Our Offense

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Agreed with the building process. But there's an old adage that goes something like this: If you've done something repeatedly and you're getting the same results, don't you think maybe, just maybe, you're doing something wrong?!
All I'm saying is get more touches in the post and occasionally put it up instead of kicking it back out. It doesn't matter if it goes in or gets blocked, but it changes the opponents defensive strategy. That's all.

Capt I think post touches are predicated on how effective they are with he ball iin their hands. Jackson is a train wreck. He is generally a good move about 1 out of 3 and when he gets to the line he can't make a free throw. If him and Parker convert a few more against GT we win. Rubles seems completely confused. He has stopped shooting which is what most wanted and now he can't make up his mind to drive or pass. He has obvioulsly lost confidence or is overthinking. I thought Mick was going to jump in his arms the other night when he went base line and actually put the ball up. He missed the shot but was aggressive. Modj amd David N have little offensive ability and Ganies isn't even close to being effective. Those 3 can't handle the ball especially under pressure. If you do throw it to them you have to have confidence they no where to throw it and not turn it over. A lot of people what to specualate on a offense. Move more and such. GT went to a zone the other night to keep from fouling there whole team out. In a close game do you want the ball to go to Modj,Jackson,GAINES or DAVID N. I don't. If they do get fouled we are in trouble.

 

[Bearcat04]

Our offense is terrible, it has been terrible since Mick has been here.

Not true at all. The last two years we've had an AdjOeff that ranked 48th and 51st overall. That is not terrible. It's not national championship worthy and that's ultimately where we'd like to be, but to call it terrible is just lazy considering ervins84 provided all the information a few pages ago.

For me, the two biggest issue with Mick's teams thus far have been finishing around the basket and making FT's. He's yet to have a team finish above 50% on 2pt attempts or above 67% from the line. That's a whole lot of points that are being left out on the court. Missing FT's and easy shots within 3 feet have already cost us a number of games this year.

 

[CaptDale]

Capt I think post touches are predicated on how effective they are with he ball iin their hands. Jackson is a train wreck. He is generally a good move about 1 out of 3 and when he gets to the line he can't make a free throw. If him and Parker convert a few more against GT we win. Rubles seems completely confused. He has stopped shooting which is what most wanted and now he can't make up his mind to drive or pass. He has obvioulsly lost confidence or is overthinking. I thought Mick was going to jump in his arms the other night when he went base line and actually put the ball up. He missed the shot but was aggressive. Modj amd David N have little offensive ability and Ganies isn't even close to being effective. Those 3 can't handle the ball especially under pressure. If you do throw it to them you have to have confidence they no where to throw it and not turn it over. A lot of people what to specualate on a offense. Move more and such. GT went to a zone the other night to keep from fouling there whole team out. In a close game do you want the ball to go to Modj,Jackson,GAINES or DAVID N. I don't. If they do get fouled we are in trouble.

The stategy is not to throw the ball inside in a close game. You do it early to get the opponent's coach thinking - maybe we need to guard these guys. Who we have are not "go to" guys. They're occasional shot blockers, at best. And I was referring to low post play. Jackson and Rubles are offensive train wrecks, although the first move JJ made in the GT game was like someone else was possessing his body. It was a perfect driving spin move that was totally unexpected (probably by either bench)! Where did that come from and will we ever see it again? Doubtful. He must have been playing in his sleep.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Capt I think post touches are predicated on how effective they are with he ball iin their hands. Jackson is a train wreck. He is generally a good move about 1 out of 3 and when he gets to the line he can't make a free throw. If him and Parker convert a few more against GT we win. Rubles seems completely confused. He has stopped shooting which is what most wanted and now he can't make up his mind to drive or pass. He has obvioulsly lost confidence or is overthinking. I thought Mick was going to jump in his arms the other night when he went base line and actually put the ball up. He missed the shot but was aggressive. Modj amd David N have little offensive ability and Ganies isn't even close to being effective. Those 3 can't handle the ball especially under pressure. If you do throw it to them you have to have confidence they no where to throw it and not turn it over. A lot of people what to specualate on a offense. Move more and such. GT went to a zone the other night to keep from fouling there whole team out. In a close game do you want the ball to go to Modj,Jackson,GAINES or DAVID N. I don't. If they do get fouled we are in trouble.

So you think that since Jackson is a train wreck with the ball in his hands (I agree 100%), he shouldn't receive the ball in the post but you are okay with him receiving it 30 feet from the basket and trying to take his man off the dribble? Because that is what the current offense is doing. I'd much rather have the ball in Jackson's hand near the basket than 30 feet out.

And as for him getting the ball in a close game, against he does do that, just 30 feet from the basket. I agree with you there but then you disagree with Mick. A few games ago it almost cost UC the game when under a minute their set play was a handoff from Cash to Jackson 30 feet away from the basket. Jackson lost the ball but luckily they (I believe it was Cash) recovered it.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

So you think that since Jackson is a train wreck with the ball in his hands (I agree 100%), he shouldn't receive the ball in the post but you are okay with him receiving it 30 feet from the basket and trying to take his man off the dribble? Because that is what the current offense is doing. I'd much rather have the ball in Jackson's hand near the basket than 30 feet out.

And as for him getting the ball in a close game, against he does do that, just 30 feet from the basket. I agree with you there but then you disagree with Mick. A few games ago it almost cost UC the game when under a minute their set play was a handoff from Cash to Jackson 30 feet away from the basket. Jackson lost the ball but luckily they (I believe it was Cash) recovered it.

Longhaul sometmes you have no choice but to throw it to a guy. Depending on the game conditions and the presure you may be under. If your asking me if I want him as a regular part of the offense handling the rock. No I don't. That is what I have been argueing about. We have no bigs to take the presssure off the perimeter. I don't care what offense you run if your playing 3 against 5 your in trouble. Especially when your bigs can't make lay ups or FT's. Mick has decided his best opportunity to win is to slow the game down and make it a ugly defensive battle. we have been in every game. People oposting thnk we should be able to teach our post players how to be effective. We have 5 post players. 3 JUCO's and one four year project and one 5 year project. These guys are improving but they do not make for a elite team and I don't care what offense you run. Mick is getting better recruits. As he does the offense will be more diverse and complex. Right now his best chance to stay in games and win is make it ugly. A tack many coaches are employing. Hence the reason scoring is down accross the board. Please don't turn into a bengal fan who thinks a Butt kicking coach makes up for a lack of a talented roster. This program is progressing. Slowly but surely. This next group of players he is bringing in are his best overall class.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

The stategy is not to throw the ball inside in a close game. You do it early to get the opponent's coach thinking - maybe we need to guard these guys. Who we have are not "go to" guys. They're occasional shot blockers, at best. And I was referring to low post play. Jackson and Rubles are offensive train wrecks, although the first move JJ made in the GT game was like someone else was possessing his body. It was a perfect driving spin move that was totally unexpected (probably by either bench)! Where did that come from and will we ever see it again? Doubtful. He must have been playing in his sleep.

Capt we are well in to league play. The opposition knows what are stengths and weaknesses are trust me. Their is a ton of film on every team in the league. The opposing staff spends hours breaking down film on every team. We won't be fooling teams. I was at the GT game. Right after JJ made that beautiful move he followed that up with a turn over and missed 4 of 5 FT's. I was very frustrated watching that game. If we make Ft's we win.We also got a ton of wide open looks from 3 and missed. I will also add a wide open 3 is a shot a good college guard should knock down. Sanders,SK and Cash all missed shots they should make. They were in foul troubel in both halfs and we never capitalized. At one time we were 8-17 from FT line and 3-20 from 3. the majority of the 3's were not contested.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Look I'm like most on here. I would enjoy seeing a game of presssing and fast breaking baskets. But if you think your gong to beat SYracuse or louisville runining up and down the floor your wrong. We aren't gong to beat St. Johns playing that way. We slow the game donw and limit the more talented teams possesions and battle it out. It is not pretty but 19 times this year we have won that way. When we land more talent we will be able to be a little more wide open. Saying we are a better squad then what we have been playing in my mind is inaccurate. Especialy if cash isn't a 100%. Prior to his injury he was playing his best basketball. He is vital to our chances in any game. if he continues playing at the level he has been after the injury it will be a early exit.

 

[UCBearcats]

Look I'm like most on here. I would enjoy seeing a game of presssing and fast breaking baskets. But if you think your gong to beat SYracuse or louisville runining up and down the floor your wrong. We aren't gong to beat St. Johns playing that way. We slow the game donw and limit the more talented teams possesions and battle it out. It is not pretty but 19 times this year we have won that way. When we land more talent we will be able to be a little more wide open. Saying we are a better squad then what we have been playing in my mind is inaccurate. Especialy if cash isn't a 100%. Prior to his injury he was playing his best basketball. He is vital to our chances in any game. if he continues playing at the level he has been after the injury it will be a early exit.

So when does this better talent arrive? At what point do you start to become a little worried that, regardless of talent, Mick's inability to coach our guys on the offensive end is holding our players back? I could argue that Yancy Gates was a tremendous talent who was held back by our offense and our inability to use him correctly. Lance Stephenson was a huge talent but our offense was still ugly to watch while he was here and he mainly scored because of his ability to play 1 on 1 streetball against defenders. SK is one of the top players in the conference who is a deadly spot shooter but struggles to create his own shots yet we can't find a way to move him off the ball so he can spot up for open looks.

Again, I think Mick is doing a pretty good job. The season isn't over and we could make a run in the Big East tourney and the NCAA's and if we do no one is going to be complaining. All anyone wants is to win. What if that doesn't happen though? What if we get bounced in the 2nd round of the BE tourney and take an 8 or 9 seed into the NCAA's and lose in the first round? Should everyone just sit back and say all is well and our offensive issues don't need to be addressed? It seems to me like that is what you're saying.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

So when does this better talent arrive? At what point do you start to become a little worried that, regardless of talent, Mick's inability to coach our guys on the offensive end is holding our players back? I could argue that Yancy Gates was a tremendous talent who was held back by our offense and our inability to use him correctly. Lance Stephenson was a huge talent but our offense was still ugly to watch while he was here and he mainly scored because of his ability to play 1 on 1 streetball against defenders. SK is one of the top players in the conference who is a deadly spot shooter but struggles to create his own shots yet we can't find a way to move him off the ball so he can spot up for open looks.

Again, I think Mick is doing a pretty good job. The season isn't over and we could make a run in the Big East tourney and the NCAA's and if we do no one is going to be complaining. All anyone wants is to win. What if that doesn't happen though? What if we get bounced in the 2nd round of the BE tourney and take an 8 or 9 seed into the NCAA's and lose in the first round? Should everyone just sit back and say all is well and our offensive issues don't need to be addressed? It seems to me like that is what you're saying.

Not saying that at all. A young coach that isn't a household name isn't going to come in and recruit a bunch of one and doners. You don't think the team is progressing. I say the record and talent level is pointing up year after year. Would I like to see it faster, sure!!! I don't have a problem with the offense. In order to win when you are not as well eqquipped talent wise you have to slow the game down and win ugly at times. We are not as athletic or talented ae some teams right now and have to slow the pace and limit possesions. many coaches are using this approach. Wisconsin has won scoring 30 points. They slaughtered TOSU Monday night. we were a jumper away form beating SYr. We aeren't at a place yet where playing uptempo gives us the best chance to win. We are progressing as a program. We need the needle to continue to point up. Landing Lawrnce and ohers was a sign kids are taking us seriously. More importantly Mick and his staff are being taken seriously. You can employ any offense you want and we aren't winning the NCAA this year. His scheme is designed to slow the game down and allow us to compete. You can disagree with it but hsi results on the whole are looking good. other than Creen who do you know that has inherited a mess the size of the one he did and turned it around. Not Depaul and until last year not Indianna. How about UCLA or St Johns? The reason is they got better players. let me ask you this? if you release Mick and look for someone else who would it be? who wants to be here and who can do the job better? Who can we afford.Also do you think Mick will be out of work long?

 

[CaptDale]

Capt we are well in to league play. The opposition knows what are stengths and weaknesses are trust me. Their is a ton of film on every team in the league. The opposing staff spends hours breaking down film on every team. We won't be fooling teams. I was at the GT game. Right after JJ made that beautiful move he followed that up with a turn over and missed 4 of 5 FT's. I was very frustrated watching that game. If we make Ft's we win.We also got a ton of wide open looks from 3 and missed. I will also add a wide open 3 is a shot a good college guard should knock down. Sanders,SK and Cash all missed shots they should make. They were in foul trouble in both halfs and we never capitalized. At one time we were 8-17 from FT line and 3-20 from 3. the majority of the 3's were not contested.

So, you sound like you think a wide open 3 is a better percentage shot than driving the line or short jumpers and trying to draw fouls (no matter how bad our FT % is). We should have had 3 more GT players fouled out of that last game, and not by launching a bunch of 3's. It's a low % shot - plain and simple. I think Shaq needs more minutes and GeLawn needs more confidence, but both are capable of doing what Parker alone does, even if only from the right.

 

[mplebanon]

So when does this better talent arrive? At what point do you start to become a little worried that, regardless of talent, Mick's inability to coach our guys on the offensive end is holding our players back? I could argue that Yancy Gates was a tremendous talent who was held back by our offense and our inability to use him correctly. Lance Stephenson was a huge talent but our offense was still ugly to watch while he was here and he mainly scored because of his ability to play 1 on 1 streetball against defenders. SK is one of the top players in the conference who is a deadly spot shooter but struggles to create his own shots yet we can't find a way to move him off the ball so he can spot up for open looks.

Again, I think Mick is doing a pretty good job. The season isn't over and we could make a run in the Big East tourney and the NCAA's and if we do no one is going to be complaining. All anyone wants is to win. What if that doesn't happen though? What if we get bounced in the 2nd round of the BE tourney and take an 8 or 9 seed into the NCAA's and lose in the first round? Should everyone just sit back and say all is well and our offensive issues don't need to be addressed? It seems to me like that is what you're saying.

We could feasibly lose the rest of our games except for maybe USF, and miss the tournament. I would refrain from assuming anything at this point.

And offense is the big problem. A team this gifted defensively should not be a bubble team come March.

Is there an offensive coaching class that Mick can take? Or should he devote a good portion of his offseason to learning a different offense by studying film by some of the masters of offensive coaching in college b-ball?

A good portion of the time, it seems like Mick just punts on offense, and all they do is concentrate on defense.

 

[UCBearcats]

Capt we are well in to league play. The opposition knows what are stengths and weaknesses are trust me. Their is a ton of film on every team in the league. The opposing staff spends hours breaking down film on every team. We won't be fooling teams. I was at the GT game. Right after JJ made that beautiful move he followed that up with a turn over and missed 4 of 5 FT's. I was very frustrated watching that game. If we make Ft's we win.We also got a ton of wide open looks from 3 and missed. I will also add a wide open 3 is a shot a good college guard should knock down. Sanders,SK and Cash all missed shots they should make. They were in foul troubel in both halfs and we never capitalized. At one time we were 8-17 from FT line and 3-20 from 3. the majority of the 3's were not contested.

You can't call the 3's our guys shoot wide open looks, it's absurd for anyone to say that. We are typically shooting our 3's from NBA range or beyond and pulling up off the dribble because our guards are constantly creating their own shots. Rarely do we catch and shoot just outside the 3 point line without a hand in the face and even more rarely do we get a chance to set our feet and take an open 3. If you call more than 10% of the 3's we've taken this season open looks then I want some of what you're smoking. We don't get open looks at 3 because we don't move, we don't set picks, we don't screen, we don't run the baseline and we don't pass.

We have good shooters on this team, get them better looks and they'll convert at a higher percentage. Remember when we played ND?? Remember how they swung the ball around the perimeter and played the inside out game to set up their best 3 point shooters for wide open looks? Those were open looks, what we see are contested 3's. There is no reason, lack of personnel or not, why Mick can't have guys moving on offense and why we can't get better looks at open shots.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You can't call the 3's our guys shoot wide open looks, it's absurd for anyone to say that. We are typically shooting our 3's from NBA range or beyond and pulling up off the dribble because our guards are constantly creating their own shots. Rarely do we catch and shoot just outside the 3 point line without a hand in the face and even more rarely do we get a chance to set our feet and take an open 3. If you call more than 10% of the 3's we've taken this season open looks then I want some of what you're smoking. We don't get open looks at 3 because we don't move, we don't set picks, we don't screen, we don't run the baseline and we don't pass.

We have good shooters on this team, get them better looks and they'll convert at a higher percentage. Remember when we played ND?? Remember how they swung the ball around the perimeter and played the inside out game to set up their best 3 point shooters for wide open looks? Those were open looks, what we see are contested 3's. There is no reason, lack of personnel or not, why Mick can't have guys moving on offense and why we can't get better looks at open shots.

I can assure you I don't do drugs and we have missed many open looks. I was at GT game and I no we missed 4 in last 5 minutes.while I would like to hit a higher percentage of 2 point shots without a post player we are what we are.

 

[Bearcat22]

I can assure you I don't do drugs and we have missed many open looks. I was at GT game and I no we missed 4 in last 5 minutes.while I would like to hit a higher percentage of 2 point shots without a post player we are what we are.

I would agree that we miss our fair share of open looks as well. I also agree with the post you're responding to, in that we could do a better job getting more open looks.

What the Cats really need is to take UCONN to the woodshed. Drop the timid nonsense, play for one another, and run them out of their own gym.

 

[UCBearcats]

I can assure you I don't do drugs and we have missed many open looks. I was at GT game and I no we missed 4 in last 5 minutes.while I would like to hit a higher percentage of 2 point shots without a post player we are what we are.

Again, there is a big difference between an open look at a 3 pointer and our guards standing far enough beyond the 3 point line that they create a bit of separation.

 

[bearcat4life]

I have watched college basketball a long time. in almost every possession of every game, there is an off ball screen set for some reason. it might be to get a shooter open, it might be to force a defender to switch, it might be just part of an offensive set. I rarely see us set an off ball screen and when we do, it is for SK to shoot a 3. our offense lacks a big man, obviously. we need to make our big men useful. they cant score and they cant even set a screen either. I put this on the coaches, but we really need to start using all 5 guys on the offensive end cause using 3, sometimes 4, and rarely 5 is not going to cut it. I would love to see Cronin implement a dribble rule. 5 dribbles and pass. I cant stand watching wright dribble horizontally on the perimeter. the concept is very similar to football. running backs should run north and south. players should dribble north and south as well. we also could move the ball better. way too many times we hold the ball and let the defense reset. I wouldn't mind seeing a back door every once in a while either.

 

[bearcat4life]

sort of a different topic, but did anyone else see Cronin's comments about the "epidemic" that is taking over college basketball. he says teams are having a hard time scoring due to not enough fouls being called. you would think he would be happy about this epidemic because his team is one of the worst free-throw shooting teams in the country. i cant stand to hear him make comments like this. it is just an excuse and he needs to blame himself and his assistants for not being able to score enough. i didn't hear this proclamation being made when we were putting up 85-90 per game in November. he needs to spend less time whining and more time coaching. i have always liked mick and still do, but comments like these really irritate me.

 

[ervins84]

So, you sound like you think a wide open 3 is a better percentage shot than driving the line or short jumpers and trying to draw fouls (no matter how bad our FT % is). We should have had 3 more GT players fouled out of that last game, and not by launching a bunch of 3's. It's a low % shot - plain and simple. I think Shaq needs more minutes and GeLawn needs more confidence, but both are capable of doing what Parker alone does, even if only from the right.

If SK or any other remotely competent shooter gets his choice of a wide open catch and shoot 3, or a wide open catch and shoot 18 footer, guess which shot is a better shot? The one with the higher expectation in points per attempt. And that will always be the 3 point shot IF were comparing it to a long 2pa or even to a contested 12 footer in the lane. Reason why is simple math and understanding eFG% matters and not FG%. A 3pa only needs to be made at >33% to eclipse the point expectancy of a 2pa shot that will be mad 50% of the time.

The problem imo, is simply this team starts its offense too far away from the basket with the ball screens and handoffs than what it did earlier in the season. A big part of that is a result of Cash not being healthy and guys can get up on him more often and pressure him hard. Similarly, SK is not an elite ball handler and our guys get forced too far away from the rim when were running the offense. I wish there was a way to track it, but over the past 6 weeks, this team has to have taken more dribbles between 25 feet out and the halfcourt line than any other team in cbb. The screens need to be occurring closer to the 3 point line to the point that if we take 1 dribble (currently it takes 2-3 once they hedge or double team) our guys can start getting the ball into the paint. Currently, were taking terrible angles vs the ball screens, rarely splitting the help from the big, and just not making any plays off the ball screens because were too freaking far away from the basket to be a threat and it's easy for the defense to recover.

There are also 3 spots on the floor that coaches at the NBA level have known for some time are the most efficient scoring spots on the floor. They are in order:
1. Dunks/Layups/Shots inside 3 feet
2. Getting FT attempts
3. Corner 3's

The best way to get all those shots is by getting the ball into stress spots for the defense. Those spots are basically a 4-5 ft circle around each elbow, and a 3-4 ft circle right around the half circle no charge zone under the rim. I know Marquette tracks their paint touches, and I'm sure other teams do as well, and right now, our guys have been completely unable to get the ball into stress areas for the defense. Until that changes, the offense is gonna continue to stagnate other than the nights we get ridiculously hot from 3 and keep O-rebounding at a sick 40%+ clip.

 

[TheLongHaul]

sort of a different topic, but did anyone else see Cronin's comments about the "epidemic" that is taking over college basketball. he says teams are having a hard time scoring due to not enough fouls being called. you would think he would be happy about this epidemic because his team is one of the worst free-throw shooting teams in the country. i cant stand to hear him make comments like this. it is just an excuse and he needs to blame himself and his assistants for not being able to score enough. i didn't hear this proclamation being made when we were putting up 85-90 per game in November. he needs to spend less time whining and more time coaching. i have always liked mick and still do, but comments like these really irritate me.

Cronin never said anything about his team. He only stated it as an overall problem. Reread the article while ignoring the Enquirers b.s. headline. He wasn't wining.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Cronin never said anything about his team. He only stated it as an overall problem. Reread the article while ignoring the Enquirers b.s. headline. He wasn't wining.

He is definitely whining a little bit, but he is mainly trying to address a widespread issue in college basketball. I think the BE refs suck, also, but as long as they suck both ways, it is up to you as a coach and your personnel to solve the issues. We haven't done that, and thus, the offense is horrible. Cronin needs to stop worrying about the refs issue right now and focus on the task at hand, which is, fixing the offense. Refs don't make shots, refs don't take dumb shots, and refs don't jack up 3s.