Wow, Deveroes is about to start up

[BearcatMick]

you are hopeless to discuss anything with. i don't know why i tried.

The discussion was fine until you used subjective quotes to bash the legacy of a bearcat that has given his heart and soul to this program. I don't know why you just can't admit that dion was crucial for this team last year just like bishop was the year before

 

[Nomadic1]

like I said I liked dixon for what he was, I just don't see what you see in him. you make him sound like a dominating force with the way you are describing him game.

I never said he was a dominating force.

He made plays that won us games.
He had a lot of speed, good hesitation dribbles, spins and hops.
He could get by his guy with moves and his lateral quickness. Both with the ball and without, something the new kids don't really have; for the most part.

A dominating player takes over games all the time. He wasn't that guy, but he did ice games and pull off wins, that we don't get without his skill set.

 

[TheLongHaul]

you are hopeless to discuss anything with. i don't know why i tried.

me either. the guy is a Ralph clone who does nothing but further degrade this board.

This thread has gone crazy. Dion was a great Bearcat and played with all heart! He helped move this program forward in a lot of ways, there should be ABSOLUTELY no bashing of this young man on a Bearcat board. I can not believe this is going on.

No one was bashing him, some just said he can be replaced. My goodness some of you are so sensitive. Lollipops for everyone!

Dixon was definitely a plus to the program in a time when things were bad. He was a good athlete, not explosive. Good ball handler, good at getting to the rim when he focused on it. Not a good shooter at all and I wouldn't say he was clutch either. Overall he had a very good career at UC and if UC is going to continue to rise to an elite program they have to not only find someone to replace him but someone that is an improvement.

 

[dp3113]

The discussion was fine until you used subjective quotes to bash the legacy of a bearcat that has given his heart and soul to this program. I don't know why you just can't admit that dion was crucial for this team last year just like bishop was the year before

because you are trying to say that i am arguing something i am not.

again, i said ZERO- absolutely nothing- about whether or not he was the heart and soul or important player. all i did was quote cronin. my comments were not directed at his contribution to the team. i said nothing derogatory or defamatory towards dixon or his place in uc history.

you made a comment that runs 100% contrary to what cronin publicly said for 3 years. i just quoted cronin. don't be mad at me- be mad at mick.

 

[Cpaw]

No one was bashing him, some just said he can be replaced. My goodness some of you are so sensitive. Lollipops for everyone!

If saying someone can't shoot and made dumb decisions is not "bashing" then what is it called? I really am not that sensitive, I just get frustrated with people saying these critical, non-productive comments about a player who just graduated.

 

[CPAW29]

he missed alot of freethrows that continue games and wasnt he the one that missed a layup that could have beat WVU?

 

[TheLongHaul]

If saying someone can't shoot and made dumb decisions is not "bashing" then what is it called? I really am not that sensitive, I just get frustrated with people saying these critical, non-productive comments about a player who just graduated.

he was a career 27% 3 point shooter with a career fg% of 37%. For a SG that is pretty terrible, so saying he can't shoot isn't far from the truth, like it or not. He did make plenty of dumb decisions as well, though I personally never thought that was one of his weaknesses. Still the argument could be made and I wouldn't consider that bashing. Now if he said he was lazy or selfish, then I'd consider it bashing.

 

[Nomadic1]

he missed alot of freethrows that continue games and wasnt he the one that missed a layup that could have beat WVU?

He also made freethrows to beat Georgetown the first time and helped us with stand UConn's Napier going ballistic(along with SK's long ball) he was the reason we put Xavier away the year before, as he exploded in the second half, he buried Dayton as well...
He was the only guy we could use to spell Wright and none of the other guards have shown they could play the point.
The guy defensively had 17 blocks and 60 steals. You can't seriously tell me, you expect the new kids to contribute that much as sophmores.

I'm sorry, but what makes people think, that these kids who couldn't get over a bucket a game last year, most of which didn't play against real competition(save for Sanders, who I don't consider a guard) are going to make up for him? There's nothing supporting that idea right now. I think Thomas will be an impact player, but he's not going to run the offense. He's purely a SF obviously.


That's not even beginning to mention what was lost with Yancy leaving...
I think the back court will be good, as Cash is a great point guard, Parker and SK will handle themselves fine. That underclassmen can't have a lot expected of them, at this point.
I think Thomas and Sanders will contribute, I'm not sure what to expect from Guyn and Davis though.


To Guyn's credit, he is a really good perimeter defender.

 

[Nomadic1]

he was a career 27% 3 point shooter with a career fg% of 37%. For a SG that is pretty terrible, so saying he can't shoot isn't far from the truth, like it or not. He did make plenty of dumb decisions as well, though I personally never thought that was one of his weaknesses. Still the argument could be made and I wouldn't consider that bashing. Now if he said he was lazy or selfish, then I'd consider it bashing.

This is college ball man, no one counts the "career stats" of anybody. That's retarded. How you played as a frosh, does not mean anything.
His last 2 years, he averaged a little under 40% from the floor and about 30% from 3. He shot way too many 3's last season. The biggest benefit though, was his ability to get to the line. He shot twice as many free throws as SK and way more than Wright.

I imagine Parker will make up for some of that though. Provided he doesn't miss any games again.

 

[CPAW29]

Nomadic you are really contradicting yourself right now. You are defending dixon with a passion.when somebody make true facts you twist everything.now you say what you do as a freshman doesn't matter

 

[BearcatMick]

because you are trying to say that i am arguing something i am not.

again, i said ZERO- absolutely nothing- about whether or not he was the heart and soul or important player. all i did was quote cronin. my comments were not directed at his contribution to the team. i said nothing derogatory or defamatory towards dixon or his place in uc history.

you made a comment that runs 100% contrary to what cronin publicly said for 3 years. i just quoted cronin. don't be mad at me- be mad at mick.

What mick said publicly was very different than what he really thought of dion. It was his way to get the most out of Dixon. I don't understand why you have it out for dion? Mick LOVED Dion as a player and a person

Nomad has been on point.

 

[TheLongHaul]

This is college ball man, no one counts the "career stats" of anybody. That's retarded. How you played as a frosh, does not mean anything.
His last 2 years, he averaged a little under 40% from the floor and about 30% from 3. He shot way too many 3's last season. The biggest benefit though, was his ability to get to the line. He shot twice as many free throws as SK and way more than Wright.

I imagine Parker will make up for some of that though. Provided he doesn't miss any games again.

ha ha, yes, using someones career averages is retarded, yet you selectively choose his last two years to base your argument. how about his senior year? 37% fg which happens to be less than his career average, and 26% 3 point percentage which happens to be less than his career average and is a flat out awful percentage for a shooting guard, not to mention that he averaged 5/game (if that doesn't speak of his decision making process I don't know what does).

He was very good at getting to the line. No complaints from me about that.

 

[Nomadic1]

Nomadic you are really contradicting yourself right now. You are defending dixon with a passion.when somebody make true facts you twist everything.now you say what you do as a freshman doesn't matter

How am I contradicting myself?
I don't think you're looking at what I'm saying in context.
I'm not saying the last class of frosh won't improve.
I'm not even saying the team can't improve over time.
I'm just saying, nobody on this team(in the way of guards) brings the positives he had to the table.

When I remarked that a player's freshman year doesn't matter, I was referring to statistics. Not height, speed, leaping ability etc..
Kenyon Martin was not the same kind of offensive player he was in his freshman year, when he left. Anyone saying that, obviously never watched him.
That might work for league players, but not for the NCAA.

 

[Nomadic1]

ha ha, yes, using someones career averages is retarded, yet you selectively choose his last two years to base your argument. how about his senior year? 37% fg which happens to be less than his career average, and 26% 3 point percentage which happens to be less than his career average and is a flat out awful percentage for a shooting guard, not to mention that he averaged 5/game (if that doesn't speak of his decision making process I don't know what does).

He was very good at getting to the line. No complaints from me about that.

That's not exceptionism, players are better as upperclassmen than underclassmen. That's common sense.
Statistics are like women; mirrors of purest virtue and truth, or like whores to use as one pleases.
He got to the line to shoot 42 more ft's last season, than the one prior.
That means he got hacked more, his percentage is a combination of him getting hacked and the offense demanding he shoots more. Not his inability as a shooter. His 3 point shooting was bleh, I'll give you that. The main problem imo, being the offense we ran. He shouldn't have popped off that many 3's. Normally, in prior years, he wouldn't have.
We played without as many sets and in a non-glacial offense, that looked more like Deveroes than a college team.

 

[dp3113]

What mick said publicly was very different than what he really thought of dion. It was his way to get the most out of Dixon. I don't understand why you have it out for dion? Mick LOVED Dion as a player and a person

Nomad has been on point.

hopeless. you don't read.

 

[TheLongHaul]

How am I contradicting myself?
I don't think you're looking at what I'm saying in context.
I'm not saying the last class of frosh won't improve.
I'm not even saying the team can't improve over time.
I'm just saying, nobody on this team(in the way of guards) brings the positives he had to the table.

When I remarked that a player's freshman year doesn't matter, I was referring to statistics. Not height, speed, leaping ability etc..
Kenyon Martin was not the same kind of offensive player he was in his freshman year, when he left. Anyone saying that, obviously never watched him.
That might work for league players, but not for the NCAA.

how can you say that nobody (the freshman in particular) on the team brings the positives he had to the table and then go on to say that it's essentially dumb to use a players freshman year as a barometer? now you've contradicted yourself in a whole 'nother way.

That's not exceptionism, players are better as upperclassmen than underclassmen. That's common sense.

what on gods earth are you talking about? you used his last two years as your baseline and said it was dumb to use career averages. okay, well his senior year was statistically one of his worst years. any way you slice it he was a bad shooter. he had one good year shooting out of four. that makes the one year an anomaly.

Statistics are like women; mirrors of purest virtue and truth, or like whores to use as one pleases.

yet you go on to use statistics in your very next statement?

He got to the line to shoot 42 more ft's last season, than the one prior.
That means he got hacked more, his percentage is a combination of him getting hacked and the offense demanding he shoots more. Not his inability as a shooter.

what!!!!!!! you are trying to use the number of times he has shot a ft as a correlation to why his fg% are terrible? sorry dude, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

His 3 point shooting was bleh, I'll give you that. The main problem imo, being the offense we ran. He shouldn't have popped off that many 3's. Normally, in prior years, he wouldn't have.
We played without as many sets and in a non-glacial offense, that looked more like Deveroes than a college team.

ummm, yea, it was the offense [/sarcasm]

oh, btw, btw - he averaged one more 3 pt attempt a game than he did his freshman year. you remember the offense from his freshman year? the offense never demanded him to shoot more, he chose to do it. Dixon flat out liked to shoot 3's and thought he was actually good at it. he never consistently played to his strength, which was attacking the basket.

 

[Nomadic1]

how can you say that nobody (the freshman in particular) on the team brings the positives he had to the table and then go on to say that it's essentially dumb to use a players freshman year as a barometer? now you've contradicted yourself in a whole 'nother way.

Are you nuts? You can get a jump shot in 4 years in college, you can't gain a ridiculous leap or speed if you don't have the kind of physiology to allow for such athleticism in the first place.
You may adapt a better handle, but you're not going to become that much quicker in terms of lateral quickness.
Some people have talents that others don't. Cashmere Wright is never going to be a tall point guard, Sean Kilpatrick is never going to leap over a 7' footer, at the full extension of his jump shot, at the height of his jump and block it. It's not physically possible.


Likewise, Gelawn Guyn isn't going to have the same vision as Dixon being like 3 inches shorter. He isn't going to grow longer arms, be as fast, post up and it's going to take him years, before he has the kind of skills with his handle, to create his own shot. That's just reality my friend.

what on gods earth are you talking about? you used his last two years as your baseline and said it was dumb to use career averages.

What on God's earth are you talking about? Are you suggesting people don't play their best as upperclassmen? Do you watch basketball?

okay, well his senior year was statistically one of his worst years. any way you slice it he was a bad shooter. he had one good year shooting out of four. that makes the one year an anomaly.

Hardly. You have to use context. His shooting suffered, because he was being hacked! Also because he had to shoot more, the more you shoot, the more you'll miss. People get tired when they work harder over the course of a game. His role and his minutes and the amount of contact he took changed. His average from the floor only dropped slightly.

yet you go on to use statistics in your very next statement?

Again context.

what!!!!!!! you are trying to use the number of times he has shot a ft as a correlation to why his fg% are terrible? sorry dude, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

Okay, apparently getting hacked doesn't affect your shot LOL
Why don't we do an experiment? You go take 10 lay ups and then I'll come in, have you take 10 more and foul you as you're going to the basket.
Do you think it'll affect your percentage?
Context... Like I said. You can't just look at a number and expect to know the full story behind it.

 

[catsfan4life]

no one wants to read all of you bitch all day

 

[dp3113]

no one wants to read all of you bitch all day

agreed. i apologize for my role. i should have stopped responding a long while back.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Nomadic1 I agree with most of what you have said regarding Dixon, but I don't think statistically you can count some of his low shooting percentages to getting hacked. Most of his free throws came late in the game where he was the ball handler and not coming off of shots. He took plenty of open looks and served up plenty of bricks. With that said I'm not here to knock Dixon. His intangibles will be missed and mostly his free throw shooting late in games and his ability to bring the ball up the floor when Cash was out.

As far as athleticism goes, I think Shaq will more than make up for that. I can't wait to see him develop. Dixon was explosive in the open floor, but rarely showed it in the half-court vs. good competition. I actually thought Parker showed more "explosiveness" in the half-court, although aggressiveness is the better word for Parker. In Dixon's defense I think he had the ability he just didn't use it as it either wasn't in the gameplan or he just didn't want to seem selfish in trying to take his man off the dribble.

Hopefully Cash and/or Kilpatrick can give us that clutch free throw shooting late in games. Or Parker even. I'm not sure I want the ball in Kilpatrick's hands, so I think this one falls to Cash to step up. I think Davis will develop into a complete player and will be one that can protect the ball, just not sure it will be as a sophomore.