Xavier

[WAITE HOYT 2]

^^^^^^ This is the perfect post.

up tempo looked good against cupcakes but against better competition we look very average. we do not make enough shots. Fact is we are the not a very athletic team either. Probably our three most athletic players are turnover machines. Ellis,Shaq and KJ.they combined for 11 of 16 TO's. Walking the ball up the floor versus running is not the issue. We got out played by a better team with better players. Their 1-3-1 zone killed us.

 

[cincrulz11]

Sure some slow paced teams can win (mainly in the regular season).

This is just absolute bullcrap. I posted the stats before so I'll post them again.


Of the teams that made the sweet 16 last year 10 had a AdjT of 150th or lower, 6 220 or lower.

4 elite 8 teams had an AdjT of 223 or slower.

Final 4 had 3 teams with AdjT of 245 or slower.

Sweet 16 teams with tempo in the top 100? 4, of those only 1 got to the elite 8 and 0 to the final 4.



That is what reality is. People can think whatever they want, but the facts are the facts. We did not lose because it was a slow game. We get beat in that game no matter how many possessions there are because we are flat out not good enough as a team right now. That's it.


Until Mick finds a way to coach offense we are going to be screwed. Until he learns to teach the team to attack a defense instead of throw lollipop passes for 20 seconds 30 feet from the basket, we're going to be screwed. Those are the real issues. Well that and the fact we are so careless with the ball.

Wanna know why we lost yesterday? We made it a 7 point game with 12:44 to go. Our next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a layup, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover. We went from the 12:44 mark to the 9:00 timeout and took 1 shot and turned it over 5 times.

 

[bearcat8290]

I don't get it. We had a week to prepare for the 1-3-1. A defense everyone knew we would see. What do we do? Pass the ball back and forth and across court above the key. I'm surprised we did not have more turnovers. We either have to beat the front man of this zone off the dribble or get the ball to the elbow. Either or and we will beat that defense. We did neither. Once the ball goes into the elbow or the guard breaks down the defense, then we pass to forwards on the baseline when the three move to up to help. Don't get it.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

This is just absolute bullcrap. I posted the stats before so I'll post them again.


Of the teams that made the sweet 16 last year 10 had a AdjT of 150th or lower, 6 220 or lower.

4 elite 8 teams had an AdjT of 223 or slower.

Final 4 had 3 teams with AdjT of 245 or slower.

Sweet 16 teams with tempo in the top 100? 4, of those only 1 got to the elite 8 and 0 to the final 4.



That is what reality is. People can think whatever they want, but the facts are the facts. We did not lose because it was a slow game. We get beat in that game no matter how many possessions there are because we are flat out not good enough as a team right now. That's it.


Until Mick finds a way to coach offense we are going to be screwed. Until he learns to teach the team to attack a defense instead of throw lollipop passes for 20 seconds 30 feet from the basket, we're going to be screwed. Those are the real issues. Well that and the fact we are so careless with the ball.

Wanna know why we lost yesterday? We made it a 7 point game with 12:44 to go. Our next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a layup, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover. We went from the 12:44 mark to the 9:00 timeout and took 1 shot and turned it over 5 times.

great post!!!!!
I might also add they are the better team.

 

[UCBearcats]

up tempo looked good against cupcakes but against better competition we look very average. we do not make enough shots. Fact is we are the not a very athletic team either. Probably our three most athletic players are turnover machines. Ellis,Shaq and KJ.they combined for 11 of 16 TO's. Walking the ball up the floor versus running is not the issue. We got out played by a better team with better players. Their 1-3-1 zone killed us.

You know what else only looks good against cupcakes and never wins against a real team????? First one to 50 wins, Mick's favorite strategy which NEVER works against good teams.

I don't care about pace, toughness, turnovers or any of anyone else's excuses. You can't come into Cintas and score 55 points and leave with a win, it's as simple as that. I don't care why it happened I just care that Mick fixes it and finally once and for all realizes that his philosophies on basketball are dogshit.

 

[jimbearcat]

What a terrible game we played! We have no offensive consistency. Unless
Mick does something special with this team the rest of the season, then maybe
it's time to move on. We have all of our starters back from last year & we can't make baskets on a consistent basis. I AM SO FREAKN' TIRED OF HEARING YOU DON'T WIN WHEN YOU DON'T PLAY DEFENSE. "News Flash"
you don't win if you don't put the ball in the basket & out score the opponent.
For ten years we have had terrible, pathetic offensive teams. I'm sick and
tired of playing patsies prior to the conference season & then can't beat XU.
I have been a Mick supporter since day one but my patience has run out. We need to recruit shooters & basketball players with basketball skills. It's BS when Mick says today's players are taught the basics & he has to teach them at the college level. XU makes shots from all over the court, can dribble, rebound, play defense & beat the crap out of us on a consistent basis.
Just my humble, pissed off over losing to XU again, opinion.

 

[indydoug]

Stop and think about this. Has ANY team of UC 's caliber ( forget about what that is for a moment) EVER had a starting 5 who simply have not mastered or simply do not understand the art of......PASSING!!!! Whether it's finding the proper angle on an entry pass or passing out of a double team or passing against a 1-3-1 defense. That to me is the most remarkable aspect of not just this edition but most all of UC's teams under MICK. Sadly the best 2 passers on the team are the 2 freshmen and their minutes are limited because of supposed defensive liabilities. I would spend the next 10 practices on passing fundamentals and drills. Watching XU pass and UC was like watching a jr. High and college team. Sure they can make passes vs. cupcakes, but not quality teams. We have become XU 's bi**h.

 

[Doogle]

When you hold a very good team like Xavier to 65 points you should win the game. I don't care about defense, turnovers, rebounds, toughness or any of the other typical BS we always hear. Find a way to put the ball in the basket or you'll never have elite teams. It's as simple as that. Want to know why Xavier beats us ever year???? Because they score more points than we do. Want to know why Mack is a better coach than Mick??? Because he recruits guys who can score.

It's actually pretty f'ing simple, not sure why we always need to make it so difficult.

Bottom line. Guess we'll have to wait until the end of the season to pass full judgment.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Stop and think about this. Has ANY team of UC 's caliber ( forget about what that is for a moment) EVER had a starting 5 who simply have not mastered or simply do not understand the art of......PASSING!!!! Whether it's finding the proper angle on an entry pass or passing out of a double team or passing against a 1-3-1 defense. That to me is the most remarkable aspect of not just this edition but most all of UC's teams under MICK. Sadly the best 2 passers on the team are the 2 freshmen and their minutes are limited because of supposed defensive liabilities. I would spend the next 10 practices on passing fundamentals and drills. Watching XU pass and UC was like watching a jr. High and college team. Sure they can make passes vs. cupcakes, but not quality teams. We have become XU 's bi**h.

Cincinnati had 17 assists on 21 field goals. Xavier only had 14 assists.

 

[Doogle]

You guys are making some really astute points. And the more thought I give it, the more obvious it becomes. You win at this level with guards, or at least a player or two with the ability to do something off the bounce - drive, create a shot for himself or someone else, etc. Honestly, it looks like the only guy with a desire to do that is Shaq and unfortunately, his dribbling skills are eerily similar to mine?

Is Troy that guy? Honestly? Or is it like some have said here - that Troy is playing out of position and needs to be off the ball? I'm slowly getting to the point where I'd rather hand the keys over to Jenifer and Evans, live with their rookie mistakes, and let them roll. Jenifer at least shows some desire to make plays, along with some skill. Defense is an issue but it's not like Troy didn't get caught out of position 3-5 times yesterday.

Walk it up all you want but RUN AN OFFENSE.

 

[Doogle]

Cincinnati had 17 assists on 21 field goals. Xavier only had 14 assists.

I thought about this too NTS. UC was 17 assists, 16 TO. X was 14 assists on what, 10 TO? Plus their transition points and points off UCs turnovers was the difference. They made UC pay for their mistakes because they looked to do so.

In the box score, Troy had 10 and 6 with only 2 turnovers, which looks nice...I dunno. Would have to go back and watch the game again which ain't gonna happen.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I thought about this too NTS. UC was 17 assists, 16 TO. X was 14 assists on what, 10 TO? Plus their transition points and points off UCs turnovers was the difference. They made UC pay for their mistakes because they looked to do so.

In the box score, Troy had 10 and 6 with only 2 turnovers, which looks nice...I dunno. Would have to go back and watch the game again which ain't gonna happen.

We have talent, especially on offense. When we play inside out we are a pretty good offensive team. Mick may need to get checked up because something is off with him.

 

[Nayers]

I ran into a couple of older x fans at skyline after the game. They were very cordial and raved about Ellis. They said how they were worried after we came out of the half and we're playing hard. Then one of them asked why Ellis didn't play the last 7 minutes. I told them he did play, and they were amazed we didn't feed him in the post. Execution. We had the tools to win the game, hoping it all comes together soon so we even have a chance to play meaningful games in March.
Was planning on going to the conference tourney in March but if they are still playing this way then, there might be more day trips to the beach once we go out in round 1.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

This is just absolute bullcrap. I posted the stats before so I'll post them again.


Of the teams that made the sweet 16 last year 10 had a AdjT of 150th or lower, 6 220 or lower.

4 elite 8 teams had an AdjT of 223 or slower.

Final 4 had 3 teams with AdjT of 245 or slower.

Sweet 16 teams with tempo in the top 100? 4, of those only 1 got to the elite 8 and 0 to the final 4.



That is what reality is. People can think whatever they want, but the facts are the facts. We did not lose because it was a slow game. We get beat in that game no matter how many possessions there are because we are flat out not good enough as a team right now. That's it.


Until Mick finds a way to coach offense we are going to be screwed. Until he learns to teach the team to attack a defense instead of throw lollipop passes for 20 seconds 30 feet from the basket, we're going to be screwed. Those are the real issues. Well that and the fact we are so careless with the ball.

Wanna know why we lost yesterday? We made it a 7 point game with 12:44 to go. Our next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a layup, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover. We went from the 12:44 mark to the 9:00 timeout and took 1 shot and turned it over 5 times.

I've never said we need to be Top 100 in tempo, or even that close. At one point this year we were up 92 spots from last year into the 240 range. We'll never be better than that when team take a long time to get shots against us...I get that. But the crap we did yesterday fits us right back to where we were last year in the 330 range. Never gonna work. 0 easy baskets is never going to work. The only one we even tried to get, Clark got stripped and had it bounce off of him for a TO. That was it. And it wasn't bc of Xavier. It was bc of our crappy gameplan to beat them in that type of game...even though we know that way doesn't work with this group. We did the same thing vs Nebraska and GW but won bc those teams aren't that good. But Xavier is, Kentucky is, etc. That's the whole point. Mick has clearly learned nothing bc he decided losing the way we lost to Butler is unacceptable. It's too bad bc that actually gives us a chance.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

You guys are making some really astute points. And the more thought I give it, the more obvious it becomes. You win at this level with guards, or at least a player or two with the ability to do something off the bounce - drive, create a shot for himself or someone else, etc. Honestly, it looks like the only guy with a desire to do that is Shaq and unfortunately, his dribbling skills are eerily similar to mine?

Is Troy that guy? Honestly? Or is it like some have said here - that Troy is playing out of position and needs to be off the ball? I'm slowly getting to the point where I'd rather hand the keys over to Jenifer and Evans, live with their rookie mistakes, and let them roll. Jenifer at least shows some desire to make plays, along with some skill. Defense is an issue but it's not like Troy didn't get caught out of position 3-5 times yesterday.

Walk it up all you want but RUN AN OFFENSE.

I'm just worried that the longer Jenifer sits, the more he becomes like Mick's version of a Bearcat...which is like everyone else we've seen. Making players change their game to fit a certain style is foolish. If you can't live with Jenifer making an error of commission, don't recruit him.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We dropped from 248 to 282 in tempo...just from yesterday. And SHOCKER we we lucky to score 55 in the game that dropped us that far.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'm just worried that the longer Jenifer sits, the more he becomes like Mick's version of a Bearcat...which is like everyone else we've seen. Making player change their game to fit a certain style is foolish. If you can't live with Jenifer making an error of commission, don't recruit him.

Jenifer is no more ready to run this team then you or I am. He may eventually get there but not now. Many players are recruited for their ceiling. Few walk in and make a immediate impact. If he would have played 30 minutes yesterday we still would have lost.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I've never said we need to be Top 100 in tempo, or even that close. At one point this year we were up 92 spots from last year into the 240 range. We'll never be better than that when team take a long time to get shots against us...I get that. But the crap we did yesterday fits us right back to where we were last year in the 330 range. Never gonna work. 0 easy baskets is never going to work. The only one we even tried to get, Clark got stripped and had it bounce off of him for a TO. That was it. And it wasn't bc of Xavier. It was bc of our crappy gameplan to beat them in that type of game...even though we know that way doesn't work with this group. We did the same thing vs Nebraska and GW but won bc those teams aren't that good. But Xavier is, Kentucky is, etc. That's the whole point. Mick has clearly learned nothing bc he decided losing the way we lost to Butler is unacceptable. It's too bad bc that actually gives us a chance.

you and Mick have a different opinion of what will work best for this group. If your unhappy with his game plans I suggest you call Bohn. The one thing I will say is Mick is responsible for the talent. If he can not recruit people to win it may be time for a change. That should be decided at years end not now.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

We have talent, especially on offense. When we play inside out we are a pretty good offensive team. Mick may need to get checked up because something is off with him.

we have some strengths but we also have some glaring weaknesses.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jenifer is no more ready to run this team then you or I am. He may eventually get there but not now. Many players are recruited for their ceiling. Few walk in and make a immediate impact. If he would have played 30 minutes yesterday we still would have lost.

Never said he should've played 30 minutes. Not even close. But he should've played 12.