long standing problems with the student section, I think they may have put themselves on the right track.