Yancy's Shelf Life Gone?

[UCalum08]

This is from the ESPN recap of the game, the last two paragraphs.

"Gates had another subpar game. Cincinnati's best inside scorer was suspended for a loss at Pitt for breaking team rules, and came off the bench during a 71-68 win at DePaul. He was the last player out of the locker room at halftime Sunday, got in the game for a minute and was benched again.

He sat angrily in his padded folding chair, gesturing and muttering to himself while others played his position. During timeouts, he stood in the back of the huddle and looked around the arena or stared at the floor."

Just embarrassing.

 

[Who Dey Time]

I don't disagree, but have you ever given any thought to just how bad we'll be if Gates doesn't play next year? Seriously.

Quick, who are you giving the 80 minutes of post play to? Even if Jackson gets 30 (I like Jackson, but that's even a lot to expect of him as a Soph) that still leaves 50 to go? You think this team has any chance with Ellis and Gaines each playing 25 minutes a game? I don't. Do move Shaq Thomas down, and play small? I don't see 20+ wins as likely trying that either?

Personally, I think Cronin has to figure out some way to keep Gates, and keep him motivated for next year. Even if the rest of this year is written of for him. Otherwise, he'll be the biggest lame duck coach in all of America next season. I know people won't like to hear that, but the truth hurts. If anybody can look at this roster, with 5 or 6 freshman coming in (NONE are universal top 100, much less top 75, 50, 25) and NO Yancy, and tell me that's a top half of the league BE team, then I want some of what you're smoking.

Gates simply is a non-factor at this point. When he plays, he is an average Big East post player if only because he does not have the want to be a great player. That is a shame but it falls squarely at his feet.

So to say that the program is screwed without him is not accurate IMO. I think Mick summed it up in the postgame on the radio when Chuck asked. The quote was something to the effect "why would I consider putting him in?"

What we have had without Gates is a more athletic, albeit undersized group that gives great effort. If Jackson can improve his offensive skills over the summer he can surely account for the 10 points that Gates gives you. That is when Yancy decides that he would like to play basketball that day.

 

[Lobot]

IMO Gates needs to go to Bishop land. Mick will be the coach next year period. Why? He has a top 25 class coming in that we can't afford to lose and we can't afford to buy Cronin out. His contract is up after year 6 and then we move on. I'm I making sense here?

 

[Who Dey Time]

IMO Gates needs to go to Bishop land. Mick will be the coach next year period. Why? He has a top 25 class coming in that we can't afford to lose and we can't afford to buy Cronin out. His contract is up after year 6 and then we move on. I'm I making sense here?

His contract doesn't run out until 2014. He was given a two year extension in 2009.

He won't be fired. It's silly to even discuss it even though many are frustrated.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

His contract doesn't run out until 2014. He was given a two year extension in 2009.

He won't be fired. It's silly to even discuss it even though many are frustrated.

Its honestly embarrassing that a University won't get rid of a coach because they are afraid to see what will happen with a new coach. Mike Thomas, with his MAC budgeting, might as well look for a new job too.

 

[Who Dey Time]

Its honestly embarrassing that a University won't get rid of a coach because they are afraid to see what will happen with a new coach. Mike Thomas, with his MAC budgeting, might as well look for a new job too.

There are a number of reasons why he will return:

First, he has improved every year. Some will argue that the progress isn't as quick as it could/should be but the progress is there nonetheless. Now, we have an opportunity to finish the rebuild and get to the NCAA.

Second, while a lot of fans don't want to hear this, Mick was asked to clean up the program off the court and he has done that. The APR has been raised to where they are not on that so-called watch list. It is also nice to go through a spring/summer and not hear about a UC basketball player being arrested.

Third, he best recruiting class is about to walk through the door. He will and should be given the opportunity to bring them in and further progress the program with them.

Finally, the ultimate reason.....$$$$$. There simply is no way that the university can fire a coach and then pay someone (a someone that would appease the "fans") when the budget is about as tight as it can be.

 

[ralph1950]

His contract doesn't run out until 2014. He was given a two year extension in 2009.

He won't be fired. It's silly to even discuss it even though many are frustrated.

Mick is fine. He has done a remarkable job rebuilding the UC basketball team from the destruction of the prior coaching regime. Mick did not miss a shot or free throw, and did not commit a lane violation today.

 

[WizardofWestwood]

Yancy should be gone. We are losing with him--we can lose without him. You can't afford to let this malcontent ruin a group that is playing with some passion. Just by his actions on the bench today--it is time to part ways.

Bottom line why Mick should be gone, 8000 fans in the seats for a huge Big East game. The lack of attendance is killing the athletic dept. Time for Mike Thomas to earn his money and make a tough decision.

 

[MDW79]

There are a number of reasons why he will return:

First, he has improved every year. Some will argue that the progress isn't as quick as it could/should be but the progress is there nonetheless. Now, we have an opportunity to finish the rebuild and get to the NCAA.

Second, while a lot of fans don't want to hear this, Mick was asked to clean up the program off the court and he has done that. The APR has been raised to where they are not on that so-called watch list. It is also nice to go through a spring/summer and not hear about a UC basketball player being arrested.

Third, he best recruiting class is about to walk through the door. He will and should be given the opportunity to bring them in and further progress the program with them.

Finally, the ultimate reason.....$$$$$. There simply is no way that the university can fire a coach and then pay someone (a someone that would appease the "fans") when the budget is about as tight as it can be.

1st point, No he hasn't. The only constant is the BE record. And last year we had a worse winning percentage. If there was any improvement, and you're reaching, it was minimal. This year, well if anyone thinks we'll have improved without a winning BE record, but only b/c of the OOC record, then they're mistaken. Also, when you inherit the "worst situation ever" (Which he did) improvement is a given in years 2, 3... I could take a team with 1 scholarship player, and improve the win total just by adding more scholarship players, and having guys in my system. Right? And I think the improvement stopped after year 3.

2nd point, Why can't another coach do the same? There is a plethora of coaches with clean records that can abide by the same rules and set the same standards.

3rd, Totally false. This is not his best class. On a number of levels. On sheer ranking, his 2nd class was his best. On individual talent, and star ratings, his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class all were more impressive. This class is ranked b/c of it's size. 1 LOW 4 star and 3 stars is not his best class.

4th, Can they afford to keep him though? What about the money they continue to lose in attendance? And for a program strapped for cash, they had enough to offer BK over 2 mil. Butch Jones reportably makes over 1 mil less than what we offered to keep Kelly here. Had we kept Kelly, we would have spent more money by year 2 of his new deal, than it would take to buy Mick out, and the savings of Butch Jones.

Lastly, what program only looks at the financial situation so myopically? Yeah it may cost us some money up front. But our program, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, is literally dying right now. Like it or not, this team is not landing a 4 seed any time soon. Heck, maybe any seed. And 10k+ fans are not going to be filling up the stands next year b/c Mick inked 18 3 star recruits. If we can't turn this around, and quick, Mick is a dead man walking, this year or next. There's no if's, and's, but's about it.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

What about losing the recruiting class and the 6 open 'ships it will create?

Not to mention, any possible defections from the current roster......which there would surely be.

Guess where that leaves us? Same spot as when MC inherited a mess.

You don't clean-up a mess by creating another mess (albeit, slightly smaller).

This season isn't over. Mick will be here next year.

Stop discussing it. Mick will be here.

Pause. Think about what I said... Inhale. Exhale. Inhale. Exhale. (some of you don't need to inhale again....just pass out and save us all the trouble. )

Now, say it with me: Mick will be here next year.

End of discussion.

 

[Little Danny]

1st point, No he hasn't. The only constant is the BE record. And last year we had a worse winning percentage. If there was any improvement, and you're reaching, it was minimal. This year, well if anyone thinks we'll have improved without a winning BE record, but only b/c of the OOC record, then they're mistaken. Also, when you inherit the "worst situation ever" (Which he did) improvement is a given in years 2, 3... I could take a team with 1 scholarship player, and improve the win total just by adding more scholarship players, and having guys in my system. Right? And I think the improvement stopped after year 3.

2nd point, Why can't another coach do the same? There is a plethora of coaches with clean records that can abide by the same rules and set the same standards.

3rd, Totally false. This is not his best class. On a number of levels. On sheer ranking, his 2nd class was his best. On individual talent, and star ratings, his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class all were more impressive. This class is ranked b/c of it's size. 1 LOW 4 star and 3 stars is not his best class.

4th, Can they afford to keep him though? What about the money they continue to lose in attendance? And for a program strapped for cash, they had enough to offer BK over 2 mil. Butch Jones reportably makes over 1 mil less than what we offered to keep Kelly here. Had we kept Kelly, we would have spent more money by year 2 of his new deal, than it would take to buy Mick out, and the savings of Butch Jones.

Lastly, what program only looks at the financial situation so myopically? Yeah it may cost us some money up front. But our program, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, is literally dying right now. Like it or not, this team is not landing a 4 seed any time soon. Heck, maybe any seed. And 10k+ fans are not going to be filling up the stands next year b/c Mick inked 18 3 star recruits. If we can't turn this around, and quick, Mick is a dead man walking, this year or next. There's no if's, and's, but's about it.

+1000. You know what, I am tired of hearing how UC has no money to fire coaches, improve facilities, whatever. What other program says this? If UC is really that desperate for cash, then move all the sports programs to the MAC or back to C-USA.

If Mick Cronin is the coach of this team next year UC should play their meaningless games at a local high school. They can save the costs to keep the lights on at the Shoe and to pay employees to take tickets and sweep the floor. Probably still wouldn't see out.

 

[MDW79]

What about losing the recruiting class and the 6 open 'ships it will create?

Not to mention, any possible defections from the current roster......which there would surely be.

Guess where that leaves us? Same spot as when MC inherited a mess.

You don't clean-up a mess by creating another mess (albeit, slightly smaller).

This season isn't over. Mick will be here next year.

Stop discussing it. Mick will be here.

Pause. Think about what I said... Inhale. Exhale. Inhale. Exhale. (some of you don't need to inhale again....just pass out and save us all the trouble. )

Now, say it with me: Mick will be here next year.

End of discussion.

Bolded part: You listen to much Lance, Alum. (I could hear his voice when I read that) I know, b/c that's where you got your (paraphrasing) You can rally behind or dig in against them" sig.

I don't think anyone is guaranteeing he's gone this year. I know I'm not. That would be foolish. But what I am saying is he most likely will be gone within the next two years.

Alum, you know enough that you should be pretty level headed about this team's chances moving forward. I'd honestly would like to hear your thoughts on a few things.

1.) Do you think our incoming class is inflated b/c of size? One 4 star, and four 3 stars does not strike me as top of league recruiting. Many BE teams are mainly comprised of 4 stars, a handful of 3's, and a 5 or two, or three. All we heard in Mick getting this year was names like Teague and Chane. We got neither. We got a bunch of guys outside the top 75. (No immediate, turn a program around help)

2.) Don't you think a mass exodous of transfers would be just as likely, and damaging, as guys wanting out of their LOI. (If Mick stays but gets axed later, we may see as much, or more long term damage.) People act like giving the year will cement these kids 4 years.

3.) Do you think this team has any chance of competing for a winning league record without Yancy next year, if he leaves.

4.) Even if he stays, do you think we at least have a CHANCE of a 6 seed or higher next year. Or a top 3rd BE finish?

5.) What grade would you give Mick and his staff for last year?

6.) If we fall short this year, what grade would you give this year? Higher than a C? D?

7.) When can we expect this team to be able to compete (Key word compete, not win) for a BE title. '11? '12? ....

8.) Just for shats and giggles, if Mick did get fired, what type of job do you think he could land? (Big 6 BCS, MAC, Horizon, DII)

Not even being a dick with those questions, be curious to hear some honest replies. Personally, I think it was 100% clear that AT BEST we have an average coach overall. If striving for mediocrity is the goal, then sign the guy to a 10 year deal. If actually having a national program is the goal, then the guy can't leave soon enough. He's simply not good enough. Not even close. Sounds crummy, but there's a reason dude make millions.

As sure as Alum can tell you Mick will be here next year, I can as sure tell you he won't be here much longer. He is not the answer, and will be gone sooner than later. Guaranteed. If that makes me less of a fan. because I'll admit our coach is way over his head. so be it.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

1.) Do you think our incoming class is inflated b/c of size? One 4 star, and four 3 stars does not strike me as top of league recruiting. Many BE teams are mainly comprised of 4 stars, a handful of 3's, and a 5 or two, or three. All we heard in Mick getting this year was names like Teague and Chane. We got neither. We got a bunch of guys outside the top 75. (No immediate, turn a program around help)

Yes. I think, similar to the 07 class, it is rated highly due to sheer numbers. The class is probably Mick's best but honestly that isn't saying much. With guys like Teague, Behanan and Amir Williams... I think Mick sold to the administration that he would land a great 2011 class (maybe why he got that extention?) and while this is a decent class (I like Shaq and Davis a lot...don't know too much about the others) it certainly hasn't panned out like we thought.



2.) Don't you think a mass exodous of transfers would be just as likely, and damaging, as guys wanting out of their LOI. (If Mick stays but gets axed later, we may see as much, or more long term damage.) People act like giving the year will cement these kids 4 years.

Yeah I agree, I think that transfers and releasing of LOI's happens with coaching changes. I think it will hurt to let Mick go, but it is a necessary step to better the program in the long run, IMO. We should have taken a page out of St. Johns and Providence's book and hire a new coach the year before a massive exiting class. You let the guy play with "house money" and with veterans you will probably be fairly successful (Providence made the NIT and the Jonnies are in position to make the NCAA's). Unfortunately we didn't do that so we'll have to struggle at some point.

3.) Do you think this team has any chance of competing for a winning league record without Yancy next year, if he leaves.

No.

4.) Even if he stays, do you think we at least have a CHANCE of a 6 seed or higher next year. Or a top 3rd BE finish?

No. and No.

5.) What grade would you give Mick and his staff for last year?

D+ (got them to play well in Maui and Big East tourney, so he doesn't fail)

6.) If we fall short this year, what grade would you give this year? Higher than a C? D?

Probably a D or D- (assuming they miss the tourney)

7.) When can we expect this team to be able to compete (Key word compete, not win) for a BE title. '11? '12? ....

Umm...probably in '12 or '13?? IDK if Mick is gone it will be a while after that

8.) Just for shats and giggles, if Mick did get fired, what type of job do you think he could land? (Big 6 BCS, MAC, Horizon, DII)

Assistant coach in a Big 6 conference then may get a shot again with a MAC/Horizon level program years down the road

Not even being a dick with those questions, be curious to hear some honest replies. Personally, I think it was 100% clear that AT BEST we have an average coach overall. If striving for mediocrity is the goal, then sign the guy to a 10 year deal. If actually having a national program is the goal, then the guy can't leave soon enough. He's simply not good enough. Not even close. Sounds crummy, but there's a reason dude make millions.

As sure as Alum can tell you Mick will be here next year, I can as sure tell you he won't be here much longer. He is not the answer, and will be gone sooner than later. Guaranteed. If that makes me less of a fan. because I'll admit our coach is way over his head. so be it.

I also 100% agree with the last two paragraphs. 5 years is a lot in the eyes of recruits and the years have flown by pretty quickly, we could blink and be 10 years off of the last tourney appearance.

 

[swg]

The question isn't whether MC will be the UC coach. Only the AD knows that for sure (or Wyler).
The real question is whether the players have bought into him. From what I've seen, not so much.
Also, a lot of fans are done with MC (and Yancy). That alone will only delay the inevitable.

Regaredless of what happens, it's not good.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

The question isn't whether MC will be the UC coach. Only the AD knows that for sure (or Wyler).
The real question is whether the players have bought into him. From what I've seen, not so much.
Also, a lot of fans are done with MC (and Yancy). That alone will only delay the inevitable.

Regaredless of what happens, it's not good.

If this year plays out how alot of people imagine, it will not be good news....

 

[Lobot]

We're going to have to suffer one more year in order to get this top25 recruiting class in here.

 

[MDW79]

We're going to have to suffer one more year in order to get this top25 recruiting class in here.

And that's why Mike Thomas needs to be fired as well. I'd say probably about half our fanbase knew what he didn't have the foresight to. For an AD to truly think the odds of this year going well enough to improve a worsening situation after last year was rather stupid.

Myself, and just about everyone and the brother predicted if we kept him, we'd be stuck with him for two years, and have a lame duck coach with a WHOLE bunch of freshman.

Like I said last year, risk vs reward. Risk, see above. Reward, play out your ass and earn a 9 seed. Not worth it.

A new coach would have had enough time on this class. Heck, he couldn't have filled a couple spots, and sacrificed a year of depth, for better recruiting and evening out the classes. That beats what's about to happen. 3+ years of rebuilding.

Mike Thomas = Over his head too. Lucked out on Kelly, and showed his lack of imagination by going to the same well with Jones. (Not that it can't work, but what program does that? He's treated CMU like the local Honda dealer) The guy needs to go take over a Buffalo, Tulsa, Evansville, a SUNY school. He has no business being a part of this program if this Cronin situation doesn't do a complete 180.

 

[Lobot]

I won't disagree with you but it needs to happen after the end of 2012.

 

[Who Dey Time]

And that's why Mike Thomas needs to be fired as well. I'd say probably about half our fanbase knew what he didn't have the foresight to. For an AD to truly think the odds of this year going well enough to improve a worsening situation after last year was rather stupid.

Myself, and just about everyone and the brother predicted if we kept him, we'd be stuck with him for two years, and have a lame duck coach with a WHOLE bunch of freshman.

Like I said last year, risk vs reward. Risk, see above. Reward, play out your ass and earn a 9 seed. Not worth it.

A new coach would have had enough time on this class. Heck, he couldn't filled a couple spots, and sacrificed a year of depth, for better recruiting and evening out the class. That beats what's about to happen. 3+ years of rebuilding.

Mike Thomas = Over his head too. Lucked out on Kelly, and showed his lack of imagination by going to the same well with Jones. (Not that it can't work, but what program does that? He's treated CMU like the local Honda dealer) The guy needs to go take over a Buffalo, Tulsa, Evansville, a SUNY school.

Lame duck coach? Completely ridiculous. A coach with a contract for 3 more years isn't going to be considered lame duck next season. That is you holding on to your theory from last year where you said fire him now or you can't until 2012.

Fact is an AD can and will fire a coach whenever, recruiting be damned. Thomas, to his credit IMO, has seen the progress being made and sees what has been largely touted as a very good recruiting class coming in and will continue to support his coach....as he should.

Year 5 and we have now reached the point where NCAA bids are expected. Some say last year was the year but I have always disagreed with that. Hopefully the team fights back and finishes strong however, either way, I'd say that Mick is going to get an opportunity to succeed with this new class and, if the results don't come in with them a change will be made. But we are nowhere close to that day.

 

[MDW79]

Lame duck coach? Completely ridiculous. A coach with a contract for 3 more years isn't going to be considered lame duck next season.

If we do not make the tourney this year Mick Cronin will be on the top of every single Hot Seat list you see, I guarantee it. If we miss out, attendance will continue to decline, and the only thing that will save him is at MINIMUM a tourney appearance. And that may not even be enough, without a win or two. Heck, Mick has been mentioned on the hot seat at the start of this year. I'd say next year, he'll be the #1 coach in all of America likely to be fired by year's end. And he'll have to try to recruit with that burden. (I'm convinced our incoming class has suffered a tad b/c of this stigma already. We struck out on all the big names. And remember, we left a spot open this year b/c we couldn't get anyone good enough to fill it, and we were recruiting it all along.)

Most of this fanbase is becoming apathetic more than angry. That is the WORST thing that can happen.

With Mick needing results next year, with 5 or 6 newcomers, and none in the top 75, that makes him, in all likelyhood, a lameduck coach. Do you really believe this is shaping up to be a really strong team next year? If so, please explain. Where do you see the improvement coming from to get over the hump right away?

Also, you do realize all coaches have years on the deals, right? It's for recruiting. Coaches get fired all the time with years left, and in actuality 90% probably still have time when they canned. Just b/c Mick is signed through 2014 does not make him any less on the hot seat.