Xavier

[Bearcat_NTS]

I don't think there is a master plan. I honestly think Mick tends to psych himself out before the game even starts. If it is determined that we're playing a good team, he believes the "uptempo" style is just a nonsense gimmick. And if you really want to win those games, you have to win by 50 point grinder. Bc that's how you really need to play. You have to "gut" it out and win a rock fight. That's what he knows. And unfortunately, that means you score 0 fast break points, like we did today. We went against a set defense on virtually every possession. That's really freaking hard to do. And in postgame Mick says something like "When you have 16 TO you aren't going to win, and all other talk about strategy is moot". Come again? Way to deflect the blame coach. Does 16 TO make it hard to win? Damn right it does. But each and every one of those TO is more costly when you intentionally play limited possession, glorified high school basketball. This was a problem last year...and we played this style. And the fact that they weren't putting extreme pressure on us, or pressing, just confirms AGAIN that the style we chose today is not right for our personnel. How many minutes did we waste today having Troy walk it up the floor in slow motion? How many more possessions could that have given us? Notice Xavier plays pretty much the exact opposite of us offensively, and they had no problem scoring in the mid-60s (against an elite defensive team that is taking the air out of the ball). They have no problem beating us 7 out of the last 9 times. And they have no problem getting to Sweet 16s on a regular basis. We complain about defense when Myles Davis flies down the floor and gets a layup with 26 on the shot clock after a make...but we didn't try anything like that ONCE. Hell, with 26 on the clock, we're lucky to have Troy more than 25 feet from the opposing baseline. And good thing we took the time at the beginning to "feel things out" too, bc they went up 10-1 like it was nothing. Bc it was nothing. It's not like anything crazy happened...they were just playing their normal game and we were waiting to get the ok from coach to start the game. I just can't believe I thought we were over this.

Their best player scored 3 points, their best big man was out 2 minutes in with two fouls, they only scored 23 points in the second half...yet they were comfortably ahead by double digits for the entire game.

 

[Doogle]

I think what y'all are speaking to comes down to attitude, aggression, and execution. And yes, a Coach that allows you to play to your strengths.

Been thinking about this for awhile now...and I'm convinced a lot of my frustrations about UC Basketball are of my own making. I had the fortune and privilege to attend UC during the '92-'93 seasons - a period that not only marked the pinnacle of UC's modern era tourney success, but also set a standard for Bearcat Basketball that I fear will never be approached again. That group of players were like a pack of junkyard dogs. If a team even scored on them their rage was palpable. They had a couple of skilled players that could score, surrounded by a bunch of guys that just absolutely hated losing and would grind teams into submission. They played with a level of passion, intensity and aggression that I've never seen ANY team at ANY level play with before or since.

And even in later years we always had a player or two that fit this mold. Kenyon, Jason Maxiell, Eric Hicks, Steve Logan...there was always someone that walked on the floor and looked at the other team like Forrest Whitaker looked at Lincoln's football team in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". Here's the chip on my shoulder. Knock it off if you dare.

Watching that game tonight, the thing that saddens me the most is not how they played or that they lost. It's that I'm not surprised in the least at how they played or that they lost. Passion? Aggression? Pride? Not in this particular group of players' DNA. They let Xavier blow out to a 10-1 lead with all the emotion of microwaving a hot pocket. And while I agree with the absurdity of walking the ball up the floor and limiting possessions (really? Our top 2016 recruit was on twitter SCREAMING about how soft and unaggressive they were), honestly who is Troy going to throw it to in transition? Shaq's ball-handling makes Michael Horton look like John Stockton by comparison. Gary Clark is a player with wonderful potential but the next time I see any real aggression from him will be the first time.

Another thing I agree with wholeheartedly is the issue with playing time for Jenifer/Moore. I don't think Jenifer is the answer this year as starting PG but for Christ sake, it would be nice to hear about how OUR freshmen stepped up in the Shootout, rather then theirs. The only way Jenifer and Moore are going to get better is through attrition in games like today's. Whenever the game gets big, Mick's rotation gets small. And that's no way to run a railroad long term.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Sad. Frustrated. And looking for something out of this team. Some fight. Somebody other than Tay pissed off and ready to take it out on the rim. I don't think they have it in them, including the Head Coach. Prove me wrong and I'll gladly eat every word.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I think what y'all are speaking to comes down to attitude, aggression, and execution. And yes, a Coach that allows you to play to your strengths.

Been thinking about this for awhile now...and I'm convinced a lot of my frustrations about UC Basketball are of my own making. I had the fortune and privilege to attend UC during the '92-'93 seasons - a period that not only marked the pinnacle of UC's modern era tourney success, but also set a standard for Bearcat Basketball that I fear will never be approached again. That group of players were like a pack of junkyard dogs. If a team even scored on them their rage was palpable. They had a couple of skilled players that could score, surrounded by a bunch of guys that just absolutely hated losing and would grind teams into submission. They played with a level of passion, intensity and aggression that I've never seen ANY team at ANY level play with before or since.

And even in later years we always had a player or two that fit this mold. Kenyon, Jason Maxiell, Eric Hicks, Steve Logan...there was always someone that walked on the floor and looked at the other team like Forrest Whitaker looked at Lincoln's football team in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". Here's the chip on my shoulder. Knock it off if you dare.

Watching that game tonight, the thing that saddens me the most is not how they played or that they lost. It's that I'm not surprised in the least at how they played or that they lost. Passion? Aggression? Pride? Not in this particular group of players' DNA. They let Xavier blow out to a 10-1 lead with all the emotion of microwaving a hot pocket. And while I agree with the absurdity of walking the ball up the floor and limiting possessions (really? Our top 2016 recruit was on twitter SCREAMING about how soft and unaggressive they were), honestly who is Troy going to throw it to in transition? Shaq's ball-handling makes Michael Horton look like John Stockton by comparison. Gary Clark is a player with wonderful potential but the next time I see any real aggression from him will be the first time.

Another thing I agree with wholeheartedly is the issue with playing time for Jenifer/Moore. I don't think Jenifer is the answer this year as starting PG but for Christ sake, it would be nice to hear about how OUR freshmen stepped up in the Shootout, rather then theirs. The only way Jenifer and Moore are going to get better is through attrition in games like today's. Whenever the game gets big, Mick's rotation gets small. And that's no way to run a railroad long term.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Sad. Frustrated. And looking for something out of this team. Some fight. Somebody other than Tay pissed off and ready to take it out on the rim. I don't think they have it in them, including the Head Coach. Prove me wrong and I'll gladly eat every word.

Difference is we had an imposing character on the sidelines, a larger than life character in Huggins. Mick is no where near that type of personality.

 

[Doogle]

Difference is we had an imposing character on the sidelines, a larger than life character in Huggins. Mick is no where near that type of personality.

Sigh. What might help is somebody who can simply create and make shots. Cumberland?
I'm resigned to the fact that we're not who we once were, but man I was hoping this team would at least play with some attitude after all the talk about the UK game giving them some hope and motivation. Hasn't happened. And that offense looks awesome against Robert Morris but very much resembles last year's abomination against even mid-level competition.

 

[Bulldog01]

Who was the recruit calling soft?

 

[Doogle]

Who was the recruit calling soft?

Nobody specifically. Just basically said that the entire team was playing soft and to attack the zone. I think the verbatim quote was "ATTACK!!!!"

 

[Doogle]

Here you go:
PLAYING SOFT ATTACK THE ZONE!!!!!!!

 

[Doogle]

Steve Logan was none too happy as well. Mick can blather all he wants about how the "Crosstown stuff doesn't mean anything to him". Well, it means a helluva lot to the players that wore the damn uniform before now. From Logan:
Steve Logan ‏@Only1SteveLogan 2h2 hours ago
When I played , I always felt like this was a must Win game. True ballers never downplayed this game like it didn't mean nothing!!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Really bizarre post game interviews. I saw the one with Mick on Bearcats TV Twitter...but couldn't find a player one. Chad posted his on BCJ with the players...

When asked if the 1-3-1 threw them off, Troy said no and that they were just rushed and moving too fast and needed to relax. Troy said that. Troy Caupain. He really doesn't get it. Hate to break it to you Troy, but if you moved any slower tonight, you would've been standing still. And the casual lob passes back and forth out top seemed pretty relaxed to me. Wow.

The really bizarre part though was that the next question was about Xavier and Mick jumped in and dismissed the Shaq and Troy, saying "Have you guys had enough? This is Cincinnati. So we'll answer questions about Cincinnati". But then he immediately jumped in to giving Xavier credit. Really weird. For a guy who wants tougher players, that kind of thing isn't going to get it. Wow that was weird. What the hell is going on with this team? Mick protects his players in the presser, but then deflects blame and talks about Xavier himself after saying we would only talk about Cincinnati as his reason for dismissing them.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Steve Logan was none too happy as well. Mick can blather all he wants about how the "Crosstown stuff doesn't mean anything to him". Well, it means a helluva lot to the players that wore the damn uniform before now. From Logan:
Steve Logan ‏@Only1SteveLogan 2h2 hours ago
When I played , I always felt like this was a must Win game. True ballers never downplayed this game like it didn't mean nothing!!

We don't have a Logan type killer. That's for sure. I wasn't old enough to really know the Final 4 team, but I remember Logan very well. Most competitive person I've ever seen. If we were up 30, he wanted to be up 32. If we were up 32, he wanted to be up 34. I don't agree with trying to downplay big games either. That's what Marvin Lewis does. We've seen how that works out. That's not what Xavier does...unfortunately we've seen how that works as well. We can complain that it means more to them, or a random guy gets hot from 3, blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, they're doing all the winning. And they don't feel sorry for us.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Heard his presser as well. He's been getting defensive like he was early in his career. Don't like this Mick, he was basically telling us all week that we were going to get blown out.

 

[Bulldog01]

If we lose to vcu and isu, Mick going to come out and say this team lacks talent to win big games. I hope Mick doesn't turn this season into a circus

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Heard his presser as well. He's been getting defensive like he was early in his career. Don't like this Mick, he was basically telling us all week that we were going to get blown out.

I gotta ask, does Mick even want to play Xavier anymore? He just doesn't seem up to the challenge.

 

[cincrulz11]

I gotta ask, does Mick even want to play Xavier anymore? He just doesn't seem up to the challenge.

It's been clear he hasn't wanted to play them at all for a number of years.

 

[cincrulz11]

Calling out Troy every time this team plays slow is wrong. Watch him, hell it seemed like at the start Mick would call him over and whisper in his ear before he was allowed to go up the court. Mick clearly tells him to walk it up. I can't ever get mad at a player for doing what he is instructed to do by his coach.


And we can talk about pace all we want just like last year but that is NOT why we lose. It isn't about pace. It just isn't. .89 points per possession won't win in any pace. Turning it over 25.8 % of your possessions won't win in any pace.

The offense is right back to being pathetic. It isn't about pace, it's about their reluctance to ever want to penetrate. They are content to pass it around for 20 seconds and fire up a terrible 3. We don't have a get it out of the net and push it up the court team. Just accept it. A couple times when we did get it and quickly go up the court, it was 2 of our players vs 4 xavier players all the way back. Teams just aren't going to let us get out in transition, especially with how we rebound. We crash the glass on defense with about everybody, thats not a team looking to get out and run.


The truth is you can win with a slow pace. It's been proven and teams all over the country do it. But they have efficient offenses. They don't turn the ball over all the freaking time. They don't settle for 26 3 point shots with the majority of them rushed up as the clock expires. That crap doesn't happen. They actually run offenses. Guys move around. You know, all the stuff that doesn't happen here.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Calling out Troy every time this team plays slow is wrong. Watch him, hell it seemed like at the start Mick would call him over and whisper in his ear before he was allowed to go up the court. Mick clearly tells him to walk it up. I can't ever get mad at a player for doing what he is instructed to do by his coach.


And we can talk about pace all we want just like last year but that is NOT why we lose. It isn't about pace. It just isn't. .89 points per possession won't win in any pace. Turning it over 25.8 % of your possessions won't win in any pace.

The offense is right back to being pathetic. It isn't about pace, it's about their reluctance to ever want to penetrate. They are content to pass it around for 20 seconds and fire up a terrible 3. We don't have a get it out of the net and push it up the court team. Just accept it. A couple times when we did get it and quickly go up the court, it was 2 of our players vs 4 xavier players all the way back. Teams just aren't going to let us get out in transition, especially with how we rebound. We crash the glass on defense with about everybody, thats not a team looking to get out and run.


The truth is you can win with a slow pace. It's been proven and teams all over the country do it. But they have efficient offenses. They don't turn the ball over all the freaking time. They don't settle for 26 3 point shots with the majority of them rushed up as the clock expires. That crap doesn't happen. They actually run offenses. Guys move around. You know, all the stuff that doesn't happen here.

0.89 points per possession can happen when you get 0 easy baskets bc you don't even try. 0.89 points per possession can also happen when you go against a set defense 100% of the time. No uptempo team ever scores 0.89 points per possession. Last year it was made very clear that this group is not a good halfcourt team offensively. So you say "we just aren't an uptempo team". That's bc sometimes our coach is too scared to even try to be. I'd rather lose trying to score with a team rather than beat our heads against the wall doing the same thing that we know for a fact doesn't work. We literally have this conversation every single year after SURPRISE we score 55 in a massive struggle. Outside of 5 quick ones at the end of the 1st and the 10 point run in the 2nd, it was even worse.

Sure some slow paced teams can win (mainly in the regular season). Wisconsin last year was one. But all 5 of their starters could stretch the floor. We know we don't have that. We know we aren't efficient in half court sets. Never have been. We're the Memphis Grizzlies of college basketball and it isn't going to work. I'd rather fight like hell trying over the course of 30+ games to try to change our identity, rather than just accepting yet another season of 50 point rock fights. Believe what you will, but it doesn't have to be this way. But it takes a commitment this coach doesn't seem to be fully bought into. Especially when you hear him calling out the "geniuses" at the first sign of trouble. Mick can keep doing this over and over again, but he's not going to keep the fans happy, or the recruits interested by playing this way.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It's been clear he hasn't wanted to play them at all for a number of years.

Makes us look like sore losers. Mick complains all the time that we can't get games with the other local big time programs.

 

[IDC]

I actually didnt watch this game. I would have enjoyed watching it after i knew the cats won, but sadly i dont think i can force myself to watch knowing what happened.

Looking at the box score 16 turnovers and 26 3's is all i needed to see. I guess if i dont wtch it didnt really happen

 

[UCBearcats]

When you hold a very good team like Xavier to 65 points you should win the game. I don't care about defense, turnovers, rebounds, toughness or any of the other typical BS we always hear. Find a way to put the ball in the basket or you'll never have elite teams. It's as simple as that. Want to know why Xavier beats us ever year???? Because they score more points than we do. Want to know why Mack is a better coach than Mick??? Because he recruits guys who can score.

It's actually pretty f'ing simple, not sure why we always need to make it so difficult.

 

[UCBearcats]

I don't think there is a master plan. I honestly think Mick tends to psych himself out before the game even starts. If it is determined that we're playing a good team, he believes the "uptempo" style is just a nonsense gimmick. And if you really want to win those games, you have to win by 50 point grinder. Bc that's how you really need to play. You have to "gut" it out and win a rock fight. That's what he knows. And unfortunately, that means you score 0 fast break points, like we did today. We went against a set defense on virtually every possession. That's really freaking hard to do. And in postgame Mick says something like "When you have 16 TO you aren't going to win, and all other talk about strategy is moot". Come again? Way to deflect the blame coach. Does 16 TO make it hard to win? Damn right it does. But each and every one of those TO is more costly when you intentionally play limited possession, glorified high school basketball. This was a problem last year...and we played this style. And the fact that they weren't putting extreme pressure on us, or pressing, just confirms AGAIN that the style we chose today is not right for our personnel. How many minutes did we waste today having Troy walk it up the floor in slow motion? How many more possessions could that have given us? Notice Xavier plays pretty much the exact opposite of us offensively, and they had no problem scoring in the mid-60s (against an elite defensive team that is taking the air out of the ball). They have no problem beating us 7 out of the last 9 times. And they have no problem getting to Sweet 16s on a regular basis. We complain about defense when Myles Davis flies down the floor and gets a layup with 26 on the shot clock after a make...but we didn't try anything like that ONCE. Hell, with 26 on the clock, we're lucky to have Troy more than 25 feet from the opposing baseline. And good thing we took the time at the beginning to "feel things out" too, bc they went up 10-1 like it was nothing. Bc it was nothing. It's not like anything crazy happened...they were just playing their normal game and we were waiting to get the ok from coach to start the game. I just can't believe I thought we were over this.

^^^^^^ This is the perfect post.